Beach Bouncy Suspension...

[bournemouthbeach]

Hi

We have a 2014 Beach and the suspension seams bouncy...

We did wonder whether it's because we have no weight in it.

Also wondered if lowering it with Sportline spring 30mm would help or not.

Thanks

Shaun

 

[WelshGas]

Hi

We have a 2014 Beach and the suspension seams bouncy...

We did wonder whether it's because we have no weight in it.

Also wondered if lowering it with Sportline spring 30mm would help or not.

Thanks

Shaun

It is based on a Van and rated for unto 7 people + luggage. So that might be the way forward, but ground clearance will be reduced.

 

[sidepod]

Lowering it will only change the ride height.
If it's too bouncy then uprate the dampers to adjustable units.

 

[owen_h]

Had my 2012 Beach lowered last year, went for the H&R -40mm springs rather than the Sportline -30mm (made by Eibach) ones as couple of people I spoke to thought the H&Rs were a softer ride despite being more drop. The front did drop 40mm but the rear I put the stiffer option on so that dropped 20mm.
I wouldn't say the van was bouncy before (agree with Sidepod, bounce will be down to dampers) My main aim was to reduce body roll and give a more planted feel when driving. This the H&Rs have defiantly achieved, the ride is harder but not uncomfortably so in most situations. What I would like to improve at some point is the response to sharp edge hits, eg speed bumps where the initial hit feels quite hard. I'm speculating here but possibly because the dampers are already sitting 40mm into their travel the initial response is over damped. Not sure if the damping rate of the stock dampers is linear through the travel or if it 'ramps up' through the stroke.
In hindsight I should have perhaps changed both the springs and dampers. Bilstein make a shock (the B8) which is 10mm shorter and intended for T5s hat have been lowered. You can get this either on its own or part of a B12 kit which includes the Eibach -30 springs. I could still fit the B8s but would have to pay the same fitting cost as before. Next level up is the B14 Coilovers which are adjustable, my understanding is that its the ride height that's adjustable though, not the damping rate? I'm not aware of any T5 damper units where you can adjust compression / rebound damping (in the same way you can with mountain bike suspension).
If changing the suspension and the van has done a reasonable mileage then also give some consideration to also changing the top mount / strut bearings (front). I may have been unlucky but have had an issue with one of mine creaking, been back to the fitters 3 or 4 times trying to get it resolved and its only in the last couple of weeks that it seems to be quiet. (keeping fingers crossed). Thought is that the rubber mounts have taken a long time to adjust to the slightly different suspension angle.

 

[sidepod]

Problem is, when you lower you effectively alter the suspension geometry , either adding or subtracting camber or castor.

The correct way to lower a vehicle is to lower the suspension attachment points by the same amount thus lowering the roll centre and maintaining design geometry.

Suspension geometry and its behaviour through travel is hugely complex.

Harsh bump condition is compression damping. You need a damper with adjustable compression and rebound damping.

Alternatively, come down in wheel diameter and fit higher profile tyres.

 

[SlidePods]

Problem is, when you lower you effectively alter the suspension geometry , either adding or subtracting camber or castor.

The correct way to lower a vehicle is to lower the suspension attachment points by the same amount thus lowering the roll centre and maintaining design geometry.

Suspension geometry and its behaviour through travel is hugely complex.

Harsh bump condition is compression damping. You need a damper with adjustable compression and rebound damping.

Alternatively, come down in wheel diameter and fit higher profile tyres.

Pod is absolutely right here ^^^^^

Also it is worth noting the camber of the rear wheels is not adjustable on a T5 so the lower you go the more camber you get..... this can cause you to shred the inside of your rear tyres (stepped wear) very quickly creating terrible road noise and a hole in your pocket!

I have driven T5's with coilovers from..... Vmaxx, Prosport, H&R, Bilstein B14, GAZ and Eibach

Along with most kinds of lowering springs.....

Of that list I recommend a few of the coilovers for ride quality but these mainly end up on vans that want a very low stance and the owners accept the effect upon the rear tyers!

I don't generally reccommend lowering springs.

For the vast majority of people I believe the best upgrade possible is the Bilstein B12 kit. It is fit and forget and the quality is fantastic!

Here is a pic of my van which has them installed....

 

[briwy]

Pod is absolutely right here ^^^^^

Also it is worth noting the camber of the rear wheels is not adjustable on a T5 so the lower you go the more camber you get..... this can cause you to shred the inside of your rear tyres (stepped wear) very quickly creating terrible road noise and a hole in your pocket!

View attachment 11954

Have to disagree with you here I'm afraid. The rear suspension on the Cali uses trailing arms so lowering or raising the height does not significantly affect the camber. Altering the front height will indeed alter the camber angle.

 

[sidepod]

Have to disagree with you here I'm afraid. The rear suspension on the Cali uses trailing arms so lowering or raising the height does not significantly affect the camber. Altering the front height will indeed alter the camber angle.

True but it depends on exactly where the pivot axis lies for the trailing arm.
Anyway, negative rear camber is good. Minimises lift-off oversteer.

 

[sidepod]

Not sure if the damping rate of the stock dampers is linear through the travel or if it 'ramps up' through the stroke.

No. Damping is linear regardless of damper rod position. It's damper rod speed that causes a change is resistance.
The only way to counteract a big harsh bump is with a blow off valve that effectively removes damping under extreme loads. Sadly not available on commercial vehicles.

 

[briwy]

True but it depends on exactly where the pivot axis lies for the trailing arm.
Anyway, negative rear camber is good. Minimises lift-off oversteer.

Agreed sidepod. The pivot is very slightly off 90 degrees to the front/back line of the van so it does affect it very slightly. Had a a big argument/discussion about this with the dealer as our van is wearing the inside edge of the rear tyres slightly and the camber is about half a degree negative to the VW spec. They were blaming the VB suspension but backed off when we got under the van and looked at the geometry. There is adjustment for tracking (on a cam arrangement) on the rear but none for camber which seems a shame as it would be easy enough to build in. Bean counters I guess.

 

[owen_h]

The rear tyre wear is something I had read about elsewhere as well. No evidence of it so far after about 3000miles since putting the new springs on. As I mentioned the rear hasn’t dropped that much anyway ~ 20mm. My aim was never to go for the slammed low look. Still running on the original 16” wheels (but might change to 17s at some point). Looking at the photo of Slidepods van on the B12s that looks lower than mine. Might be an illusion with the bigger wheels but they fill the arches more than mine. Do those wheel & tyre combo have a larger rolling diameter than std? If I was starting again I would probably go for the B12 setup as well. If I was ordering a T6 then would seriously look into the DCC option with adjustable settings (damping presumably).

All the various permutations (spring , damping, geometry etc) are taking me back to 1st year University days on a Mech & Prod engineering course! Might need to see if I still have the textbooks.

 

[sidepod]

Used to make rear camber plates for minis. Basically the outboard pickup bracket for the trailing arm pivot was slotted to allow adjustment vertically thus inducing camber.
Is this an option on the T5?

Is reported rear tyre wear on all vans or 4Motions. If it's 4Mo's it could be tracking (toe in/out).

 

[briwy]

Used to make rear camber plates for minis. Basically the outboard pickup bracket for the trailing arm pivot was slotted to allow adjustment vertically thus inducing camber.
Is this an option on the T5?

Is reported rear tyre wear on all vans or 4Motions. If it's 4Mo's it could be tracking (toe in/out).

Yes, remember the mini plates well, welded up and redrilled, used them on all my Minis together with longer bottom arms on the front. Got to get round to doing it on my Innocenti.
On the Cali I think it might be easier to modify the inner bracket which is where the tracking adjustment is. If it becomes a major problem could be worth having a look at it.

I don't know if it's all vans or indeed all 4Motions. We didn't have the problem on our previous 4Motion so perhaps ours is a rogue. The dealer refuses to do anything and TBH I'm not too bothered as it's about 1mm different inside/outside edge after about 14k miles. I'm a bit paranoid about tyre tread so generally change them well before the legal limit is reached so the 1mm difference won't really affect us.

 

[gileswater]

ok
i would value any opinions regarding my beach on this suspension topic.
i own a t5 2015 Beach van .
Almost immediately after purchase i started to try and improve the sloppy suspension,
I had no concrete advice as how to achieve this ,uniquely forums etc,,,,,
firstly by fitting Eibach springs which are sold as a VW option in the cali/beach catalogue .
(These springs apparently reduce the ride height by 30mm.)
at the same time i also fitted a set of sports line wheels (18" 255/45) also from VW options
with the intention of increasing tyre > road surface area (and also because they look good )!
then a a bit later ,fitted a set of H&R rollbars (2or 3mm ( cannot remember precisely) thicker than OE)
And the result ?
the h& r bars were the single biggest improvement to handling preventing the vehicle from swaying all over the place around the bends and sharpening up the steering ,
As for the rest , i found the eibach springs to be mismatched to the oe dampers ,the suspension would occaisionally bottom out (over speed bumps for example )... and unfortunately /strangely produce an uncomfortably stiff/hard ride .

So maybe i made too many mods to quickly , but
After living with that set up for a year and still not contented with the result i deciding to seek further improvement and have replaced the OE dampers with a set of bilstein b8 dampers and in combination with the eibach springs this has resulted in much better damping and no bottoming out
but it is still delivering a hard ride whicjh becomes quickly tiring .
is this due to the wheels or springs ?

i suspect the springs
the bilstein appear to have always been highly recommended for the t5 in combination with a shorter spring . and the ride was hard before fitting them.

but there do not seem to be any short lengths /softer options out there ? maybe H&R
as for the wheels I havent yet fitting back on the OE wheels to compare the difference .

So the next step ???

I have several thoughts and would appreciate any advice

a) return to 16/17 "wheels
b)H&R springs as mentioned above (softer ? with 40mm drop) in combination with the B8 dampers (or other spring )
c)OE springs in combination with bilstein b6 dampers,raising the height
d) return to the OE suspension ,retain only wheels and rollbars

 

[Bobbybus]

ok
i would value any opinions regarding my beach on this suspension topic.
i own a t5 2015 Beach van .
Almost immediately after purchase i started to try and improve the sloppy suspension,
I had no concrete advice as how to achieve this ,uniquely forums etc,,,,,
firstly by fitting Eibach springs which are sold as a VW option in the cali/beach catalogue .
(These springs apparently reduce the ride height by 30mm.)
at the same time i also fitted a set of sports line wheels (18" 255/45) also from VW options
with the intention of increasing tyre > road surface area (and also because they look good )!
then a a bit later ,fitted a set of H&R rollbars (2or 3mm ( cannot remember precisely) thicker than OE)
And the result ?
the h& r bars were the single biggest improvement to handling preventing the vehicle from swaying all over the place around the bends and sharpening up the steering ,
As for the rest , i found the eibach springs to be mismatched to the oe dampers ,the suspension would occaisionally bottom out (over speed bumps for example )... and unfortunately /strangely produce an uncomfortably stiff/hard ride .

So maybe i made too many mods to quickly , but
After living with that set up for a year and still not contented with the result i deciding to seek further improvement and have replaced the OE dampers with a set of bilstein b8 dampers and in combination with the eibach springs this has resulted in much better damping and no bottoming out
but it is still delivering a hard ride whicjh becomes quickly tiring .
is this due to the wheels or springs ?

i suspect the springs
the bilstein appear to have always been highly recommended for the t5 in combination with a shorter spring . and the ride was hard before fitting them.

but there do not seem to be any short lengths /softer options out there ? maybe H&R
as for the wheels I havent yet fitting back on the OE wheels to compare the difference .

So the next step ???

I have several thoughts and would appreciate any advice

a) return to 16/17 "wheels
b)H&R springs as mentioned above (softer ? with 40mm drop) in combination with the B8 dampers (or other spring )
c)OE springs in combination with bilstein b6 dampers,raising the height
d) return to the OE suspension ,retain only wheels and rollbars

I know this post has laid dormant for a while, but what did you do and how did you like the result?

 

[Gavinskii]

I have the sportline suspension on my 2014 Beach and running the van on 16” winter tyres now or the stock 17” wheels the van has a really nice ride and handles way more dynamically than a van should. I have run this set up with 5 adults heavily laden going to the alps and more usually 2 up pottering about and I am extremely pleased with the ride.