Brexit , this forum and travel

[frenchie]

Velma.s Dad. I work in Germany and have done for many years,and talk to them each week. when was the last time you did. as to your analysis, well that's the same as the news papers. anyway that's my last word on the subject. F

 

[Velma's Dad]

Velma.s Dad. I work in Germany and have done for many years,and talk to them each week. when was the last time you did. as to your analysis, well that's the same as the news papers. anyway that's my last word on the subject. F

I really wasn't trying to wind you up.

But just imagine I was, let's say, an Australian who worked in (say) the tech sector, regularly visiting over several years UK businesses in (say) London, Cambridge and Glasgow, and meeting the staff of those businesses and other Britons in those cities socially. From that I'd almost certainly have formed the strong impression that Brits were pretty universally against Brexit. Then, wow, what a surprise I'd then have got on the morning of 27 June last year. As a lot of us did, even Boris and Nige.

That's been one of the problems of the past couple of years. We all form our opinions not just from the papers we read (well a least we know they are partisan) but from the people in the bubble we inhabit, whom we assume are representative of the whole population but who really, really aren't.

For what it's worth, I think properly conducted opinion research (not the stuff commissioned by newspapers) is capable of giving reasonable reliable insights on public attitudes, although only to within a certain margin of precision.

 

[Borris]

Thanks for positive comments, this has made me feel good now but I think you now also need to convince everyone else in Germany of this. The news in Germany is very negative about the UK at the moment

Well that is, to a certain extent understandable. By leaving, the UK is rocking the EU boat and that inturn will have big implications for everyone else in it. Members aren't suposed to leave the EU and if they dare to try then every thing possible must be done to make it as awkward and painful for them as possible. Accordingly, despite what they might say, the EU is desparate to use the UK as an example of what might happen to any member state that contemplates following us out. As Germany is the single most powerful EU member it is only to be expected that the media will to some extent reflect the EUs general thrust and portray the UK in a negative manner. However, like here in Britain, I would be very surprised if everyone in Germany believes everything that they are being told in the news.

 

[Amarillo]

However, like here in Britain, I would be very surprised if everyone in Germany believes what they are being told in the news.

Recently, on a campsite just outside Porto, I happened to chat with a Belarusian man who was on a solo motorbike tour of Western Europe. I was, he said, the first British person he had spoken with. (For those who might be unfamiliar with Belarus, it is the last remaining Stalinist state in Europe.) He told me that in Belarus all media is state controlled, and when he asked about Brexit was somewhat surprised to learn that Britain is a deeply divided nation on the matter, believing instead that at last the heroic British people have stood alone in Europe against the Evil Capitalist Empire of the European Union - or words to that effect. He also believed that the British were absolutely united except a few traitors supporting the EU.

So cherish the independent bias of the Daily Wail and Daily Depress.



Follow my blog: www.au-revoir.eu

 

[Borris]

Recently, on a campsite just outside Porto, I happened to chat with a Belarusian man who was on a solo motorbike tour of Western Europe. I was, he said, the first British person he had spoken with. (For those who might be unfamiliar with Belarus, it is the last remaining Stalinist state in Europe.) He told me that in Belarus all media is state controlled, and when he asked about Brexit was somewhat surprised to learn that Britain is a deeply divided nation on the matter, believing instead that at last the heroic British people have stood alone in Europe against the Evil Capitalist Empire of the European Union - or words to that effect. He also believed that the British were absolutely united except a few traitors supporting the EU.

So cherish the independent bias of the Daily Wail and Daily Depress.



Follow my blog: www.au-revoir.eu

Interesting, although, editorial bias isn't the exclusive preserve of the Mail and the Express.

 

[MattBW]

Velma.s Dad. I work in Germany and have done for many years,and talk to them each week. when was the last time you did. as to your analysis, well that's the same as the news papers. anyway that's my last word on the subject. F

Any analysis is going to have a bias, including our own experiences, based on who we know. You can't really judge a countries overall status based on who you know, friends family and work colleagues as Brexit has proven. The majority of my friends at work were remain, probably 90%+, It clearly wasn't the case for 52% of the population however.

Our social and work circles determine our world view but they are often aren't genuine truth.

 

[Velma's Dad]

So cherish the independent bias of the Daily Wail and Daily Depress.

Interesting, although, editorial bias isn't the exclusive preserve of the Mail and the Express.

Well it's always intrigued me that the Daily Mail and the Mail on Sunday ended up taking opposite positions on Brexit, despite being under the same ownership. And The Times declared for Remain whereas The Sunday Times opted for Leave.

I guess it means we, the public, need to take some personal responsibility for judging the context of messages we receive, and to check out the stance of those creating the messages, whether it's via the traditional or social media.

But let's face it, most us choose the papers and websites that mirror our ingrained political positions. I try to read the Telegraph occasionally but much more often swerve towards the Guardian on the news-stand.

 

[MattBW]

That was probably a commercial decision to keep custom of both sides.

I don't read any newspapers, I prefer to get the info and make my own decision.

 

[Ian789]

The former all import with them a package of primary, secondary and sometimes tertiary, education paid for by another nation. The latter will sadly return home with this value.

[/QUOTE]

Unfortunately this sounds a little like exploitation to me. Let's get other countries to pay for the education and training of the workforce Western Europe needs. Of course if it leaves Eastern Europe short of Nurses, Carers, Doctors or Dentists then that's their problem.

 

[WelshGas]

I thought the Original Post was about EU tourists being welcomed/not welcomed in the UK.
Of what relevance is all this **** about the impartiality of newspapers, opinion polls etc:
ALL news is tainted with bias unless seen/experienced by yourself.
Just answer the OP's question and if you wish to moan about the impartiality of the Press/Opinion Polls etc: then Start another thread that those who wish to keep on Topic can then IGNORE.

 

[Amarillo]

Unfortunately this sounds a little like exploitation to me. Let's get other countries to pay for the education and training of the workforce Western Europe needs. Of course if it leaves Eastern Europe short of Nurses, Carers, Doctors or Dentists then that's their problem.

I'm not sure I'd call it exploitation, but generally I agree: immigration is good for countries, emigration bad.

I recall the late 80s when thousands of NHS trained staff and local education authority trained teachers emigrated, especially to Canada and Australia.


Follow my blog: www.au-revoir.eu

 

[Ian789]

I have not heard or read any suggestion of automatic severe restriction on EU citizens entering the UK for short visits, but quite clearly there will be some inconvenience.

But your first post on this subject was a little bit of scaremongering about what 'could' happen if Britain placed visa restrictions on certain EU countries and then there was retaliation from those countries and the EU in general. Is there a possibility that this type of negative whataboutery might make some people concerned about the future welcome on both sides ?

As to Gibraltar my understanding is that the delays were a direct result of the Spanish Government's policy. You remember, the same Government that sends police with riot shields to stop people voting.

Sorry Jen for going off topic again - only saw Tom's replies this morning. No more general EU comments I promise. Like everybody on the forum I believe visitors will be most welcome both here and in Europe in the future

 

[Borris]

I thought the Original Post was about EU tourists being welcomed/not welcomed in the UK.
Of what relevance is all this **** about the impartiality of newspapers, opinion polls etc:
ALL news is tainted with bias unless seen/experienced by yourself.
Just answer the OP's question and if you wish to moan about the impartiality of the Press/Opinion Polls etc: then Start another thread that those who wish to keep on Topic can then IGNORE.

The OPs original thread included the following sentence:
"The German media is making it that the UK no longer like foreigners I hope this is not true."
He also mentioned the following in a later post:
"The news in Germany is very negative about the UK at the moment"

I would have thought that the comments about media bias whether in Germany or the UK have a direct relevance to the OPs original thread and his above mentioned comment. His thread detailed his concerns about his future as a member on this forum and also how he and others from the EU will be treated in the UK as a result of Brexit. His perceptions and his thread exist as a direct result of what he has read/heard in the media. Therefore, in my opinion at least, discussing media bias in relation to peoples perceptions of the UK post Brexit is entirely relevant to Wolfburg's thread.

 

[WelshGas]

I comment relating to " Don't believe everything you read in the newspapers or listen to on the radio/tv is appropriate but to go on and on is boring and to pick out the tabloids as the worst offenders - personally glancing at them all on the newsstand , well don't see much difference between any of them and the BBC is so biased its a wonder it keeps going. At least they can't censor the Parliament TV coverage. Roll on 2019.

Back to planning my next trip to the Mainland.

 

[Amarillo]

But your first post on this subject was a little bit of scaremongering about what 'could' happen if Britain placed visa restrictions on certain EU countries and then there was retaliation from those countries and the EU in general. Is there a possibility that this type of negative whataboutery might make some people concerned about the future welcome on both sides ?

Yes - an end to the free movement of people was a cornerstone of the Brexit campaign. There is a possibility that there will be a visa requirement for visitors to the U.K. from some EU nations.

As to Gibraltar my understanding is that the delays were a direct result of the Spanish Government's policy. You remember, the same Government that sends police with riot shields to stop people voting.

I was simply reminded of what crossing national borders used to be like in the 70s - indeed, my father recalls travelling in Spain and Portugal in the 50s and requiring a visa to do so. Brexit has very real implications for travel by British VW campervan owners in the future, albeit partly mitigated by the Shengen area.

I still feel that the most likely outcome is continued visa free travel throughout the EU once we leave, but that is by no means certain - and we are very likely to face customs checks unless we remain in the customs' union.


Follow my blog: www.au-revoir.eu

 

[LowMan]

I see Brexit is getting closer now and was wondering what the future holds for us on here, I notice we have many foreign members now but the club is UK based, I am hoping we are still welcome? Also we like to travel to the UK especially Cornwall and Highlands and soon it may be difficult for us. The German media is making it that the UK no longer like foreigners I hope this is not true.

Hi Wolfsburg

I've not commented on here for a while, but reading your post, felt compelled to do so. I have to say it saddens me you feel the need to ask this question, but given the current climate, it's understandable.

I can assure you, despite what you may be led to believe, you'll always be welcome here.

I appreciate that recent events have, in some way, opened Pandora's box and allowed certain voices to grab headlines, but I'm sure I speak for a majority of people who would say they are not representative of the U.K, and we remain recognising we are stronger together.

Hope we see you in Cornwall or the Highlands very soon x