10 year finance - yes or no?

[simplek1]

hi, we are looking at getting a Beach. as i have read on quite a few occasions throughout the forum, we started with looking at a caravelle, then moved onto a T5 and now we have ended up settling on a Beach. Our situation is we are expecting baby number 4 - 13,10 and 7 currently and the Caravelle seemed a really practical option - we have a 4 birth caravan so the concept of then using the Caravelle as a Bedroom, for our older sons became an option...but a Beach would make this a far better option. The only way we can do it is to have finance, we have 0 deposit, and want to have a payment around £500 - this is possible with a 10 year finance option, but we wondered how sensible this is to do?

 

[Lewis]

interest payments will be much higher this way as the 10yr HP has a higher interest rate than PCP. Always depends on your circumstances but 42 month PCP then pay the balloon with a personal loan is my suggestion (and method).

That being said for the PCP payments to be circa £500 you would need a 10k deposit.

Taking out such a large amount of finance with little or no deposit does seem unusual though. You need to bear in mind the potential for significant servicing and maintenance costs on top of the monthly payment as the vehicle nears 10yrs old. I assume that it'll be your daily driver so the 5yr 80 or 150k warranty would seem like a good idea.

Money aside - you'll be buying into something special!

 

[OCCALI]

hi, we are looking at getting a Beach. as i have read on quite a few occasions throughout the forum, we started with looking at a caravelle, then moved onto a T5 and now we have ended up settling on a Beach. Our situation is we are expecting baby number 4 - 13,10 and 7 currently and the Caravelle seemed a really practical option - we have a 4 birth caravan so the concept of then using the Caravelle as a Bedroom, for our older sons became an option...but a Beach would make this a far better option. The only way we can do it is to have finance, we have 0 deposit, and want to have a payment around £500 - this is possible with a 10 year finance option, but we wondered how sensible this is to do?

Lewis has given some brilliant advice. Who doesn't want a California? But they are HUGELY, HUGELY EXPENSIVE machines and it's easy to get carried away when researching them and thinking that you can afford one.

With 0 deposit and a baby on the way think hard about if it's really wise to buy such a LUXURY item at this exact time.

I'd love one now especially as my kids are 4 and 6 but there is no way I can justify or really afford one, probably right up until I retire!

Somethings you just can't afford....... That's no problem.

I'll carry on with the tent in France every year having magical holidays, on the beach all day, with guaranteed sunshine......and we'll have no less of a holiday than people in a California. ....

 

[Meoncoast]

No, in my view 10 years is too long for a van/car. We would have loved a camper van years ago esp when kids were younger but we could not afford one at that time with out putting a mill stone around our necks. There are other things on the market you could use to tow a caravan and for 2 to sleep in that are much affordable

 

[andyinluton]

PCP with a balloon could end up being a disaster - what do you do at the end of the PCP if no-one will lend you the money to pay off the lump sum? Also a PCP with then a loan you still end up paying over ten years.

The cheapest way of borrowing large sums always used to be extend the mortgage I don't know if that is still the case or possible in your circumstances.

If you go in with your eyes open a 10 year finance deal may work for you - but while looking at the numbers see if you can manage to cut it to 9 or 8 years you may be surmised how much little extra it would be per month. I would recommend gap insurance for as long as you can get it - if the van was written off in the early years your finance settlement figure could be a lot more than the insurance payout.

You haven't mentioned mileage 10 years if you are doing up to say max 10-12k a year isn't unreasonable if you intend doing 25k miles a year it would be madness.

What would you do if you didn't buy the van? spend the same sort of money on a car every month? in which case the van probably makes sense.

With the way the VW prices are going up if you don't buy it now you will only end up paying more for the same thing next year.

 

[Meoncoast]

http://www.moneysupermarket.com/loans/calculator/

take a deep breath

 

[simplek1]

Hi everyone thank you so much for your replies, I wasn't get notifications to say you'd commented so I got a nice surprise when I checked this morning

I'm not sure if I'm mad but whenever we do PCP on cars we always put in 0 deposit purely because you never end up getting anything back at the end of it - we've never finished a PCP though we always part ex before the period ends, so any deposit would definitely be lost.

In regards to HP I would be much more willing to do a deposit as we would be chipping away at the balance of a Beach that in the end we would own - I need to look into it but instead of saving for a deposit initially and delaying the purchase, we could make overpayments once we have the van, so the end result is still the same but doing it retrospectively.

We have found an ex demonstrator that will cost us £540 ish with 0 deposit over 10 years - if we do a PCP the balloon we are left with is £21500 at 4 years old and the monthly payment is £670 - so I've worked out (roughly) that it will take us 5 years on HP to get to the same point so if we did need to get out of it we could pretty much guarantee it would be worth enough to settle the finance at that point.

We have a discovery at present that we pay £617 for, with extortionate servicing, taxing, economy and threat of LR repair bills at it is a '61 plate. The initial brief when we set out was to save £200 a month with whatever replaced the discovery, which the Beach certainly will, but it's just the big 10 year milestone...

Andyinluton - it will be my car, I have a shop so it will be used for the school run, commuting to work, and the odd delivery - I do approx 250 miles a week. And then going away. An excellent point that we don't have to do the full 10 years...

Meoncoast - what else would you recommend, we are certainly open to options

Occali - you struck a chord with me at the mention of French beach holidays, you really can't beat them can you.

Lewis - thank you for some great advice, we certainly would be buying into something special - and for that reason it makes me feel like we're not being altogether crazy. As I mention above we have always had a car payment as part of our monthly outgoings, I've been the same since I was 17 - I treat cars like library books... maybe one day we'll get a large chunk of money that doesn't need to be prioritised to another area, but until then I'd rather not have our own money tied up in a vehicle, I know with the interest it costs us more, but free cash is certainly more important with a young family - IMO

 

[andyinluton]

If its replacing a discovery thats costing more per month Its a no brainer....just get on with it!

If I was in your position I would try & justify it with:

In the 1st 3 years 36k miles you would save 36x177 on the payments 3x1000+ on servicing
??? on repairs due to having a warranty say 3x150 for breakdown cover and probably 30-40% on your fuel bill.

With an allowance for repairs I make that something like a saving of £300 a month.

Demonstrators save you a fortune - not because of the reduced purchase price, more the fact that it stops you adding all the options if you specified from new.

The one thing to make sure of is that the one you are looking at has the factory fit towbar its an expensive exercise to retrofit it.

 

[Meoncoast]

We have found an ex demonstrator that will cost us £540

If you go for this and under 3 months old I would go for the extended warranty but for me after that having a 5 year old van and still owing another 5 years on it would be a big worry. If I set my heart on a beach I think I would look for a well loved lower millage 3 or 4 year van with a 3 or 4 year finance deal on it.
We had a Nissan Serena a few years ago (quite a few years ago) seated 6 benches made a bed we camped with it and used the back as a bed next to tent. Athough these are not made today there must be something like that on the market

 

[MattBW]

The finance deals were quite a lot more expensive than just borrowing from a bank when I looked at the figures more closely.

I think I put my car in as P-Ex for about 5k (probably could have got 7 or 8 private though) , about 8k cash and the rest on a regular loan. I went for 5 years on that, but the monthly payment is indeed more than my mortgage My mortgage is small though I guess. 10 years would certainly make those monthy payments less scary. A Cali should in theory have more residual value than most cars after 10 years but for me I'd be nervous of the changes in the car industry which could mean that's no longer the case in 10 years.

 

[larrylamb]

If you go for this and under 3 months old I would go for the extended warranty but for me after that having a 5 year old van and still owing another 5 years on it would be a big worry.

You could sell the Cali at 5 years old after the warranty expires and get more for it than the outstanding loan balance. Any extra left over could be the deposit on your new Cali.

 

[Meoncoast]

You could sell the Cali at 5 years old after the warranty expires and get more for it than the outstanding loan balance. Any extra left over could be the deposit on your new Cali.

that could work
What ever you decided to do the Cali or a conversion for that matter is not cheap unless you are a lottery winner - you can put a price on the fun such vans can bring.

 

[aBusAndBeyond]

You might also find that even with PCP you would have some equity in a California at the end of the 4 year deal. Often the guaranteed future value is very conservative for a California so despite putting £0 deposit in, you may find yourself with a few thousand pound equity at the end. If you look at the VW typical finance figure for an Ocean on their website the GFV is around £24,000 after 3 years but they are worth far more than that. Difficult as I assume there are no 3 or 4 year old Beachs to compare. The GFV is the same regardless of the deposit you put in but obviously you'd pay more per month. And remember you are not forced to pay that final payment, you can always just trade it for a new one with therefore more deposit for your next vehicle.

 

[Amarillo]

Demonstrators save you a fortune - not because of the reduced purchase price, more the fact that it stops you adding all the options if you specified from new.

Hahaha!

It didn't save me. I've spent the best part of a year secretly adding options to my Beach which was to be used as a demonstrator (I wonder if my wife will notice!):
1. bigger fuel tank +£66
2. LED lights upgrade +£1,608
3. climatronic air conditioning +£762
4. rear-view camera +£198
5. adaptive cruise control +£888

 

[B J G]

I have known people who have increased their Mortgage and used the money to fund a car purchase instead of a house improvement.
Suppose it depends on how long your mortgage period is etc.
Not something I'd do but as I say I've known about it being done.

 

[Amarillo]

I have known people who have increased their Mortgage and used the money to fund a car purchase instead of a house improvement.
Suppose it depends on how long your mortgage period is etc.
Not something I'd do but as I say I've known about it being done.

It seems to me a no-brainer.

I pay 1.38% interest on my mortgage. Raising £50,000 by increasing my mortgage would cost me £57.50 per month in interest payments, if you add to that capital repayments over 10 years, the figure is £446 per month, an overall cost of £53,520.

I would still prefer to pay cash up front for a car, but if finance is the only option, an increased mortgage is a good choice.

 

[cleve]

We have 3 children (8, 6, 3) and wouldn't be without the beach now. However we have talked about how we may end up towing something when they're teenagers to give us extra space as we gave up on awnings a long time ago but can't see it being very comfortable to have all 5 of us sleeping/living in the beach once they're all taller & older.

Maybe you could consider a Caravelle with the caravan as an interim option before committing to finance? We bought our used Caravelle for £13k added a sun canopy, kitchen pod, bike rack and 50k mileage and sold it for £17.5k so you shouldn't lose anything. Helped us get a feel for the daily drive setup and the lower bed arrangement before we then got our beach.

We've used zopa in the past for a loan. Not sure how it works for the amount you would need to borrow but it was easy to get quotes, make overpayments, change repayment dates etc and very competitive rate.

Just had our first service outside warranty and it cost £912 for wear and tear things and the full service so something to bear in mind with your costings too!

 

[simplek1]

We have 3 children (8, 6, 3) and wouldn't be without the beach now. However we have talked about how we may end up towing something when they're teenagers to give us extra space as we gave up on awnings a long time ago but can't see it being very comfortable to have all 5 of us sleeping/living in the beach once they're all taller & older.

Maybe you could consider a Caravelle with the caravan as an interim option before committing to finance? We bought our used Caravelle for £13k added a sun canopy, kitchen pod, bike rack and 50k mileage and sold it for £17.5k so you shouldn't lose anything. Helped us get a feel for the daily drive setup and the lower bed arrangement before we then got our beach.

We've used zopa in the past for a loan. Not sure how it works for the amount you would need to borrow but it was easy to get quotes, make overpayments, change repayment dates etc and very competitive rate.

Just had our first service outside warranty and it cost £912 for wear and tear things and the full service so something to bear in mind with your costings too!

That's great thank you - can I ask why you have given up with awnings? We are kind of contemplating giving up on the caravan and just going for the beach and awning!!

Also what do you mean "getting used to the lower bed arrangement" ? I'm trying to get a feel for everything, and be aware of anything that might be a surprise on our first night lol

 

[simplek1]

Thank you everyone again for all the helpful comments - it's really good to get people's points of view who have been there. We put the deposit down on ours today... not 100% comitted yet as it is refundable - we are short by £4K on our Land Rover settlement, so we've bought ourselves some time to see if we can sell privately! Definitely a step closer though

 

[cleve]

That's great thank you - can I ask why you have given up with awnings? We are kind of contemplating giving up on the caravan and just going for the beach and awning!!

We found having an awning took away some of the fun and convenience that comes with having a campervan. Basically you have a campervan but still have to pitch an enormous tent! They take up so much space in the vehicle when travelling, then there's the extras needed to furnish the awning that need packing somewhere and you've got to dry it out before packing away and all that nonsense! It also obstructs your view if sitting inside the vehicle and never that cosy with the draught under the vehicle.

Also what do you mean "getting used to the lower bed arrangement" ? I'm trying to get a feel for everything, and be aware of anything that might be a surprise on our first night lol

We found the 3 seater bed pretty lumpy so now have a comfortz mattress on top. It's also working out where you put everything at night once the bed is pulled out. For us we have to juggle car seats, fridge and porta potti. With 4 children you'd have very little floor space left with the extra captains seats in the middle row too.

Like I said I wouldn't be without our beach, it suits our lifestyle, it's our daily drive and we've had some amazing road trips in it which the children refer to all the time. With the beach there's a lot of advantages over the Caravelle but I'm not sure they're justified for such a huge debt so think about hiring one from vw or camper vantastic to try before you buy/make such a commitment.

 

[Amarillo]

never that cosy with the draught under the vehicle

The Kela III I bought second hand has a lobby area between the van and tent area. The tent area has a fully sewn in groundsheet.

 

[simplek1]

We found having an awning took away some of the fun and convenience that comes with having a campervan. Basically you have a campervan but still have to pitch an enormous tent! They take up so much space in the vehicle when travelling, then there's the extras needed to furnish the awning that need packing somewhere and you've got to dry it out before packing away and all that nonsense! It also obstructs your view if sitting inside the vehicle and never that cosy with the draught under the vehicle.


We found the 3 seater bed pretty lumpy so now have a comfortz mattress on top. It's also working out where you put everything at night once the bed is pulled out. For us we have to juggle car seats, fridge and porta potti. With 4 children you'd have very little floor space left with the extra captains seats in the middle row too.

Like I said I wouldn't be without our beach, it suits our lifestyle, it's our daily drive and we've had some amazing road trips in it which the children refer to all the time. With the beach there's a lot of advantages over the Caravelle but I'm not sure they're justified for such a huge debt so think about hiring one from vw or camper vantastic to try before you buy/make such a commitment.

Thank you - I totally get the awning element when you point out the bits I've tried to "conveniently" ignore - we found that an awning for the caravan (unless we were sited for a week or more) carried a similar hit to the convenience of just pulling up. I guess there is the option for my eldest, who is 13, to go in a pop up tent in a couple of years once our new baby hits the age where he needs to be in his own bed. And for bits n pieces, I've seen that some people erect a store tent, which I guess helps with floor space when the beds out. Also the one we have put a deposit on has the comfort mattress and bed extension, which I assume will help with lumpiness

How does storage work in them? I'm a stickler for taking far too many clothes? Am I correct in thinking there is a full width drawer under the bench? I know it sounds like I haven't looked at them, we honestly have, I just keep forgetting to look at storage

 

[simplek1]

The Kela III I bought second hand has a lobby area between the van and tent area. The tent area has a fully sewn in groundsheet.

That sounds good!! Does it take up quite a large amount of space in the beach when travelling?

 

[Amarillo]

That sounds good!! Does it take up quite a large amount of space in the beach when travelling?

I don't have my Beach yet, but the packed tent is bloody massive, and I really don't yet know how it will fit in.

 

[cleve]

Thank you - I totally get the awning element when you point out the bits I've tried to "conveniently" ignore - we found that an awning for the caravan (unless we were sited for a week or more) carried a similar hit to the convenience of just pulling up. I guess there is the option for my eldest, who is 13, to go in a pop up tent in a couple of years once our new baby hits the age where he needs to be in his own bed. And for bits n pieces, I've seen that some people erect a store tent, which I guess helps with floor space when the beds out. Also the one we have put a deposit on has the comfort mattress and bed extension, which I assume will help with lumpiness

Have a look at this, someone else's experience about how things always evolve and there's never enough storage when you have kids! https://vwcaliforniaclub.com/threads/volkswagen-california-camping-with-babies.15687/#post-172055

I've posted a few threads about storage and travelling with children which you might find helpful. Have a search on my profile or Zeratul usually has some helpful threads about travelling in a beach with a larger family.

https://vwcaliforniaclub.com/threads/camping-and-travelling-with-young-children-some-tips.7890/
https://vwcaliforniaclub.com/thread...lland-germany-italy-france.15052/#post-169410

How does storage work in them? I'm a stickler for taking far too many clothes? Am I correct in thinking there is a full width drawer under the bench? I know it sounds like I haven't looked at them, we honestly have, I just keep forgetting to look at storage

The full width drawer is only in the SE or 2 seater beach. The 3 seater has 3 small drawers where we keep collapsible pots and pans, plates and torches, chargers, tea towels etc. This is how we store things with bedding on top of the multiflex and then underneath clothes, beachwear, spare food, toiletries in plastic boxes....



We also rely on an mft euro select towbar mounted storage box for longer trips and use a quechua pop up beach tent/seconds base for storage
https://vwcaliforniaclub.com/thread...e-box-tailgate-access.6959/page-2#post-120199