Comfort Discriminates against Beaches

[golfie]

I sold my SE180 in March, suspended my Comfort insurance and ordered a new Beach 150. I contacted Comfort today for a quotation for the new vehicle. I was very surprised when I was told that because this was a Beach I could only be covered in the EU for a maximum of 90 days in the 12 months and my annual total mileage was limited to10000 miles and the premium was over £500. Apparently if I had purchased a "fully equipped" vehicle like an Ocean, Coast or Grand I would not be subjected to these conditions and the premium would have cheaper. Fortunately there are other companies out there that will cover me for longer in the EU and for a smaller premium. It is a shame as I had been with them for many years and provided insurance at a competitive rate.

 

[Perfectos]

Did comfort say why lack of a kitchen would affect their ability to insure your vehicle for 90 days or greater, whilst being used abroad but not in the U.K. ? Or indeed why a Beach should be restricted by mileage vs same base model with a kitchen?

Sounds like total BS from comfort, yet a another set of peculiar issues this broker invents that other brokers seem to cover with no issue. They obviously don’t want your busines.

take your business elsewhere.

 

[Calimili]

I think the data coming from Beach claims is higher than Oceans, hence the higher premium.
Could it be that Beaches are used far more than Oceans by many as normal cars, people and/or goods carriers, because of the loading capabilities and lighter weight ? Therefore more mileage and more risk statistically on Beaches than Oceans...?
This would be my rationalisation, I have no data on either model, but it seems a reasonable explanation ?

 

[OGII]

Could it be that Beaches are used far more than Oceans by normal people

One of the downsides of speedreading is that I saw the text above (and not the unedited original from Calimili.

 

[andyinluton]

Probably concerned about all those camping gaz stoves balanced on wobbly home made tables.

 

[rod_vw]

A Beach isn't a motor caravan (camper) according to the DVLA requirements, it should be registered as a 'van with windows'. They don't meet the criteria see https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...van/converting-a-vehicle-into-a-motor-caravan

 

[Perfectos]

A Beach isn't a motor caravan (camper) according to the DVLA requirements, it should be registered as a 'van with windows'. They don't meet the criteria see https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...van/converting-a-vehicle-into-a-motor-caravan

Not according to my V5 which States “California Beach” “Motor Caravan” the DVLA change to MPV classification came later !

not sure that your comment is particularly relevant to the Insurance issue raised in this thread / title and the initial comments from the op regarding Comfort insurance, particularly as there is already a well discussed thread on the subject you raise elsewhere on the forum and you don’t try to make any clear point relating to the issue raised by the op in your post other than stating that the Beach doesn’t meet current DVLA criteria which has no effect on the potential time used as a Camper whilst abroad and limiting the Annual mileage ?

I don’t see that a very similar vehicle as an Ocean, that is specifically designed and marketed as is capable of exactly the same use as an ocean should make a difference to insurance mileage and potential time / cover for time spent abroad, in fact applying Comforts logic it should make it cheaper?

would you be kind enough to elaborate on your point ?

 

[rod_vw]

Not according to my V5 which States “California Beach” “Motor Caravan” the DVLA change to MPV classification came later !

not sure that your comment is particularly relevant to the Insurane issue raised in this thread / title and the initial comments from the op regarding Comfort insurance, particularly as there is already a well discussed thread on the subject you raise elsewhere on the forum and you don’t try to make any clear point relating to the issue raised by the op in your post other than stating that the Beach doesn’t meet current DVLA criteria which has no effect on the potential time used as a Camper whilst abroad and limiting the Annual mileage ?

I don’t see that a very similar vehicle as an Ocean, that is specifically designed and marketed as is capable of exactly the same use as an ocean should make a difference to insurance mileage and potential time / cover for time spent abroad, in fact applying Comforts logic it should make it cheaper?

would you be kind enough to elaborate on your point ?

By all means...

According to the DVLA a Motor Caravan' MUST have cooking facilities built in otherwise they will only register it as a 'Van with Windows'. Ask all of the converters here in the UK, they have all had to toe the line even down to the graphics etc. and pop-tops don't comply!
Yes I know that VW have managed to wriggle their way around it some how but it does make a mockery of the rules.
The big test would be if someone converted a genuine VW Window Van with right sliding door into a camper using all California fittings. I wonder how the DVLA would register that?

 

[MattC]

By all means...

According to the DVLA a Motor Caravan' MUST have cooking facilities built in otherwise they will only register it as a 'Van with Windows'. Ask all of the converters here in the UK, they have all had to toe the line even down to the graphics etc. and pop-tops don't comply!
Yes I know that VW have managed to wriggle their way around it some how but it does make a mockery of the rules.
The big test would be if someone converted a genuine VW Window Van with right sliding door into a camper using all California fittings. I wonder how the DVLA would register that?

Getting a little off-topic re the original Comfort Insurance question, so apologies, but re VW "wriggling their way around the rules" for a DVLA Motor Caravan registration, there's a blog here where Jerba explain it quite well.
https://www.jerbacampervans.co.uk/r...with-windows-to-a-motorcaravan-the-conundrum/
The crucial points seem to be (i) the converter/"conversion" must have certified full Type Approval, and (ii) the "conversion" must take place on a brand new van ahead of its first registration.
Hence VW with its factory-built California, and a handful of converters too, can still register their new vans as Motor Caravans. But your suggestion for someone converting a window van using full California fittings would presumably fail!

In passing I notice that today VW have unveiled on their website their Motorhome Qualified Converters, of which there are currently four in the UK (including Jerba, I'm pleased to say as a happy owner). While I totally get that many Cali owners like the VW factory built aspect of their vans, this potentially adds to the choice for consideration - VW actually state of these Qualified Converters "...after all it is still a Volkswagen Commercial Vehicle"

 

[Perfectos]

By all means...

According to the DVLA a Motor Caravan' MUST have cooking facilities built in otherwise they will only register it as a 'Van with Windows'. Ask all of the converters here in the UK, they have all had to toe the line even down to the graphics etc. and pop-tops don't comply!
Yes I know that VW have managed to wriggle their way around it some how but it does make a mockery of the rules.
The big test would be if someone converted a genuine VW Window Van with right sliding door into a camper using all California fittings. I wonder how the DVLA would register that?

I still don’t see the relationship between your statement and the relevance of the OP thread ? What has DVLA status got to do with Comfort insurance limiting one particular model of a transporter based “Camper” doing less than 10,000 miles per year or 90 days in 12 months abroad?

I am missing something or are you posting in the wrong thread ?

 

[jackster]

The new beach does have a kitchen built into the side ( just a job and a worktop but that's enough to count as a motorcaravan.)

Comfort would only insure my beach if I never parked it on a road overnight!!!! Apparently I'd have to sleep in it! Even with a tracker... Bonkers

 

[jackster]

Camping and Caravanning club gave me a good deal

 

[BikerGran]

The relevance questioned above is that Comfort are motor caravan/motorhome specialist insurers.

 

[Borris]

Motor insurance is just another form of highway robbery. Yes, it's both necessary and desirable but it does enable both the insurance companies and the government to over milk that good old cash cow.

Since the DVLA changed the Beach description to that of MPV it's become both more difficult and more expensive to insure one. At least that's my experience.

I think the data coming from Beach claims is higher than Oceans, hence the higher premium.
Could it be that Beaches are used far more than Oceans by many as normal cars, people and/or goods carriers, because of the loading capabilities and lighter weight ? Therefore more mileage and more risk statistically on Beaches than Oceans...?
This would be my rationalisation, I have no data on either model, but it seems a reasonable explanation ?

I cannot imagine that Beach owners make any more claims pro rata that those with Oceans. Also how many Ocean owners only use their vans for camping? It also stands to reason that those claims that are made will cost less to fix on a less complicated vehicle. That should be reflected in the calculations. In Comfort's case and possibly all other insurers, I wonder if the data from all MPVs is being used to partly assess the cost of premiums. I also know that they aren't keen on insuring Beaches. Being on my second seven seat T6 Beach, the first being classed as a Motor Caravan and current one being an MPV, the response when trying to insure what is essentially the same vehicle has changed.

I certainly don't see how not having a built in cooker represents a higher risk. That makes no sense at all. No, I think @BikerGran may have hit the nail on the head. "Comfort are motor caravan/motorhome specialist insurers", and whilst they will insure the Beach they'd rather not.

So the real culprit is the Government's recent DVLA vehicle tax grab. Due to this redesignation a Beach now costs much more than an Ocean or Coast to Tax each year and the insurance companies have merely acted accordingly by pulling out their pistols to demand we Beach owners hand over even more cash.

The above mentioned comment refers to the very last T6 Beaches and revised T6-1 Beach "Tour" models. I believe the T6-1 Beach "Camper" is still classed as a Motor Caravan.

 

[Joker 1299]

Another factor will be that a 7 seater Beach has twice the passenger carrying capacity of an Ocean and therefore the potential for twice the number of third party injury claims

 

[Borris]

Another factor will be that a 7 seater Beach has twice the passenger carrying capacity of an Ocean and therefore the potential for twice the number of third party injury claims

That's a good point although an Ocean can carry up to five persons and the highest number of seats you can have in a new UK spec mpv classed Beach Tour is now six not seven as in the T6 variant. Also I suspect most Beach Tours are ordered as five seaters.

 

[Karlos]

Probably concerned about all those camping gaz stoves balanced on wobbly home made tables.

Whilst being used to ferry live poultry around the country.

 

[golfie]

I sold my SE180 in March, suspended my Comfort insurance and ordered a new Beach 150. I contacted Comfort today for a quotation for the new vehicle. I was very surprised when I was told that because this was a Beach I could only be covered in the EU for a maximum of 90 days in the 12 months and my annual total mileage was limited to10000 miles and the premium was over £500. Apparently if I had purchased a "fully equipped" vehicle like an Ocean, Coast or Grand I would not be subjected to these conditions and the premium would have cheaper. Fortunately there are other companies out there that will cover me for longer in the EU and for a smaller premium. It is a shame as I had been with them for many years and provided insurance at a competitive rate.

Hi All
My apologies for the delay in sending a follow up. Comfort are the agents for Aviva. It was Aviva who decided that due to the limited facilities available on the Beach only a restricted Twilight policy was available with the limits previously outlined. I contacted a broker who offered a comprehensive Aviva policy which was exactly the same as the (Horizon) policy sold by Comfort for the Ocean and Coast. I accepted and paid the premium.
I then called Comfort Insurance for clarification and it was confirmed this policy should not have been sold to me by the broker and if I made a claim on the policy it could be void. I was asked to check again with the broker.
I contacted the broker and after seeking advice from the Aviva Underwriters he offered me a policy with a different insurance company.
Needless to say, I requested my premium to be returned and went elsewhere.

I suggest that if you own a Beach and you have an Aviva comprehensive Horizon policy issued by a broker, you should check with the Aviva underwriters or Comfort Insurance as to its validity.

 

[BeagleMum]

A Beach isn't a motor caravan (camper) according to the DVLA requirements, it should be registered as a 'van with windows'. They don't meet the criteria see https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...van/converting-a-vehicle-into-a-motor-caravan

My V5 states ‘California Beach’ motor caravan

 

[Arees1969]

By all means...

According to the DVLA a Motor Caravan' MUST have cooking facilities built in otherwise they will only register it as a 'Van with Windows'. Ask all of the converters here in the UK, they have all had to toe the line even down to the graphics etc. and pop-tops don't comply!
Yes I know that VW have managed to wriggle their way around it some how but it does make a mockery of the rules.
The big test would be if someone converted a genuine VW Window Van with right sliding door into a camper using all California fittings. I wonder how the DVLA would register that?

It does have cooking facilities it has a pull out hob