Battery Charging

[Swampy]

Hi All

I have recently acquired a T4 LHD Westfalia 1996. Have spent probably 25 nights in it. On a touring trip of 2 weeks the starter battery went flat - did I leave something on overnight? Maybe but i dont think so - but it wasn't the lights and the only drain I can definitely remember was using the cd/ radio for 2 hours.

So I have a couple of questions. I have heard somewhere about random leaks from electrical equipment such as window switches. Does anyone have any experiences of this?

Second, as it doesn't have a split charge system what does anyone else do about keeping starter batteries charged? I've just ordered a small 1.5W solar dash board charger which has both battery clips and cigar lighter attachments. Some models of T4 seem to disconnect the cigar lighter if the ignition is not enabled so that would cover both eventualities.

Most grateful for opinions or advice

 

[TwentyOneThirtyFive]

Could just be a knackered starter battery?

dan

 

[sidepod]

Welcome aboard Swamp.

If it's a genuine Westy then is most certainly does have a split charge system.

You'll find the split charge relay in the space under the fridge. The outputs from the battery charger (assuming it's a genuine unit) feed each side of the relay, in other words, when you're using an elec hook up the leisure batteries are charged from the main output from the battery charger and the starter battery is fed from the secondary output.

What type of radio is fitted. The one in mine has a small turn/click on/off switch. It's very easy to switch it on when cleaning the dash. A slight click and it's on without any volume.

Lights left on perhaps?

I'll try to move this to the T4 Westy section.

S.

 

[sidepod]

Martin - I've tried using my moderator powers to move this to our section. Spectacular fail !!

S.

 

[Swampy]

Well thank you, it is a genuine Welty, a jubilee one with Kaktus upholstery (anyone know where I could get the drivers seat recovered sympathetically in Kaktus? ). So the fact that it does have a split charger is great news. The relay must be blown, could you say how I would check if it is blown? I am reasonably handy with a multimeter. The other alternative is that when I had to get a new starter motor in France on that 2 week trip, possibly the garage disconnected something accidentally, I know they disconnected the battery

This is most useful, thank you all. I think the battery is in pretty good nick but I will check. The radio is a Kenwood with removable front plate and every night I turn it off by partially pressing the bottom left ejecter button

 

[sidepod]

Swampy,

The split charge relay works by taking a signal from the alternator to control the relay.

When the engine is running the split charge relay pulls in and connects both starter battery and leisure batteries to the alternator output allowing them all to charge.

When you park and stop the engine the split charge relay disconnects your leisure batteries from the alternator circuit effectively isolating them from anything fwd of the drivers seat (radio/lights etc.).

This is why the battery charger has two seperate outputs (leisurebatteries/starter battery).
These outputs are connected either side of the split charge relay.

So, firstly I'd locate the split charge relay and check it's pulling in/out when you start stop the engine. As you say, this is fairly easy with a multimeter.

Failing that, connect your multimeter in line with the starter battery and see what current is being used if any.

It may be as Dan pointed out, simply a starter battery past it's sell by date.

Good luck and keep us informed.

S.

 

[Swampy]

Thank you very much. I am on it this afternoon, keep you posted.

 

[Swampy]

So, the relay is fine. Clicking in and out when starting and stopping the engine. But......when on 240v hook up and measured on the relay, the leisure batteries are 13.9v which reasonably compares with readout of 14.0v on front cab display but the starter battery when measured across its terminals is 12.57v. The reading for the battery from the relay is 12.90v. In my simple way ...I conclude that the split charger is at fault.

Does this seem likely?

As background ........I do remember when I first got the Westy that the first time I put it on 240v hook up, there was a little bit of smoke from inside, close to the plug in point , which I put down to it not having been on hook up many times, if at all by the previous owner. I unplugged the power straight away and let it cool down with no problems since. Until now potentially.

As always all help is much appreciated.


Ps at the risk of stretching this marvellous assistance who should I talk to about trying to source the LCD screen and its housing unit for the eberspacher?

 

[TwentyOneThirtyFive]

Just checked mine and it doesn't charge the starter battery when on hookup. I didn't think it did anyway, so I'm not too upset :cry:

Was planning on some wiring alterations soon anyway, so will have a poke about while I'm in there to see what is what.

 

[TwentyOneThirtyFive]

Ps at the risk of stretching this marvellous assistance who should I talk to about trying to source the LCD screen and its housing unit for the eberspacher?

Mr Sidepod has had his heater in bits before and posted these links as sources of heater spares, maybe they are of use?

http://sales.butlertechnik.com/
http://www.hickleys.com/technical/ebers ... spares.php

There is a guy near Stanstead that advertises the servicing and fixing of them, maybe he can help?

http://www.campervans4u.com

 

[Swampy]

Dear Messrs Sidepod and 2135

I am most grateful to you both. I have learned a great deal today. No closer to working out why the starter went flat in the beginning. .....but understand a lot more than I did at 9am this morning.

Will check out the eberspacher stuff and report back

Many thanks

Swampy

 

[sidepod]

but the starter battery when measured across its terminals is 12.57v. The reading for the battery from the relay is 12.90v. In my simple way ...I conclude that the split charger is at fault.

No. I don't think your relay is faulty. The difference you're seeing is probably just a bit of volt drop over the cable run between the relay and the starter battery. Think long hose pipe down your garden. Lots of water pressure at the house, less at the end of the hose.
You'll notice the cable in question is quite a large cross sectional area. This is to combat the volt drop.

I'd be inclined to think you're not too far off the mark. I'll try to measure my own at the weekend.

So, you have two options next. You could get a length of similar size cable and install a temporary bypass link from the relay to the starter battery. Measure the voltage and see if its changed. Try to keep the length as close to originally installed.
If it has then you'll know you have a problem somewhere in the original cabling. It's worth noting that the harness does run along below the window past the point you saw the smoke.

The second option is to replace the battery. At least then you've eliminated that from the equation.

It could of course be a faulty alternator. Perhaps check the output from that with the engine running?

As with all electrical stuff, very time consuming. Process of elimination.

Regarding your Eber panel, are you talking about the control unit above the sink?
Is the heater not working? More info if you please.

Regards,

S.

 

[Swampy]

Dear sidepod

yes correct it is the LCD display itself which has degraded, the heater itself works fine. there is an almost identical display on the butler technik website which 2135 gave me, but it states quite clearly it is for water heaters only I am sure it says that for a reason but ......

Anyway its the only thing that's even remotely close, everywhere else has said "fraid not mate"

 

[Swampy]

Sorry realise that was a bit vague, heres the butler technik number

221000303400

 

[TwentyOneThirtyFive]

My timer involves waking up, realising it's cold and reaching for the heater switch... so can't do a comparison with mine!

If you remove your timer, does it have a part number on it? If it's like the thermostat, there are a couple of tabs that need pushing in top and bottom and the unit will slide out.

Probably best to give them a call and have a chat.

dan

 

[sidepod]

It may be worth contacting VW as it will have a VW factory part number. You may find one on a shelf somewhere. I have a great parts guy that I use. He's like a terrier. Once he's got a part number he's off and won't let go until he finds it somewhere.

If you were to open it up you may find the display is a satandard off the shelf unit possibly available from RS or Farnell? A bit of work with a soldering iron and you may be back in the game.

Set up a search on EvilBay.

Most of us swabs are running slightly older units so we don't have the luxury of a display.

When I got mine the heater wasn't working and I traced it to this unit. All of the PCB solder joints were dry. Once re-soldered all was peachy.

It depends what sort of person you are. You may be able to live with it, or, if you like to turn the tins in the cupboard around so the labels all face front then, you're going to have to fix it!

That's all I've got I'm affraid.

S.

 

[TwentyOneThirtyFive]

I think this might be the manual you need, complete with part numbers:

http://westfaliat4.info/EberLCDTimerInstallation.pdf

 

[TwentyOneThirtyFive]

There's also this manual:

http://westfaliat4.info/7day_norelayWM.pdf

Which lists a part number that matches the part you have found.

P/N 22 1000 30 40 00 (air heater 12/24 volt)

 

[calikev]

Wow you t4 boys are so helpfull thanks

 

[sidepod]

Fast fwd 20 yrs and all of you T5 types will be "Bobble Hats" just like us :lol:

S.

 

[TwentyOneThirtyFive]

"Bobble Hats"

My advice to the T5 boys and girls: Prepare for the nuclear winter of discontinued parts. Start hoarding spares now!

 

[sidepod]

Checked my charging output on hook-up this evening.

Measuring at the starter battery I'm showing 13.65v.

S.

 

[Swampy]

OK then more work to do over the weekend. I do have a spare 110A small truck battery which I might try fitting as there is a substantial difference between my 12.5 and your 13.5 on Hook up.

Dan, thanks for the stuff on the control unit for eberspacher. I am going to get the unit from Butler which states "for water heater only" as it looks the same. fingers crossed.

All I really want to do is get back to the camper pissed at 4 in the morning and warm my tootsies on a unit which has started itself at 2am - not much to ask is it?

swampy

 

[TwentyOneThirtyFive]

These days, if I drank until 4 in the morning I wouldn't be able to find my van!

Let us know how you get on, will be useful info if others have the same problem.
dan

 

[Swampy]

I will.................... this is very much work-in-progress