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Changing roof elevating jack ( roof dropping on one side )

Nomad

Nomad

Messages
27
Location
shropshire
Vehicle
T5 SE 174
Apologies but this is posted elsewhere on forums as well..

Hi, I used the van last week in half term (2006 Cali) one owner from new 60,000 miles.
After raising roof it was noticed that the right hand side was not as tight as should be so extended again in case I had released button too early. During day roof descended significantly. I did a google search and read a good description of possible jack failure on RHS. What did I do? Well I raised roof again a used a strap to hold roof in up position for next 3 days until time to leave site. On departure day I attempted to lower roof automatically but there was no way this would be possible as RHS fell very quickly and there was a significant danger of damaging structure.
I had read about manual drop down and attempted IAW the manual page 20!!!
Advice was not available from any of the 3 dealers I phoned within 50 miles no one had ever done it.
What did I learn?
1. Remove sunglass holder and then remove lighting panel is fairly easy and not stressful.
2. To remove control panel the manual suggests using a screwdriver and easing out the panel, what you need is two not one tools and NOT a screwdriver. the panel is held by the old type car radio flexible tabs, what you need is 2 thin metal strips, one each side to allow forward and then downward movement of the panel...gently.. I used cutlery two thin knives worked well.
3.the diagram in the book is useless. The panel only has to move out 2-3 mm to be clear of the locking tabs it can then be gently rotated fwd and down, hard to describe but two people helped one on each tab.
4. Once the panel is out, there isn't a lot of free space all you can see is a 8cm-6cm shiney plate, no fixings and to the right a flat headed crew. you rotate the screw anti clockwise as directed, I did half turns waiting for something to happen and did prep upstairs and bellows for lowering, What you need is 2 or 3 FULL turns then roof descends quite quickly.
5. Now where is the tie down kit that I got with the van when new? Velcro straps and plastic attachment for roof rail slots and awning rail.....Found and used Max 60kmph...
and home slowly.
I am going to replace jack myself £100 labour to people who don't know what they are doing and in my recent experience enjoy leaving oily hand prints every where is to be avoided. Any body done it? (jack£300inc)
Help please :) :D
 
Re: Changing roof elevating jack

WOW!
:clap
Great description which I'm sure many people will appreciate, I'm going to print it off and put it in my user manual (just in case :x )
:thanks
PS a guide of how you change the "jack" would be great too :cool:
 
Re: Changing roof elevating jack

Hi just followed some very comprehensive instructions on how to change the jack. i thought all had gone well until final stage and upon re~pressurising system to raise roof from a mid position, with all connections made hydraulic and mechanical the hydraulic fluid just leaked out from rear connection and followed drain line to rear of van and drain..... :headbang

so what i am after is information on refilling the reservoir wherever it is and any ideas from members. i have checked that the hyd lines were not trapped and blocked etc perhaps just unlucky with the jack?

may have to go to dealer after all.....any dealer out there done this job before, mine cant even change the rear brake light without making a mess of the job..thanks :help
 
Re: Changing roof elevating jack

after finding the picture i can now confirm that item 14 a seal was not mentioned in the detail i was following and i have just found 2 in the old jack after probing around with small screwdriver. feel a bit gutted. :headbang
i will try to fill with syringe into jack after removing conectors and fitting seals. they are only 2~3mm in size.
i will cut and paste the instructions as they are very good...but remember the seal...
 
Re: Changing roof elevating jack

NOT MY WORK BUT VERY USEFUL, JUST ADD.....WHEN REFITTING HYD CONNECTORS ENSURE YOU HAVE FITTED SMALL RUBBER SEALS FROM OLD JACK OR NEW ITEMS.

OK the solution was easy but expensive. The system consists of a pump and 2 hydraulic rams. Pump at front of roof and the rams on each side situated outside of the canvas. The rams can be removed without taking apart the rest of the system and can be removed independently.
The rams work on a push me pull you principal the direction is operated by the valve sensors. When the pump is not operating the system is balanced, i.e. no pressure in the system. (But I think the roof would need to be supported for this to be completely true).
Conversations with VW dealers ranged from, bring it in and we will diagnose it to there is not much diagnosis that can be done. Try replacing the ram first £225 + VAT if that doesnt work then its the pump. £900 + VAT. I have access to the official VW manual and that is of no help and is not precise with partial dismantling either.
So I bought the ram (both sides are identical and same ram used from outset) and worked out how the system was likely to work. Armed with that info here are the instructions for changing a ram.
It is a simple and clean job.
Tools needed.
Acro prop. 2 pieces clean plywood about 30cm square. Set of Torx sokets. Good pair of pliers. Usual screwwdrivers. Circlip pliers protective sheet about 1m square, Allen keys.set of good steps or work platform. 2 people are useful. Replacement cable ties.
Method.
Elevate roof about halfway. Prop using acro prop positioned between front seats using the plywood top and bottom to spread load. Protect trim further with clean cloth if necessary. Working on platform remove the 2 black plastic covers. Place some protective sheeting between the mechanical system and the canvas roof and have this ready to hang down under the ram when remove. Just in case of fluid spill. I did not experience any.Remove the 2 grub screws with an allen key from the rear hinge mechanism and also using circlip pliers the circlip from the from hinge remove the pin. This circlip does appear to be soft and bends/fatigues easily. Take care or have a new one for reassembly. It is in the inside and a pain!! Remove any further securing screws/bolts from the ram. Cut the cable ties securing wiring and hydraulic lines. Not the routing or take a photo first. DO NOT CREASE ANY OF THESE LINES. Take the new ram. DO NOT ATTEMPT TO MOVE THE PISTON IN THE RAM, I KNOW IT WILL BE IN THE WRONG POSITION!! IT is pre filled with fluid do not upset the balance. Using pliers remove the shiny metal hydraulic line securing clip by pulling along direction of ram on the old ram. Also slide out the electronic sensor housing. Gently pull out line from its location. Do exactly the same for the new ram except there will be a brass pin instead of the line. Place the line into the new ram and replace clip. Now do the same for the other end of the ram. Make sure everything remains clean. Carefully locate the new ram into position. Ensuring the acro stays in place operate the pump in "open roof direction" very carefully a little at a time to push out the operating arm in the new ram. When it lines up with the locating hole in the mechanism locate. Replacement is a reversal of dismantling. Take care with the circlip. Cable tie on the lines ensuring original routing and NO CREASES.
I then operated roof in the opening direction. The pump continued a bit longer than normal whilst the system purged and balanced itself.
For me the original problem solved and not necessary to replace pump so cheaper! Hope someone finds this useful. any question please get back to me. Sorry its long winded but!! If you have to force anything you are doing it wrong!
Ali B
 
Re: Changing roof elevating jack

thanks Ali - superb post. Same problem on my 2010 cali so I'm going to attempt this fix shortly.
 
Re: Changing roof elevating jack

Hi sitrep on my situation. All fluid leaked away during jack/ram change. van fixed by VW at Cowfold. I had to drive the 200 miles at 40 mph with the emergency tie downs in place. All roof linings have to be removed to refill reservoir.
It is not an easy job.
It can go wrong very quickly.
my suggestion: find a dealer that knows what they are doing....probably the hardest job.
Take it to them and pay the cash..in my case region £300. All labour.
 
Re: Changing roof elevating jack

I had hydraulic failure on the drivers side a few days ago - severe sagging. From this and previous posts i can see it was the jack. Initially i could not get the roof down but with improvised help from the AA I managed to get it down without reverting to the awkward manual solution and tie down straps. Can see from this and other posts the jack is £300, my question is has anyone had the repair done by a specialist hydraulics repairer instead., is it a part they could acquire more cost effectively.. My van is 2009 and out of warranty so looking at other cost effective options before goingto the dealer.
 
Re: Changing roof elevating jack

Hi

I had the same problem; roof sagging on driver's side and just out of warranty. I've been quoted £1700 for a new pump fitted which is beyond a shock! Now wondering if I should take out an expensive VW warranty in case the other pump goes, or the fridge or something else....

Simon
 
Re: Changing roof elevating jack

We also have this problem, we are only three months out of warranty and have been quoted £1850 for the repair from our local dealer.

Are we looking at another common fault with the California?
 
Re: Changing roof elevating jack ( roof dropping on one side

Hi Duffy

Our dealer said that, as our Cali had a FSH, VW were making a "contribution" of 39%. Maybe worth checking you are getting this?

Simon
 
Re: Changing roof elevating jack ( roof dropping on one side

Thank you Simon, they advised I call customer services to ask for some goodwill, I will do this tomorrow.

Thanks again
 
Re: Changing roof elevating jack ( roof dropping on one side

Duffy said:
Thank you Simon, they advised I call customer services to ask for some goodwill, I will do this tomorrow.

Thanks again

If you are only three months out of warranty then you don't have to call customer care yourself, all dealers have access to a goodwill calculator that will tell them how much contribution from VW there is. They should also check factory goodwill as well.

cheers
 
Re: Changing roof elevating jack ( roof dropping on one side

Good to see German corporations are as mad a American Corporations.

Goodwill Calculator :lol:
 
Re: Changing roof elevating jack ( roof dropping on one side

Update on my sagging roof post 11/8/14 on my 2009 vehicle, spoke to several hydraulics repairers but no one interested in looking at it so only option was the dealer for diagnosis. After having it for a week turned outto be the hydraulic pump not the ram. Then my heart stopped as knew from previous posts the cost. No reason given as to why it failed , they said it was the first they had seen but not sure. Yes folks that part is £900+ vat + labour so starring at £1500. They said the part was specially engineered and was VW only part so not many made. I managed to get cost knocked down a bit for goodwill but others beware and keep your sink funds topped up for this one.
 
Re: Changing roof elevating jack ( roof dropping on one side

Every time VW repair anything they always say it's the first one they've seen lol
 
Re: Changing roof elevating jack ( roof dropping on one side

We have done a few pumps, maybe five since T5 California's have been out so not that common and if a van centre doesn't see many California's then that could be a genuine statement from them. It's roughly three and a half hours work to change the pump and bleed the system out, but the hydraulic oil is expensive per litre as well.

cheers
 
Re: Changing roof elevating jack ( roof dropping on one side

ragsamuffin said:
Update on my sagging roof post 11/8/14 on my 2009 vehicle, spoke to several hydraulics repairers but no one interested in looking at it so only option was the dealer for diagnosis. After having it for a week turned outto be the hydraulic pump not the ram. Then my heart stopped as knew from previous posts the cost. No reason given as to why it failed , they said it was the first they had seen but not sure. Yes folks that part is £900+ vat + labour so starring at £1500. They said the part was specially engineered and was VW only part so not many made. I managed to get cost knocked down a bit for goodwill but others beware and keep your sink funds topped up for this one.

If you keep the old pump you should be able to get it repaired, or repair it yourself ?
 
Re: Changing roof elevating jack ( roof dropping on one side

Cheers Alex SMG that's reassuring for members to know its not common fault. I would guess the dealer i saw would mot see too many Calis and fact they had it so long meant they had to do a lot of homework to get it done right. I remember the service manager saying the hydraulic oil took a while to get hold off.
 
Re: Changing roof elevating jack ( roof dropping on one side

It may not be common but my new September 2014 van was supplied to me with a roof that sags on one side after just a few minutes. It's going in to be fixed tomorrow, hopefully. With only 300 miles on the clock, not the best of starts.
 
Re: Changing roof elevating jack ( roof dropping on one side

Having had a new pump fitted recently, I have the failed pump sitting in a box. Like a previous post I was thinking about getting it repaired. Does anyone know of any mechanic/garage who could do this?
 
Re: Changing roof elevating jack ( roof dropping on one side

ragsamuffin said:
Cheers Alex SMG that's reassuring for members to know its not common fault. I would guess the dealer i saw would mot see too many Calis and fact they had it so long meant they had to do a lot of homework to get it done right. I remember the service manager saying the hydraulic oil took a while to get hold off.

The oil is the same as any VW part; as long as it is available it can be ordered for the next day.

cheers
 
Re: Changing roof elevating jack ( roof dropping on one side

Sorry for chiming in on a thread that's been cold for a while, but I thought other owners might be interested to hear my experience with the roof dropping on my California:

I bought the van ex-demo in March this year (from Benfields in Newcastle) exactly 1 year old and 9k on the clock. There were a few problems but largely cosmetic and with the help of SMG I soon sorted all that out. The roof was another matter entirely - almost from our first use I became aware that it dropped significantly on the nearside, however it was a bit inconsistent - some nights were would have absolutely no problem, others you would wake up and it would have dropped quite a lot, so much so that I was worried about the strain it would be putting on the elevating jack on the offside.

Repeated calls to Benfield in Newcastle were useless and they hadn't been much use when I bought the van in the first place, to be honest I got tired of dealing with them very quickly and can't really recommend them. The nearest VW Commercial Dealer to me is just outside Leeds (Cleckheaton) and so I took the van to them and asked them to take a look, what a difference in service!

The first time I took it in they left it elevated for two whole days and the bloody thing didn't drop, so I had no option but to take the van back and see what would happen. I then went touring for a week in Scotland and the thing dropped nearly every night, so when we returned it was back down to Leeds ...... and this time they got it sorted. Turns out that they had some other owners with similar problems and has been discussed here, the problem is with the PUMP, not the elevating jack - but it's a very expensive fix. The pump has two non-return valves (one per side), so what they did was simply swap the connections round and leave it overnight to test it. Thankfully the roof dropped on the opposite side, so they knew the pump was faulty and replaced it under warranty.

As an engineer and petrolhead of many years standing, I am the fussiest b****er in the world and when I got it back checked out the van very carefully. They did a truly excellent job, none of the trim was marked, no greasy finger prints and the the new pump is actually quieter than the previous one, so I am very happy. I'm a bit disappointed that the van - which for my wife and I was a significant investment - has caused us some much heartache already, but we're getting there and the van is a lot more sorted than when Benfield in Newcastle sold it to me. I can recommend the West Yorkshire VW Van Centre 100%.

Martyn
 
Re: Changing roof elevating jack ( roof dropping on one side

Hi Martyn,

Nine times out of ten it is the hydraulic ram on one side when they drop when left up. Roof pump is more likely to be the cause when there is an issue with closing. Think we have done 3 or 4 pumps in total since they were out. They are correct about the valves in the pump. If it is left up for a long period of time and doesn't do anything then get them to lower it and put it back up as that can induce the problem.

Glad yours is sorted though :cool

cheers
 

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