180 bhp oil consumption issue

[sidepod]

Out of interest what was/is the definitive problem/fix?

T4WFA eluded to elliptical bore wear?

Every internal combustion engine wears like this to some extent. Simply a case of the forces on a piston during combustion. The piston doesn't travel vertically but elliptically within the bore.
Unfortunately in the case of the 180 engine it seams VW failed to manage it adequately.

So is the fix a different ring set? A more robust oil control ring ? Different bore coating ? Different machining tolerances?

I know VW replace the engine but that's just the easy and most cost effective solution.

What is in the new engine?

 

[snowy55]

According to Vw it doesn't really happen therefore they don't give any explanation of cause or remedy :- simples.

 

[WelshGas]

As far as I am aware the problem was a change in manufacturing tolerances which has been resolved since mid - 2011.

 

[sidepod]

Hmmmn? It would still be good to know which part was altered.
Manufacturing tolerance on pistons, rings or bore ?

Reason for asking, a friend has one that's approaching the magic number.
Happy to rebuild the motor as long as we're happy the components are correct to avoid a repeat.

 

[2into1]

There doesn't seem to be a full explanation available. I've seen talk of different mapping in the later engines, and also thinker walls - as if the cylinder block wasn't strong enough..... but it's all just talk.

I know vw tend to adopt the replace not repair approach (except on roofs), but even so, I'd be surprised to see them fitting new engines (often at their expense) if a satisfactory remanufacture route was available.

 

[Loz]

I am also suspicious of the timing around the year that these engines were manufactured and problems that they have had because around that time the engines produced by VW would not run on any form of biodiesel, in fact our 2011 Touareg had a "no biodiesel" sticker inside the fuel cover and I think this was because a lot of the seals used in the engine were susceptible to early perishing from the chemical components in the biofuel, this quickly changed because biofuels were by then a component of ordinary pump fuel, although in smaller doses than dedicated biofuels served at the pump on the continent.
So I wonder if part of the problem is breakdown of the seals within the engine generally?

 

[Jabberwocky]

Methanol contained in Biodiesel, after short or prolonged contact with certain elastomers (rubbers) and plasticizers (chemicals found in plastics) will cause swelling and/or leaching of/from components in the fuel system (including valve stem seals, an obvious oil source if damaged). This is principal reason for the “no biodiesel” stickers. Almost certainly these stickers were used by manufacturers at a time when new, resistant, seals/components were not available to them. Things have changed and increasingly these stickers will no longer be required as new chemically resistant materials are used.

 

[sidepod]

Hmm

Methanol contained in Biodiesel, after short or prolonged contact with certain elastomers (rubbers) and plasticizers (chemicals found in plastics) will cause swelling and/or leaching of/from components in the fuel system (including valve stem seals, an obvious oil source if damaged). This is principal reason for the “no biodiesel” stickers. Almost certainly these stickers were used by manufacturers at a time when new, resistant, seals/components were not available to them. Things have changed and increasingly these stickers will no longer be required as new chemically resistant materials are used.

Hmmmm. All good points. Surely if it was valve stem seal then a simple head refurb/replace would suffice instead of a full engine?

I've head talk of flexi engine blocks too.
Hi power output on these units is derived from boost. High boost can cause block flexing.

I guess the only way would be to strip the engine and measure everything and check against workshop manual data for tolerance.

 

[Jabberwocky]

Hmm

Hmmmm. All good points. Surely if it was valve stem seal then a simple head refurb/replace would suffice instead of a full engine?

I've head talk of flexi engine blocks too.
Hi power output on these units is derived from boost. High boost can cause block flexing.

I guess the only way would be to strip the engine and measure everything and check against workshop manual data for tolerance.

My point about valve stem seals was to point out that if the high oil use engines had been fuelled with biodiesel then this was an additional potential cause of high oil usage. It was not to suggest it was the only one. Sorry if I caused you any confusion.

 

[SusiBus]

I'm quite happy to be put right but, I thought that the fuel was delivered on diesel engines by injectors without the use of valves with stem seals. Valved head's only been being found on petrol engines?

 

[sidepod]

No. Diesel engines have valves/cams etc just as petrol motors. It's simply the fuel is squirted in under high pressure, compressed and the heat of compression (think end of bicycle pump getting hot during use ) that ignites the fuel (as opposed to spark ignition).

 

[AlanC]

One small point, VW UK are no longer making any contribution to the cost of a replacement 180 PS engine.

Interestingly, VW Germany still are.

Alan

 

[veg_frenzy]

For those who may be interested in the engine wear, oil consumption, EGR failure topic, you might like to take a look at this.
https://www.facebook.com/peter.blackman.927/posts/1541398149225187

 

[Kenton]

I’m looking at buying a second hand 2010 180ps
At 80k miles it had the problem and VW carried out extensive engine parts replacement . It’s now approaching 120k miles . What’s the likelihood that the replacement engine will have the same problems at 160k miles ?

 

[WelshGas]

I’m looking at buying a second hand 2010 180ps
At 80k miles it had the problem and VW carried out extensive engine parts replacement . It’s now approaching 120k miles . What’s the likelihood that the replacement engine will have the same problems at 160k miles ?

No one can tell you, because no one knows with a 100% certainty what the original problem was. What's the chance that you'll still be driving in 10 yrs? Not all engines were affected in 2010/2011 so the chances are minimal, probably.

 

[calikev]

I’m looking at buying a second hand 2010 180ps
At 80k miles it had the problem and VW carried out extensive engine parts replacement . It’s now approaching 120k miles . What’s the likelihood that the replacement engine will have the same problems at 160k miles ?

i would look for something else unless it is very cheap plenty out there.

 

[BerndRos]

I’m looking at buying a second hand 2010 180ps
At 80k miles it had the problem and VW carried out extensive engine parts replacement . It’s now approaching 120k miles . What’s the likelihood that the replacement engine will have the same problems at 160k miles ?

You refer to ‘engine parts’ and then ‘replacement engine’

If it’s had a replacement engine fitted by a VW workshop, then I imagine you should be 100% OK as the engines were upgraded.

Am speaking as a person that’s unfortunately been through the process.

 

[2into1]

Find out what suffix is on the egr valve. A ‘/D’ will improve your chances of a good outcome according to the latest thinking.

 

[Kenton]

Thanks for the replies .
I would not describe it as “ very cheap “ but a good price for its age and mileage .

It doesn’t make sense that if VW fixed it then they should have made sure that it didn’t happen again .

I spoke to my local garage and they say there are ways to help ensure that it doesn’t happen again but at a cost of course .

I know there are no 100% guarantees . I guess what I’m asking is has anyone who had the engine / EGR replacements held onto the vehicle for another 80K or bought one post engine change and driven it another 80K and did the problem repeat itself ? Probably hard to find a van that 7 years old that’s done that kind of Mileage though .

 

[Kenton]

Find out what suffix is on the egr valve. A ‘/D’ will improve your chances of a good outcome according to the latest thinking.

I’ll find out , thank you

 

[Kenton]

Spoke to the garage that carried out the engine / parts replacement . They assured me all parts ( EGR etc) were to the latest spec at the time and the vehicle is still under warranty with them for the parts and work they did . They say I can reasonably expect the engine to last .

 

[2into1]

I’ll find out , thank you

Here's the group for a video of how to find the code etc. https://www.facebook.com/groups/vwcfca/

They are either no suffix, or /A or /C. The latest /D is understood to have a coating which stops them breaking down inside and damaging the engine. That's the theory at least. As Welshgas will point out there's not too much evidence about. I wouldn't necessarily have a mental breakdown if I owned one with a earlier version, but wouldn't buy a none '/D' one with the current knowledge.

 

[2into1]

Spoke to the garage that carried out the engine / parts replacement . They assured me all parts ( EGR etc) were to the latest spec at the time and the vehicle is still under warranty with them for the parts and work they did . They say I can reasonably expect the engine to last .

I'd still want to see a photo of the egr sticker. '/c's were being fitted until quite recently.

 

[BerndRos]

I'd still want to see a photo of the egr sticker. '/c's were being fitted until quite recently.

I had my new engine fitted in January 2016 and it came with a ‘D suffix EGR’

About 20K miles since & running like a dream with zero oil usage. I have made the decision to have yearly oil changes......

 

[AlanC]

Mine had a complete new base engine fitted back in Dec 2016 That included a new DPF and exhaust probes and a suffix 'D' EGR cooler

So far, all is well with no oil consumption, but the mileage is only 10k more since then.

As WG says, it is a problem for many 180bhp T5s, but no one can say with any certainty if all 2010 vehicles are affected. A bit 'pot luck' I am afraid, if it worries you, either go for a lesser powered Cali which do not have the problem, or 180bhp but not one from 2010.

Alan