60k sledge..

[Tronic]

living in Northumberland I decided to buy the 4 motion as I thought the 4WD would cope with the climate up here better. After a splattering of snow this morning I drove back home and down our little lane. This is where all the fun began.. I crept over the brow and then proceeded to slide down with no control whatsoever. As I watched the stone wall get closer and closer I started to think about the damage I was going to cause to my lovely van. It all happened in super slow motion. Luckily I got a bit of traction at the bottom and I was able to steer clear avoiding the wall.
T6 Ocean with 4motion marks out of 10, I'd give it a big fat zero. I noticed very little difference in performance today compared to a normal front wheel drive vehicle.

Maybe my expectations are too high and I should only expect to be able to get out of a moderately muddy field.

I know it's a totally different vehicle but my Discovery would have had that for breakfast..

Cheers,

Rob

 

[GrannyJen]

How horrible. That must have been really nasty for you.

I've had a totally different experience, starting to slide down a quite nasty track in Northern scotland 2 years ago, and immediately felt traction and control kick in.

Looking at video's posted by @briwy and others the California normally handles a lot better than you describe and even with the rubbish tyres I have on at present I still felt capable in what snow we had two days ago.

I presume you have winter or MnS tyres?

 

[Jay586]

Tyres?

I was snowed in for weeks a few years ago due to living on an hill & we had lots of discussions with friends about how a lot of the 4 x 4 became sleds...

I think your actual question is whether the 4motion is better than the 2wd van. A comparison with an offroad vehicle, that has sector leading pedigree perhaps will always leave a van wanting...

 

[T6 CFO]

What tyres have you got on. I’ve got a 4Motion with Bridgestone Turanza tyres on and I wouldn’t trust it in snow. All weathers going on and probably by next winter. This winter it stays on the drive


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[Amarillo]

I wonder if 2WD with chains in those conditions would have fared better?


Follow my blog at www.au-revoir.eu

 

[GrannyJen]

Tyres?

I was snowed in for weeks a few years ago due to living on an hill & we had lots of discussions with friends about how a lot of the 4 x 4 became sleds...

I think your actual question is whether the 4motion is better than the 2wd van. A comparison with an offroad vehicle, that has sector leading pedigree perhaps will always leave a van wanting...

I agree.

Even a 4WD with crap tyres is pretty useless.

After a lifetime of LR's, RR's and Disco's I picked up a BMW X3 a few years ago. Naturally I assumed it would have tyres that went with the territory but sadly it did not and the first snow of the year I could not even drive down my lane to the pub at the bottom. 18 months later I swapped it for my first Cali, which had MnS tyres on it, and the Cali knocked the socks off it despite it's suspension profile.

 

[briwy]

Sounds like you were ice or hard packed snow in which case 4wd/tyre type won't make much difference. Only studs or spiky chains will grip in those conditions.
Good that you got some traction at the last moment.

 

[Velma's Dad]

I've banged on about this on other threads before, but I think it highlights again the fallacy that 4WD will make you less likely to crash. 4WD is a performance feature, not a safety feature.

4WD is a trump card (although an expensive and heavy one) for getting to some places where a 2WD just can't. Like up a hill in the snow... as long as the road isn't blocked by the stranded 2WD just ahead . Or out of a muddy campsite field.

But 4WD doesn't confer any real-world safety in getting down a hill, or maintaining a relationship with the road around a corner. In those situations, a driven wheel won't grip any better than an undriven one. We have two 4WD cars and although they're cute at getting us up the (un-gritted) hill to our house, neither is particularly clever at getting back down it again.

It's really, really all about the tyres. If you've ever seen, on a muddy road in Africa or Asia, a decrepit (2WD) Hilux on plump, knobbly tyres edging round the (4WD) Landcruiser with road tyres that's slid into the ditch, you'll know what I'm on about. And the advantages of winter (or at least all-season) tyres has also been discussed a lot on this excellent forum.

In very very slippery conditions a 'proper' 4x4 off-roader like a Defender with a low-range gear option and diff locks will usually get you downhill safely, but that's because you can use the low range to crawl down using the engine rather than the foot brake to do the braking on all four wheels. In Chile last year we got an old-school 4Runner down something that was more a steep, muddy, log-strewn waterfall than a track, just by putting it in low-range/first and letting it pick its way down (although I made Mrs VD get out and walk - I couldn't stand the screaming...).

The latest Hill Descent Control gizmos in some AWD cars that lack a transfer box etc are supposed to be good but I must admit I don't have experience using them in difficult conditions.

 

[Wesel]

When you are downhill, 4WD or 2 WD is not very different. There is no question of traction but braking.And the California is quite heavy. In this case it is the tires that can make the difference.

 

[soulstyledevon]

I’m 100% convinced it’s all a matter of tyre choice.
I had some winters fitted for a while and the van (2wd) never let me down in snowy conditions. We had a couple of mild winters and I went back to summers, but haven’t been happy with them over the recent bad spell of weather.

I’m seriously considering two sets of wheels and tyres to suit conditions.

 

[Tronic]

Thanks everyone for your inputs. It seems like a tyre change would be the sensible option. I am currently running Bidgestones which came with the van.

 

[Tronic]

What tyres have you got on. I’ve got a 4Motion with Bridgestone Turanza tyres on and I wouldn’t trust it in snow. All weathers going on and probably by next winter. This winter it stays on the drive


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Hi, I have Bridgestone too, looks like a tyre change is on the cards

 

[T6 CFO]

Been much discussion on this issue and the consensus I got from it was that if your not going extreme/have storage issues then all weather are a good bet.
Personally I’ll go for one if these when my Bridgestone’s are worn out.
Michelin CrossClimate or
Goodyear Cargo Vector 2.
More extreme i.e. skiiing trip then a set of steels with winters on.

I’m down in the hardly ever get snow West Country and my skiing days are over and live in a flat so a no brainier for me.

Mike

 

[GrannyJen]

Thanks everyone for your inputs. It seems like a tyre change would be the sensible option. I am currently running Bidgestones which came with the van.

My new van, a month old, came with Bridgestone Turanza despite being assured they had MnS boots on.

They will have MnS boots on in another 2 weeks. I am scrapping tyres with 2,000 miles wear just to avoid needing an early heart pacemaker. I have to regularly drop everything and drive 300 miles to see Mum perched almost on top of Saddleworth Moor and of course the call to "get up here" never happens when the sun's shining.

As @briwy says, not a lot without chains can help a steep ice-packed descent but failing that I need the comfort of decent tyres.

I am quite annoyed as when I sold Albert I also sold a spare set of Rims with winter boots on and would never have done that if I had known I had summer tyres on Alfie.

 

[Wesel]

For the summer I also have the original equipment Bridgestone Turenza. But for the winter I have Michelin Agilis Alpin. I chose them narrower than the originals (215 * 60 * 17) to be able to - if necessary - mount snow chains.

 

[T6 CFO]

My new van, a month old, came with Bridgestone Turanza despite being assured they had MnS boots on.

They will have MnS boots on in another 2 weeks. I am scrapping tyres with 2,000 miles wear just to avoid needing an early heart pacemaker. I have to regularly drop everything and drive 300 miles to see Mum perched almost on top of Saddleworth Moor and of course the call to "get up here" never happens when the sun's shining.

As @briwy says, not a lot without chains can help a steep ice-packed descent but failing that I need the comfort of decent tyres.

I am quite annoyed as when I sold Albert I also sold a spare set of Rims with winter boots on and would never have done that if I had known I had summer tyres on Alfie.

I’d be doing the same in your position.
Very annoying.
I did not push it with my dealer as I thought I had little choice on the tyre front.
Mike

 

[Alan]

My experience with a 4x4 was with a Range Rover I owned years ago, was great off road etc but never was confident driving on ice
On ice I would favor chains on my Cali

Alan

 

[GrannyJen]

I once had a lift in a Scimitar Tracked reconnaissance vehicle.

That was pretty good in snow and ice

 

[RodCouncil]

My experience with a 4x4 was with a Range Rover I owned years ago, was great off road etc but never was confident driving on ice
On ice I would favor chains on my Cali

Alan

Chains are for deep snow, you need spikes for the ice

 

[Velma's Dad]

I once had a lift in a Scimitar Tracked reconnaissance vehicle.

That was pretty good in snow and ice

Ah yes the Alvis CVR(T) series. They had a Jag engine and could do 50mph which isn't bad for a small tank. And they had rubber track pads so they didn't rip up the tarmac.

One winter when I was in Germany with the (British) Army it was reported that the German government was forbidding de-icing salt, on environmental grounds. I'm not sure if that was actually true but it certainly could get pretty icy. I do remember seeing an otherwise stationary Land Rover ahead of me in a convoy line slide gracefully off crabwise into a ditch (assuming crabs can be graceful) just because of the road camber.

 

[SimonB]

This short video shows the importance of tyres over 2 wheel drive or 4 wheel drive

 

[Velma's Dad]

This short video shows the importance of tyres over 2 wheel drive or 4 wheel drive

Nice vid. And they make the point at the end that having AWD "doesn't help you with [braking] one bit".

 

[Jay20cali]

My new van, a month old, came with Bridgestone Turanza despite being assured they had MnS boots on.

They will have MnS boots on in another 2 weeks. I am scrapping tyres with 2,000 miles wear just to avoid needing an early heart pacemaker. I have to regularly drop everything and drive 300 miles to see Mum perched almost on top of Saddleworth Moor and of course the call to "get up here" never happens when the sun's shining.

As @briwy says, not a lot without chains can help a steep ice-packed descent but failing that I need the comfort of decent tyres.

I am quite annoyed as when I sold Albert I also sold a spare set of Rims with winter boots on and would never have done that if I had known I had summer tyres on Alfie.

Hey jen if you was assured your new van had m&s’s on can you not go back and STAMP your feet!!!!!! after all why should you buy new tyres when you was told you already had them??? that was part of the deal you wanted

 

[sidepod]

I think it comes down to the complexity of the software controlling the stability program.

We have an Evoke that is truly spectacular in snow especially under split Mu conditions ie snow under one side of the vehicle and dry tarmac on the other side. You literally wouldn’t know there was a 100% grip delta across each axle.

Perhaps the VW system is a bit lacking?

 

[applejack]

Having used both my Disco 4 and Cali 4motion today in the snow and ice, both fitted with M&S tyres I can safely say the Cali performed awful doing the same route, I must admit I did not feel safe in the Cali.