4Motion, is it worth it??

[Bjohnson]

I'm sure many of the current owners may have considered this carefully, but can anyone provide any real world pro's and con's??

We are not Cali owners at present but hope to be later this year; my preferred spec is either be a 180 DSG or the 4Motion and we would be purchasing a secondhand vehicle via a dealer (low or no miles, rather than paying full price and having a 3 month order time).

I know about discounts and bartering for best possible deal, so purchasing details are not the point at the moment!!!

We expect to get as much use as possible from the Cali and will use it year round for camping trips. Our intended use means it may be used on occassion as a second vehicle for some daily use, but probably not a great deal, mostly weekends and planned trips. We do plan to try a winter trip or two to the alps as i'm a keen snowboarder.

I forgot to mention that I also plan to tow with it, but only a small motorcycle trailer when i go to trackdays; so no massive need for 4WD there.

So the question, is the 4Motion worth getting and will i really see the benefit of the 4WD?

Theres obviously a price uplift for the initial purchase of the 4Motion (although I've seen some at dealers this winter at pretty good prices). The idea of owning a 4Motion is great, but in reality will i ever need the 4WD capability?

My perceived reality is........
- perhaps 2 or 3 days in a bad UK winter when we have snow (we live in Bristol area, so we are not regularly trapped in bad weather conditions)
- maybe the odd occassion when we are in a wet field camping (we are seasoned campers and have so far never got the car trapped in any of the sites we have visited!)
- those 1 or two trips to the alps in winter - but even then most main routes are pretty clear and a good quality set of snow chains would probably be considerably cheaper than the 4WD capital cost.

Running costs and maintenance are obviously a key consideration - we are not so constrained by budget that we cant afford to run the cali as a second vehicle, but dont want to face huge service or repair costs if it went wrong, particularly if compared with say a 180 DSG.

So what are peoples views?

Is is noticeably more expensie to run (mpg, tax, service etc) over a 180 DSG? does any one regret not buying one, does anyone who has one ever really notice or exploit the 4WD benefits?

Looking forward to the considered view of the Cali owners club

 

[Californiaman]

This is something that I struggled with when I ordered mine. I have a friend that has a 4motion that he makes great use of (he tows a small trails bike to all sorts of remote locations) he loves it. No reliability issues to date and not a great increase in running costs.

I've had awd drive cars for years (namely a string of Subarus) and they're great. The problem is, I am always tempted by 'that little track' and don't want to end up downside up in the Cali as a result. So, I figured stick with fwd and if the weather is bad when we are away, we'll just park up and enjoy!

T5's tend to be pretty good in the snow anyway.

We also run a little Suzuki Jimny which is one of the best bad weather cars ever. If the Cali was our only car, I would almost certainly have gone for 4motion and tried to avoid temptation..!

 

[Californiaman]

We are all year campers too and haven't had any issues so far.

One word of warning - make sure you get a Cali with a towbar installed. I understand that a retrofit can be very expensive and invasive!!

 

[KernowLad]

We need it for our driveway! Most delivery vans get stuck even when it's just wet.

Also tow a boat, often from a slippery beach and I just don't really get on with FWD and high torque/bhp.

 

[MickyBlue]

It's a bit difficult to help answer your questions conclusively as we have only just taken delivery of our DSG 4motion Cali. It is my daily transport replacing a Freelander 2 Auto. Hopefully this may help though;

1st tank economy with a general mix of local driving (no motorway cruising) =27mpg (worked out manually brim to brim) which is exactly the same as my 4yr old HSE Auto FL2 which it replaced. That bodes well on that front as the engine is still tight.

WRT tax & service costs they are all the same, no dearer for DSG or 4motion.

I tow a caravan or one of 2 trailers, so would not want to be without 4wd, especially as my drive is about 1 in 4, but also for wet field/tracks etc. Last winter the FL2 would not get up the drive on the snow without winter tyres, all season tyres were useless even with 4wd. So tyres are a big/bigger factor IMHO.

I like auto's or DSG's, and my last 4 vehicles have been. The 7 speed DSG in this new Cali is a lot better than the 6 speeds we have had in VW's or Skoda's in the past on initial impressions.

DSG's have had their critics on the reliability front in their early days esp in Skoda taxis, Google/Honest John web site has loads of info on this. Am I worried, erm... No.

Out of warranty.....that's a different matter. Even with the FL2 I extended the warranty, which helps when diff bearings need replacing, electrics start playing up etc etc. You will get that with virtually any modern vehicle though. I will extend the warranty after the 3 years of factory cover if we keep the van, but I would if it wasn't 4 motion or DSG, as you can do pretty well nothing (bar fluids/filters, & wear & tear parts) to modern CamBus run vehicles without the software, or the special tools the manufacturers supply main agents to keep work 'in franchise'.

I really think overall it depends on how you use a vehicle, and how long you plan on keeping it whether DSG or 4motion are worth it for you.

As well as its initial cost, (yes it's a £50k+ vehicle new), but compared to a Discovery 4 or RR sport X5 or similar, it is a lot more versatile & will retain a lot more value than anything of that ilk.

Do I regret spending this sort of money..No.

Anyway hope that helps a bit.
Mike

 

[geraintandkim]

Yes.

It has been invaluable on many many occasions - from muddy campsites, to swampy festivals, to snowy lane for snowboarding in Cornwall.

Yes yes yes !

 

[CaliTess]

Yes.

We previously had a 2010 T5 conversion 140 manual 2wd which struggled on muddy & snow covered hills. Our Cali 4motion feels very surefooted - well worth the extra £s.

You only live once.

Sent from my ViewPad7 using Tapatalk

 

[Bjohnson]

Thanks for all the really useful info and pointers, particularly the tow bar concern.

The tyre choice is a real consideration that i hadnt given much thought. My preferred van spec would have the Canberra allows (i think thats what they are called) either on the vehicle or something i could upgrade to, and therefore its likely to have road biased tyres over winter tyres. Hmmm more thinking to be done, but so far i'm swaying toward the 4Motion

 

[keredewor]

Worth every penny.........IMO :grin:

 

[barry]

I bought a 2-year old 57 plate 174 2.5L, 5-pot manual 4Motion.
I didn't deliberately seek out a 4Motion, it was simply a convenient buy.
I was nervous about the tyre wear and the consuption of a 4wd.
However ...

TYRES
It came with a set of nearly new common or garden Goodyear Cargos.
I've done over 20K miles on them and they are still in good condition which suggests the 4motion is not severe on tyres.
My guess is that I'll replace them when they done 25-30K miles (I'm not sure with what).
My wife's rear tyres on her BM Coupe do about 15K ;-)

DIESEL
I'm not sure that mpg means much because it depends on so many different things.
But a 3K mile trip in France last year (on motorways, back routes and some real steep stuff) returned 34 mpg.
And this included a degree of enthusiastic but France-legal mway driving.
I've played around on long mway trips in the UK (eg Glasgow-Bath) and at 50-60 over 250 miles it does a boring 38mpg.
At 70 it's 33-34.
Around Glasgow and the burbs (3-5 mile trips, coldish engine), 22-25.
Finally, a recent emergency dash from Glasgow to Edinburgh airport well <20
Remember this is a 2.5L 5-pot manual - not one of the newer 4-pot versions.
(Interestingly this almost exactly mirrors my wife's 2.5L 6-pot petrol BM).

So I've been pleasantly surprised at tyre wear and mpg.

The biggest surprise was being able to extract ourselves from the waterlogged Applecross campsite when all other vehicles needed a tractor.
Other 4wd wagons were OK too.
And being able to very easily negociate the snowed up Glasgow suburbs last winter when all other 2wd wagons were stranded (including
my neighbour's 2wd Cali and my wife's BM) - and escaping from the frozen-up, snow-blocked M74 in the wee small hours when over 100 2wd wagons
and some 4wd ones, too, were stuck.

I don't know how much the 2-year old 57 plate would have cost me if it hadn't have been a 4Motion but the price didn't seem much different
from others advertised.

Bottom line: I'm glad I have a 4Motion, BJohnson : )

 

[Bjohnson]

Thanks Barry, that's a really useful and honest review, it's swung me back to the 4Motion :clap

 

[KernowLad]

All the 4Motioners on here - ours came with fairly sporty Dunlops - great on the road but they don't look all that useful for anything "rough" I'll keep them on but might stick All Weathers on once they wear out. Any of you done similar?

I do think that for a relatively small extra outlay, 4Motion increases the versatility of the Cali enormously. Seen a few vids of them doing pretty impressive stuff in snow and off road. It's no Defender but they seem pretty decent. Nice to have diff lock too.

 

[BerndRos]

Think your right, and I speak from experience. Two days ago I was as usual being adventurous and got caught at Enna ( highest commune in Sicily ) right in the middle of the old town on cobbled streets in snow and slush. Only way out was down a fairly steep street with no more than 2 feet on either side of wing mirrors, plus house balconies sticking out every so often. All I could do was keep it in ' 1 ' with foot controlling the brake and gentle go down, slid a few times and after making it to the bottom I felt decidedly shaky, no idea how we made it.

I have 2WD............

 

[KernowLad]

Think your right, and I speak from experience. Two days ago I was as usual being adventurous and got caught at Enna ( highest commune in Sicily ) right in the middle of the old town on cobbled streets in snow and slush. Only way out was down a fairly steep street with no more than 2 feet on either side of wing mirrors, plus house balconies sticking out every so often. All I could do was keep it in ' 1 ' with foot controlling the brake and gentle go down, slid a few times and after making it to the bottom I felt decidedly shaky, no idea how we made it.

I have 2WD............

4WD makes almost zero difference (pretty much) when going downhill. It's your tyres that matter! It's only for traction and in a quick car, gives better grip off the line and out of corners. Yep they'll bit a little engine braking on all wheels rather than just the front but for that situation, you could be one wheel drive and be pretty much the same!

A 4Motion would have been the same - except slightly heavier which can give a small benefit in grip!

I think a lot of people think 4WD is some magic thing that makes anything stick like glue in all situations but for braking, it's the same, for coasting, it's the same as 2WD. In fact if the 2WD car has better tyres, it would fare better.

That does sound rather nerve racking though! Glad you made it! :grin:

You may already know all this and sorry if you do but as a fairly experienced off roader (used to to it as part of an engineering job and done loads of green landing) and IAM and Police trained driving bore, I feel it my duty to do all I can to spread the word ! It can come across as being an annoying PITA though. In fact you probably have some track experience and so would be able to teach me plenty on that!

 

[coordinated]

4Motion's the only thing I'm wondering whether I'll regret not getting on our 180 DSG. Here's how our decision-making went...

We wanted to keep the emissions down and the fuel efficiency up (not sure how "eco" the Cali can ever be, even with its efficient new engine, but we wanted to feel we'd considered it) - but I did want the 180 (thanks to forum advice!) - so we decided it would either be a 4Motion manual or a 180 DSG.

I wasn't that worried about the extra cost - I'd rather get it right.

On a minor note, I also liked the idea of the front parking sensors and the Lane Change Assist. I've done a few too many night-time journeys in driving rain recently, where it's been difficult to see the view in the wing mirrors and when it's safe to pull out (though I'm conscious the Cali has much better visibility than our Fiat Panda!), and figured anything which potentially saves an accident is worth considering. I'd assumed based on the brochure (incorrectly, it now seems) that as the front parking sensors weren't available on the 4Motion, neither was the LCA.

The 2WD 180 DSG won out in the end, as we figured we'd spend a lot more time driving long distances than the few occasions we'd need the 4WD for. Guess we'll just have to be a little more "risk averse" and drive/park more cautiously. And we can always get snow chains/different tyres.

I'm sure I'll come across situations where I wished we'd gone for the 4Motion, but will never know whether it would have helped or not... ;-)

 

[BerndRos]

KernowLad, yes I thought after I posted, a 4WD would have had the same problem ! and if I had hit the sides it would have been a case of being towed out backwards !

 

[Cody]

I'm with Kernowlad. If tyres aren't getting traction, no amount of 4x4 is going to help. Seen more than one X5 type vehicle tuck in snow and mud due to tyre not having grip or summer tyre in winter conditions.

 

[alexsmith37]

We've only had our 140 2wd since september, but its given us chance to use it over winter. I really wanted 4motion but couldn't justify the cost. After having problems in past getting stranded in snow i decided to splash out and get winter tyres, to be honest I wasn't convinced to start with that tyres would make much difference, so I got chains aswell. We took the cali down to Chamonix over christmas and got to try it out in various snow conditions, all i can say is that winter tyres are absolutely amazing. not once did we need the chains and i had a bit of fun in a large car park trying to get them to lose grip but they wouldn't. Any i'm pretty happy with the 2wd and probably wouldn't go for 4wd unless money was no object.

 

[CaliTess]

Lots of good advice here:-
"Winter driving tips - snow & ice"
http://www.drivingfast.net/techniques/winter-driving-techniques.htm

 

[Calimark]

Hi Alex, that is really good feedback. What tyres did you go for and did you buy an additional set of steel rims ? What is the overall cost of the winter tyres including the rims ?

The other advantage of winter tyres is the option of driving in Austria to take advantage of their great campsites for skiing.

 

[Cody]

Steels were about £300 though can get cheaper but was against a time line so just bought new and getting 17" steels (180 DSG has to have 17s). I bought late in the season as well but have a set of Toyo X-country snows though have M+S and snowflake symbol on them. Cost was a tadge under £500 if memory. Not withstanding legal requirement in Germany I viewed it as long term investment in that the tyres wil last me 5 years , the steels at least double that, saves my alloys and extends life of summer tyres. I aim to continue use when return to blighty as live ooop north and as winter tyres designed for use below 7deg C, better through the cold season of late Nov to late Mar and the frequent frosts and black ice never mind the snow.

Having used the Toyos for a while, good grip in snow though learnt DSG needs differing handling to a normal clutch when driving away - lots of power low down so gentle boot gents you all squirrelly.

Having got a £40k+ car, seems a small price to pay for safety and keeping car on the black(?)stuff. Sorry if sound evangelical, but sold on them and a good few of my petrol head chums in UK have swapped to winter steels and tyres in UK too.

 

[alexsmith37]

We got a set of Bridgestone Blizzak LM18C tyres fitted on steel wheels for £500 from VW in edinburgh.

 

[Hannsky]

We are looking to change to a 4Motion but having trouble finding any dealer stock, we have specced up a brand new one and for what we want it is a tad over £60k

My only worry is a big dip in depreciation with the T6 on its way

 

[WelshGas]

So you're not planning on keeping it for very long?
If and when the T6 hits the road it will be more expensive, the engine will be much fussier, it will probably be using Adblue, more expensive to service.
The California is a lifestyle choice not an investment.
Dealerships don't hold large stocks, just their demos as most are built to order.
That's my personal opinion anyway.

 

[reserves]

We are looking to change to a 4Motion but having trouble finding any dealer stock, we have specced up a brand new one and for what we want it is a tad over £60k

My only worry is a big dip in depreciation with the T6 on its way

Have you priced it up on Drive the Deal?

Also if you're that worried about depreciation have a haggle on an ex demo one, something liek this https://used.volkswagen-vans.co.uk/...orwich/604700805-889950.aspx?srcmdc=se_na_re_