New mains charger problems

welshwestie · Oct 4, 2015

Put a fuse between the solar controller and battery. When on ehu, just pull the fuse.

welshwestie · Oct 4, 2015

Hubble said:
Thanks Welshwestie
I still haven't heard back from Monbat.
I've uploaded the specs for the charger. I'm still learning about how chargers work but I think you're right. This charger is supposed to float at 13.5v but the one I've got is supplying a float charge of 12.8 or 12.9.
Regardless of whether this charger is a good match for the battery, it's not doing what it's supposed to do. Would you agree?
Thanks again for your help.

Had a look at the pdf you provided, and I assume you are using Mode 2, which is its gel battery setting.

Couple of things spring to my mind, 14.7v is for some manufacturers a little high for the bulk stage, but for others it will be fine. Monbat should clear this up. Your reported float is wrong, as it should be higher.

How is your float being measured, is it a reading from the charger, or elsewhere?

sidepod · Oct 5, 2015

T4WFA said:
Can I slightly hi-jack this thread and see if I can understand what triggers the 'plug' symbol to be displayed on the LCD? Is it simply sensing the higher voltage (14ish) from the charger? If so, why doesn't it show with just the charge from the alternator when the engine runs?
Are you getting the 'plug' symbol with the replacement charger?
I'm asking because I've yet to get to understand why my plug symbol comes and goes every 5 seconds when on hook up SINCE I had my solar panel fitted (and the sun is out.....In the dark there is no problem).
I'm worried my charger (from the mains) is switching on and off every few seconds and will burn out.

Ah the elusive plug icon. No idea. Comes and goes acording to wind direction.

TwentyOneThirtyFive · Oct 5, 2015

T4WFA said:
Can I slightly hi-jack this thread and see if I can understand what triggers the 'plug' symbol to be displayed on the LCD? Is it simply sensing the higher voltage (14ish) from the charger? If so, why doesn't it show with just the charge from the alternator when the engine runs?
Are you getting the 'plug' symbol with the replacement charger?
I'm asking because I've yet to get to understand why my plug symbol comes and goes every 5 seconds when on hook up SINCE I had my solar panel fitted (and the sun is out.....In the dark there is no problem).
I'm worried my charger (from the mains) is switching on and off every few seconds and will burn out.

My understanding is that the 'plug' symbol is triggered by a 5v output from the charger.

OEM chargers seem to have two variants.

1. The plug is displayed whenever the van is on hookup. Early vans with original chargers seem to have this characteristic.

2. The plug is displayed whenever the van is on hookup and the batteries are fast charging. Once they reach full charge and the charger is trickle charging, the plug symbol disappears. Late vans and those who have replaced the charger with a newer OEM charger seem to display this characteristic.

Is the solar setup is confusing the charger into thinking the batteries are full/not full? Measure the output of the solar controller / battery voltage and see if there are fluctuations?

dan

2into1 · Oct 5, 2015

Thanks Dan. Prior to the solar, I've never noticed the plug disappearing (but I'll check with the van under cover!) so that would imply the earlier charger (Van is 1999).......but my 'problem' would be better explained by the described behaviour of the later charger!

Pod, does your comment imply yours comes and goes? Have you got solar?

sidepod · Oct 5, 2015

It does seem to come and go but then, reading what Dan says that may explain. I've never really monitored it against battery state.
I always just assumed it was simply a warning/indication for hook up.Plug in and it comes on, unplug and it's gone. Lets face it, unless you plug in a hair drier you've no actualy proof the hook up is live.
I cant understand why we would need to know if it's fast charging or trickling?

I always leave my bus plugged in when not in use. Thinking about it, I rarely see the icon when I go to unplug which would support Dans theory.

Does it apply to just leisure output or the starter also?

Pod

Hubble · Oct 5, 2015

welshwestie said:
Had a look at the pdf you provided, and I assume you are using Mode 2, which is its gel battery setting.

Couple of things spring to my mind, 14.7v is for some manufacturers a little high for the bulk stage, but for others it will be fine. Monbat should clear this up. Your reported float is wrong, as it should be higher.

How is your float being measured, is it a reading from the charger, or elsewhere?

I got a reply from Monbat this morning, and I've attached the datasheet.
Bulk stage requires between 14.1 and 15.1 (but recommended 14.4) so I'm in the right ballpark at least.
My float of 12.9/12.8 v was according to the charger display. Cab display and multimeter on the battery itself both gave me 12.7. I think it's time I sent it back to the manufacturer, it's not doing what it should.
(Btw, yes, it's on mode 2)

welshwestie · Oct 5, 2015

Hello Hubble. Couple of things, the battery you have is an AGM, not a GEL battery, but they are often grouped together as being the same, they are not. Some chargers will have three settings, one for Wet batteries, AGM, and then then GEL.

With your float of 12.7, you will never fully charge the battery. Also the bulk stage may be too high.

With the float being low, it suggests that the charger is faulty, though I do wonder where the charger is installed, as this could be voltage drop and the wire gauge isn't sufficient.

welshwestie · Oct 5, 2015

Our California is a 1997 model, and when plugged in to EHU, the plug icon remains on at all times.

Hubble · Oct 5, 2015

welshwestie said:
Hello Hubble. Couple of things, the battery you have is an AGM, not a GEL battery, but they are often grouped together as being the same, they are not. Some chargers will have three settings, one for Wet batteries, AGM, and then then GEL.

With your float of 12.7, you will never fully charge the battery. Also the bulk stage may be too high.

With the float being low, it suggests that the charger is faulty, though I do wonder where the charger is installed, as this could be voltage drop and the wire gauge isn't sufficient.

The charger is in exactly the same place as the original westfalia charger I removed (under the fridge).
Am I right in thinking that the charger determines how full the battery is by looking at the voltage?
It thinks the battery is 'Full' yet also thinks the voltage is 12.8v. Could that be a voltage drop thing or just a dodgy charger? Just asking, I'm no expert on electrics.

welshwestie · Oct 5, 2015

Hello Hubble, it shouldn't consider the battery full at 12.8v. I think there's a problem with the charger.

David j · Jan 28, 2016

TwentyOneThirtyFive said:
My understanding is that the 'plug' symbol is triggered by a 5v output from the charger.

OEM chargers seem to have two variants.

1. The plug is displayed whenever the van is on hookup. Early vans with original chargers seem to have this characteristic.

2. The plug is displayed whenever the van is on hookup and the batteries are fast charging. Once they reach full charge and the charger is trickle charging, the plug symbol disappears. Late vans and those who have replaced the charger with a newer OEM charger seem to display this characteristic.

Is the solar setup is confusing the charger into thinking the batteries are full/not full? Measure the output of the solar controller / battery voltage and see if there are fluctuations?

dan

David j · Jan 28, 2016

Hi...im also in search of the lost plug symbol ...thanks for your response re the batteries being full ..I'm gonna run mine down and try it ...do you know what the little sliding switch on the charger does ...it's got a white line on it .