Dedicated Winter Tyres [Good for Mud & Wet Grass too]

[DrJuanKerr]

I'm fortunate enough to be able to store a full set of wheels and tyres so am looking to purchase a set of dedicated winter tyres that will perform well on mud as well as snow.

My primary reason for these is to gain traction over mud and wet grass as well as wet roads and the occasional flurry of snow.

My B Pillar suggests the following Tyre sizes are "Allowed"

1. 215/60/17 104/102T M&S
2. 235/55/17 103H
3. 255/45/18 103W

Initial thoughts were BF Goodrich AT K02: 225 /65 R17. Not being a recommended size doesn't cause me too much concern. I'm currently running 245/40/20 Fr and 275/35/20 R anyway!

Having read countless threads however I understand M+S tyres are not necessarily the "best" option for "cold" weather [<7deg C] unless supported by the three peaks and snow flake [3PSFM] markings too.

Most advertising "bumph" and reviews show traction over snow and slush and are carried out in extremely cold climates.; typically Finland or Norway.

I've read many threads that favour these winter tyres;

1. Michelin crossclimate+ SUV 235/55/17
2. GoodYear Cargo Vector 2 tyres
3. Dunlop Winter Sport 5
4. Michellin Pilot Alpin PA4 235/55 R17

Additionally the AutoExpress Tyre outright winner for 2019 is the Goodyear UltraGrip Performance+. None of which however appear to have a sufficiently "aggressive" tread pattern for mud.

Which brings me to my dilemma: Which winter tyre is best suited to mud and wet grass?

EDIT [24/11/19]
Since carrying out research I've discovered the BF Goodrich KO2 display the "snowflake & 3 peak" markings.

 

[sapto]

As far as I understand amd read about it it is hard to find a tyre which is great on grass and mud AND cold weather (correct me please).
Down here we use normal winter tyres and during winter grass is covered with snow. And we‘ve been told that in winter you run narrow(er) sizes to optimize driving in snow.

However maybe it‘s all upside down at your place.

PS I went for the Conti WinterContact.
Friend of mines running these (also Conti)

 

[westfalia]

Which winter tyre is best suited to mud and wet grass?

I would go for the Goodrich for that terrain.

 

[Beeechke1]

When I bought my van second hand it was fitted with cargo vector 2's and I have run these for two years. Goodyear position them as 4 seasons tyres so run them all year, they do have M&S rating as well as the 3PMSF. They do seem to have worn very evenly, cant say I have really tested them in snow yet but no problem with wet soft ground so far.

 

[Trebor]

I'm fortunate enough to be able to store a full set of wheels and tyres so am looking to purchase a set of dedicated winter tyres.

My primary reason for these is to gain traction over mud and wet grass as well as wet roads.

My B Pillar suggests the following Tyre sizes are "Allowed"
215/60/17 104/102T M&S
235/55/17 103H
255/45/18 103W

Initial thoughts were BF Goodrich AT K02: 225 /65 R17. Not being a recommended size doesn't cause me too much concern. I'm currently running 245/40/20 Fr and 275/35/20 R anyway!

Having read countless threads however I understand M+S tyres are not necessarily the "best" option for "cold" weather [<7deg C] unless supported by the 3PSMF markings too.

Most advertising "bumph" indicates traction over snow and slush, which although likely, is far from definite.

I've read many threads that favour these;

1. Michelin crossclimate+ SUV 235/55/17
2. GoodYear Cargo Vector 2 tyres
3. Dunlop Winter Sport 5
4. Michellin Pilot Alpin PA4 235/55 R17

Additionally the AutoExpress Tyre outright winner for 2019 is the Goodyear UltraGrip Performance+

Which brings me to my dilemma: Which winter tyre is best suited to mud and wet grass?

Hello Dr Juan
I used to run Goodyear Vector 4 seasons most of the time and had steels with Dunlop winter Sport for sub 7 deg C . This was ok but I nearly got stuck with 4 motion at a point to point in summer ! It was wet grass with clay just under the surface . It was chaos . Even the Landrovers and Landcruisers were struggling with off-road tyres . The Vectors had about an inch of clay stuck to them . The traction control and diff lock went crazy and tyre pressure sensor didn’t like it . It was so bad we were sliding sideways in the car parking area !

So I got fed up with changing tyres/ wheels in winter and changed to BfGoodrich Ko2 At . They are Mand S and have Snowflake symbol . I’ve used Bf Goodrich for many years ( although I think the KO2 is a different compound ) on 110 landrovers Range Rover Classic and Landcruiser Amazon and think they are unbeatable ( other than studs ) on and off road mud , snow and ice . I probably will renew them when they are half worn ( 5 mm) as I like to have new tyres . Slightly noisier on road but a much softer ride and great for speed humps !

 

[jamessclarke]

Do they increase fuel consumption?

 

[DrJuanKerr]

@sapto the BF Goodrich are 225 whilst the narrowest "recommended" are 215/60/17 104/102T M&S.Our winters are typically wetter than the rest of the year. Standing water is the main obstacle. Likewise fields and campsites regularly get water logged. The temperatures drop to below 7degs regularly but the dampness and standing water often prevents snow from sticking

@Trebor I assume therefore, your run the BF Goodrich all year? If that is the case, how do they fair in the cold and wet winters as they do not display the 3PSMF markings?

I must confess to preferring a different size to that which BF Goodrich provide for my 17" "Spare" wheels

Using https://tiresize.com/comparison/ as a reference guide, I can see the 215/60/17 provided by BF Goodrich increase the overall height of my current 245/40/20 wheel from 27.7" to 28.5". Having paid £400 for a set of 30mm drop springs it would therefore seem counter intuitive for me to increase it again by 25.4mm!.

** Thinks to self ** I wonder whether if I bought a cheap set of 16" steel rims from ebay or similar the variety of tyre sizes would increase and potentially be cheaper per tyre too?

EDIT:
Using tiresize.com I note 215/65/16 have a diameter of 27" as opposed to my current 27.7". Clearly my speedo will be out and no doubt an adverse affect on mph but I can live with both.

......... just need to find suitable tyres now so I'm still at square one!

 

[Trebor]

Yes have bfg on all this year . If you’ve lowered your van probably won’t work . I wanted as much ground clearance s possible . Haven’t used them on Vw in snow yet as only fitted in the spring but used them in snow and thick ice on my Amazon and were unstoppable . The bfg Ko2 has mountain and snowflake symbol . This is relatively new . If you have larger brakes you would need 17 in steels . I just figured that mud was likely to be as big a problem as snow .

 

[Ting Tong]

16” don’t fit because of the T30 callipers. Any of these sizes are the correct diameter and will fit but narrower tyres have better traction in slippery conditions
215/60r17
235/55 r17
235/50 r18
255/45 r18


I run a set of Michelin cross climate 235/50 r18s on some cheap alloys. They’re excellent but I don’t want to run them all year.

 

[Elmo3]

If you’ve got a T6 Ocean, 16 inch wheels won‘t fit over the brakes, you need 17’s. I’ve just fitted Cooper Discoverer All Seasons (M&S and 3 peak symbol). 225/65/17. They fit no problem and speedo is now spot on. Very deep and pretty aggressive treads but very quiet on the road. Absolutely delighted with them.

 

[Trebor]

Do they increase fuel consumption?

Yes probably but only about 2 mpg Irun at 45psi all round .

 

[Blubus]

Just had Nokian WRC 3 fitted 215/60/17 109/107T these replace 4 x Continental Van contact 200 which had done 22300 miles since new.

 

[B J G]

If you go for an All Season tyre use the SUV version as they have tread designed to clear mud and stone out of the tread grooves better than the 'passenger car' version, also have stiffer sidewalls for rough terrain.

 

[DrJuanKerr]

I’ve just fitted Cooper Discoverer All Seasons (M&S and 3 peak symbol). 225/65/17. .

@Wiggly Woo The Cross Climates don't seem to have a particularly aggressive tread pattern. I wonder how they'd fare in mud or damn grass?

@Elmo, which ones? Either of these?
https://www.mytyres.co.uk/rshop/Tyres/Cooper/Discoverer-ATT/225-60-R17-103H-XL/R-395093
https://www.mytyres.co.uk/rshop/Tyr...0-R17-103H-XL---mit-Felgenhornschutz/R-350297

@BJG good thinking

 

[clarinetbcn]

@Wiggly Woo The Cross Climates don't seem to have a particularly aggressive tread pattern. I wonder how they'd fare in mud or damn grass?

Judging from the Michelin website, the tread pattern on the Crossclimate Agilis (designed for light vans) seems more aggressive than the Crossclimate SUV. I've heard lots of positive feedback for the SUV on my thread looking to compare the two, but so far no feedback on the Agilis, maybe because they're fairly new. There is lots of discussion of the Agilis on the T6 forum, very positive.

 

[DrJuanKerr]

@clarinetbcn I agree. The Crossclimate Agilis certainly is more aggressive. I note they are also available in 215/60/17 109/107T

The EU tyre label is impressive too! They have B for Fuel and A for traction in the wet. Not cheap though circa £150 + VAT each corner

The aggressive profile however certainly fits my criteria as do the Cooper discoverer mentioned by @Elmo assuming he's referring to these https://www.camskill.co.uk/m56b0s3204p165036/Cooper_Tyres_SUV_4x4_Cooper_Discoverer_AT_-_225_60_R17_103H_XL_TL_Fuel_Eff_:_C_Wet_Grip:_C_NoiseClass:_2_Noise:_72dB
The EU tyre label is not quite as impressive however showing C for both categories but are ~£90 each corner but no 3PSMF as far as I can tell?

 

[Elmo3]

@Wiggly Woo The Cross Climates don't seem to have a particularly aggressive tread pattern. I wonder how they'd fare in mud or damn grass?

@Elmo, which ones? Either of these?
https://www.mytyres.co.uk/rshop/Tyres/Cooper/Discoverer-ATT/225-60-R17-103H-XL/R-395093
https://www.mytyres.co.uk/rshop/Tyr...0-R17-103H-XL---mit-Felgenhornschutz/R-350297

@BJG good thinking

I like the ATT’s but they are not 3 peak rated, which I wanted for flexibility in Europe etc. These are mine. M+S, 3 peaks, 106 load rating.

Cooper Discoverer All Season. Only £ 137.70

All-season tyres Cooper Discoverer All Season, 225/65 R17 106V XL, Load rating: 106, Speed index: V: up to 149 mph.

www.mytyres.co.uk

 

[Legin]

Just for info I ran two sets of these on my landcruiser and they were excellent grip, quiet and comfortable. The only blemish was both sets cracked all the way round adjacent to the rim edge, this appeared when the temperature went down to about -10c. In reality I dont think it was a safety issue but a bit disconcerting nonetheless.
https://www.camskill.co.uk/m56b0s3204p165036/Cooper_Tyres_SUV_4x4_Cooper_Discoverer_AT_-_225_60_R17_103H_XL_TL_Fuel_Eff_:_C_Wet_Grip:_C_NoiseClass:_2_Noise:_72dB

 

[Craig Morrison]

Iv just fitted a set of the Michelin Climate + on my T6 Cali on the standard wheels just for the reason of not having a second set of wheels at the moment and got good reviews for all year round. Have used the Dunlop Winter Sport on previous vehicles where Iv had winter wheels and summer wheels and thought they were a fantastic winter tyre

 

[bbqforce10]

I ran BF Goodrich AT KO2s (on 16 inch steels) and whilst I loved the look of them I've recently changed back to conventional road tyres as I ended up finding they had a few downsides:
Mpg took a hit of around 10%.
They had a significant impact on general acceleration and the dsg gearbox was often changing changing up then changing down again shortly afterwards.
The large sidewalls made the van feel quite floaty through the corners
Road noise was quite noticeable at times.
I'm now back to 17 inch wheels with continental contivancontact 200 tyres and find it much nicer to drive.

 

[Aubisque]

I had Cross Climates on a Yeti 4x4 - really good in snow, no chains needed.
I have Vector 4 Seasons SUV on the Ocean 2WD, specced from new, really good on snow and cold temps and so far on muddy grass. I have carry chains if conditions get really bad.
The benefit of both is you can leave them on all rear round, sound quiet on the road, have good MPG and gendarmes will let you past 'chaines obligatoires' alpine roadblocks as they are 3PMSF winter rated.

 

[DrJuanKerr]

Just had Nokian WRC 3 fitted 215/60/17 109/107T w.

@Blubus, I'm looking for something more aggressive than the Nokian WRC 3, although they do have the snowflake and 3 peaks symbols

I like the ATT’s but they are not 3 peak rated, which I wanted for flexibility in Europe etc.

@Elmo the Ocean I have to say I prefer the aggressive pattern of the AT but, as you say, no snowflake or 3 peaks symbols yet with a slighgtly more favourable EU label [C for fuel and B for stopping in the wet]

The only blemish was both sets cracked all the way round adjacent to the rim edge, this appeared when the temperature went down to about -10c.

@Legin, that causes me concern to be honest too to be honest!

They had a significant impact on general acceleration and the dsg gearbox was often changing changing up then changing down again shortly afterwards.
The large sidewalls made the van feel quite floaty through the corners
Road noise was quite noticeable at times.
I'm now back to 17 inch wheels with continental contivancontact 200 tyres and find it much nicer to drive.

@bbqforce10: interesting point about the gearbox. I've not read anybody else having similar issues. The EU tyre label for the BFG KO2 indicates an "F" for fuel efficiency! Considering G is the worst I'm not surprised you took a hit ;p

I had Cross Climates on a Yeti 4x4 - really good in snow, no chains needed.
I have Vector 4 Seasons SUV on the Ocean 2WD, specced from new, really good on snow and cold temps and so far on muddy grass. I have carry chains if conditions get really bad.
The benefit of both is you can leave them on all rear round, sound quiet on the road, have good MPG and gendarmes will let you past 'chaines obligatoires' alpine roadblocks as they are 3PMSF winter rated.

@Aubisque

I didn't think it would be this difficult to find a dedicated set of winter tyres that have a relatively aggressive tread pattern that carries the snowflake and peaks symbol in a recommended size!

 

[Cwcltd]

Just put four of these on - Dunlop Winter Sport 5. Used them before on my previous cars. Excellent winter tyres, not noticeably noisier than the summer ones, and no increase in mpg.

 

[christo_wilson]

Continental WinterContact TS 870 review | Auto Express

A strong all-round showing put the Continental into a lead over arch rival Bridgestone that it never lost

www.autoexpress.co.uk

I bought these for my t6 just before the season and drove through that terrential week of rain along the southcoast and did not aqua-plane once!!!

I have driven through loads of mud and still no problems. The lack of road noise is incredible!

They are expensive so that would be their only downside

 

[California4x4]

I had Cross Climates on a Yeti 4x4 - really good in snow, no chains needed.
I have Vector 4 Seasons SUV on the Ocean 2WD, specced from new, really good on snow and cold temps and so far on muddy grass. I have carry chains if conditions get really bad.
The benefit of both is you can leave them on all rear round, sound quiet on the road, have good MPG and gendarmes will let you past 'chaines obligatoires' alpine roadblocks as they are 3PMSF winter rated.
View attachment 52723

Nice van! Nice board! It looks like we have similar taste!