Discussion regarding T6 ONLY roof corrosion

[kaf2546]

About Carbon fibre or similar, I was in contact with Malcolm on this forum and he was looking to do feasibility on such a solution to the roof on T5 s at that time. Sadly he passed away and never put the plan in motion. I have no technical knowledge of the process, but he seemed sure there was a business opportunity there for someone with the right skill set. Does anyone else on here have those skills, or even for Kev etc to sound out production via the Cali shop... might be a huge opportunity..... the complexity as I recalll was setting in the roof rails as they make the moulding more difficult but also impart some of the anti torsional strength.

Any other thoughts on this as the problem is surely not going away.... we all want to keep our vans, and it might even be possible to get a contract with VW to fix the lot!

agreed, this is an opportunity for someone, a big 3D printer could probably mock one up in a few days

 

[kaf2546]

If you haven't removed the seal how do you know you haven't got corrosion?
You won't find out until you pull a section off!!!

you can't make me

 

[snowy55]

you can't make me

La la la la la

 

[thehorse]

Does anyone have an idea of the actual incidence of roof corrosion after say 5 years? Is it 5% or 95% etc.

I can see there is 375 on the poll saying they have it which is 375 too many, but curious how many Calis don't have the issue.

 

[sbmcd]

This may have been answered in the other bigger thread, but.....

If the roof is aluminium then the corrosion would just be on the surface, with the aluminium oxidising to aluminium oxide which would protect the aluminium from further corrosion. I.e it should never become a structural issue and if it only happened under the rubber seal, would it be an issue?

I wonder if it would be better if vw wrapped the ali roof instead of painting it.

I see your point, is the issue really just blistering paint under the seal? Or is there actual corrosion of the aluminium as well?

 

[snowy55]

Does anyone have an idea of the actual incidence of roof corrosion after say 5 years? Is it 5% or 95% etc.

I can see there is 375 on the poll saying they have it which is 375 too many, but curious how many Calis don't have the issue.

I have owned and been loaned 3 Californias in the last 2 1/2 years - a 2014 T5 SE, 2015 T5 SE and a 2016 T6 Beach and they all had corrosion under the seal on the raising section of the roof.

The 2014 T5 SE was repaired twice and it needed repairing again, so in my experience 100% of Californias have roof corrosion.

I've never pulled a seal off and not found corrosion!

 

[snowy55]

I see your point, is the issue really just blistering paint under the seal? Or is there actual corrosion of the aluminium as well?

If you peel the blisters off the aluminium is pitted, the longer you leave it the deeper the pitting. Once the corrosion is established it will get into the grain structure of the aluminium and you won't be able to grind it out without making the panel very thin. So the La la la la approach isn't really doing anyone any favours.

 

[sbmcd]

Does anyone have an idea of the actual incidence of roof corrosion after say 5 years? Is it 5% or 95% etc.

I can see there is 375 on

If you peel the blisters off the aluminium is pitted, the longer you leave it the deeper the pitting. Once the corrosion is established it will get into the grain structure of the aluminium and you won't be able to grind it out without making the panel very thin. So the La la la la approach isn't really doing anyone any favours.

Thanks for that, not good at all, time to get my rubber seal off I think.

 

[TomC]

I intend to check also as soon as time permits but to be clear is it the very rear/back of van section that is most likely to show corrosion or the sides towards the rear?


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[Jabberwocky]

There is a class action being undertaken by a firm of solicitors in England against VW for the emissions scandal. Might be worth considering that they be contacted to take on board a similar action re the roof issue?

These are the lawyers who are taking the Class Action against VW on a no win no fee basis. http://www.slatergordon.co.uk/?infi...itPcRy3XyR5KAq0AHkzBsa70ZZ8dosJx2AaAoFD8P8HAQ

 

[Grey one]

Indeed.

Calling all T6 California Owners.

We have had reports that the T6 possibly has the same corrosion problem as the T5 version on the main elevating roof.

If you have a VW California T6 Ocean or Beach you need to check to see if you are affected, the corrosion starts under the rubber seal on the elevating roof and slowly works it way upwards .

How to Check:

1. Raise the roof around 30cm to expose the rubber seal that goes around the bottom of the roof.

2. Peel back the seal ( this may be quite tight but it is designed to be removed and will easily go back in to place afterwards)

3. Once the seal is removed away from the roof you need to look for any small bubbles or blisters, these could be anything from 1mm upwards in size.

4. Please report back to the forum with what you find and if possible some pictures.


Please Report Back to us HERE

*Please only use the link above - do not reply to this email

Regards,

VW California Club Team
e: admin@vwcaliforniaclub.com
w: www.vwcaliforniaclub.com

Admin, I have e-mailed but can you confirm if the content of the previous mail indicates you are willing to collect data? There are lots of people concerned and many offering views but surely the first thing to do is establish facts in a similar fashion over a given period of time. Whilst some will be happy to leave the issue unresolved I sense many T6 owners will take early action (by inspecting thoroughly). I collect a new vehicle next week and am liaising with the dealership re their view on how an inspection by removing the seal may effect future watertightness and warranty. I will let others know. Can you confirm if you are able to collect data? I clicked the link in the e mail but it did not reveal any place to submit detail.

 

[Trebor]

Hi , I have a May 2015 with 9 k miles which I was planning to keep long term . It has been kept in a dehumidified garage much of the time . Just looked under the seal today and have tiny blisters ( needed reading glasses ) on the edge of the roof. I can see the rubber seal keeps the edge of the roof in moisture even when van is dry . There was also dirt in the seal and on the edge of the roof .Definitely a design fault .

1 Has anyone tried taking the seal off the roof and then lowering roof fully and putting in garage with dehumidifier for a few days for paint to dry before refitting cleaned seal with a waterproof sealant ? Just a thought . Looks like they've all got corrosion some very quickly . Guess California not designed to park near the sea !?!?! Garage is about 2.3 m high .

2 Is it true that if the roof is raised slightly in the garage it will try to raise fully after a while to correct itself with catastrophic results ? Is there any way to stop this to allow roof to be left slightly ajar in the garage ?

3 What kind of primer / paint is used on a 2015 Cali .

4 Does the seal actually contain metal ? Mine doesn't seem to ? Has anyone drilled holes in the roof seal to allow it to drain ?

Sorry for all the questions . Thanks for your help everyone .

 

[thehorse]

I intend to check also as soon as time permits but to be clear is it the very rear/back of van section that is most likely to show corrosion or the sides towards the rear?


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From my understanding it is the front section of the roof, but can be anywhere around the seal I guess.

 

[Hotel California]

@Trebor
1 : you can not do this every time your Cali got wet...

2: don't know sure but guess not as there are sensors to detect fully up and fully closed ....not inbetween. If not raised fully it think will not correct itself .
Try it , outside , and keep us posted.

3 : sorry no clue

4: don't know sure but guess so , but as long there's no "rust" visilbe the metal is not coming thru the rubber body.

 

[thehorse]

My best guess as to the cause is the rubber seal is applied too early before the paint has fully hardened and dried out, I believe it takes several weeks before paintwork is fully hardened.

The combined effect of the soft paint being damaged by the seal and also the moisture in the paint not able to evaporate under the seal causes the corrosion.

If you look in snowys pics you'll see faint parallel lines where the paint has been marked and slightly damaged by the seal being applied too early. If you look at where the bubbles are they are neatly between these lines. i.e. there aren't any bubbles that aren't touching these lines of paint damage.

....well that's my theory anyway

 

[snowy55]

I intend to check also as soon as time permits but to be clear is it the very rear/back of van section that is most likely to show corrosion or the sides towards the rear?


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It can be on anywhere that is covered by the seal.

Raise the roof up about a foot, go up your step ladders and grab the the seal, wiggle and pull down it may be a bit tight and a section about foot long will pull away.
Wipe away the dirt and have good look, the pictures at the beginning of this thread show what you are looking for. You don't have to take miles of seal off just do a section in front of the awning, a section in the centre at rear and a section on the passenger side just wiggle the seal back on when you're finished.

Hope this helps

 

[snowy55]

If you look at where the bubbles are they are neatly between these lines.

They do eventually cross the seal lines and burst out above the seal.

 

[Hotel California]

@thehorse , don't know if you are totaly wrong but i don't think thats the cause.
The Cali roofs are made and sprayed in a diffrent place before they arrive at the Cali assembling factory .
This would also means every fresh-sprayed bodywork needs to be put away a few weeks before assemblage....? Witch is not .....been to the factory some time ago.

 

[thehorse]

They do eventually cross the seal lines and burst out above the seal.

Sure, but what I am suggesting is the corrosion starts on the lines. If you look at the really small dots in your pic they are all starting on the lines.

It would of course spread to the rest of the panel once the paint is compromised and the corrosion has started.

 

[snowy55]

Hi , I have a May 2015 with 9 k miles which I was planning to keep long term . It has been kept in a dehumidified garage much of the time . Just looked under the seal today and have tiny blisters ( needed reading glasses ) on the edge of the roof. I can see the rubber seal keeps the edge of the roof in moisture even when van is dry . There was also dirt in the seal and on the edge of the roof .Definitely a design fault .

1 Has anyone tried taking the seal off the roof and then lowering roof fully and putting in garage with dehumidifier for a few days for paint to dry before refitting cleaned seal with a waterproof sealant ? Just a thought . Looks like they've all got corrosion some very quickly . Guess California not deigned to park near the sea !?!?! Garage is about 2.3 m high .

2 Is it true that if the roof is raised slightly in the garage it will try to raise fully after a while to correct itself with catastrophic results ? Is there any way to stop this to allow roof to be left slightly ajar in the garage ?

3 What kind of primer / paint is used on a 2015 Cali .

4 Does the seal actually contain metal ? Mine doesn't seem to ? Has anyone drilled holes in the roof seal to allow it to drain ?

Sorry for all the questions . Thanks for your help everyone .

double post

 

[snowy55]

Hi , I have a May 2015 with 9 k miles which I was planning to keep long term . It has been kept in a dehumidified garage much of the time . Just looked under the seal today and have tiny blisters ( needed reading glasses ) on the edge of the roof. I can see the rubber seal keeps the edge of the roof in moisture even when van is dry . There was also dirt in the seal and on the edge of the roof .Definitely a design fault .

1 Has anyone tried taking the seal off the roof and then lowering roof fully and putting in garage with dehumidifier for a few days for paint to dry before refitting cleaned seal with a waterproof sealant ? Just a thought . Looks like they've all got corrosion some very quickly . Guess California not deigned to park near the sea !?!?! Garage is about 2.3 m high .

2 Is it true that if the roof is raised slightly in the garage it will try to raise fully after a while to correct itself with catastrophic results ? Is there any way to stop this to allow roof to be left slightly ajar in the garage ?

3 What kind of primer / paint is used on a 2015 Cali .

4 Does the seal actually contain metal ? Mine doesn't seem to ? Has anyone drilled holes in the roof seal to allow it to drain ?

Sorry for all the questions . Thanks for your help everyone .

Keeping yours in a dehumidified garage could well have slowed the process but it has started!

1 Meddling with anything in the seal area would probably----no definatley invalidate any future warranty claims

2 It may well reset itself overnight. You could take out the fuse once it is up where you want it. Don't ask me which fuse!

3 I don't know.

4 Try the seal with a magnet all the seals I've had experience with were magnetic. Let us know if yours is please.

 

[snowy55]

A huge 'thank you' from Mrs Snowy for all the kind words whilst we have endured the past few days. We are both gutted, Snowy especially, I would say he is devastated (and very angry)!

The last three years in our Cali have been amazing and the vehicle itself outstanding, it would have been very easy to have taken delivery of our brand new ordered Cali and hope that it would not have corrosion, but we made the extremely difficult decision to vote with our feet and have walked away (sadly) because we believe VW should not continually produce defective vehicles, sell them to hard-working people for large sums of money and then treat them with contempt. Within the next few weeks some poor unsuspecting person will walk into the dealership and buy these two vans which are known to have corrosion and happily take good money for them, to me that says it all!

Thank you once again for your much appreciated support for Snowy xxxx

 

[Hotel California]

Here's how my 2012 SE looked like a few months ago , have not checked again










My 2012 SE has approx. 40.000km is always inside a dry garage when not in use , and only comes out for trips , not as daily driver.
My dealer pointed out how to check and we did it together , he told me he put me on the list to get the "job" done.
I trust him and did not let a minute sleep since .
It's very unplesant and should not happen but you can perfect use the verhicle to witch it was made for without it beeing repaired .
That is as long it does not go all over the roof...and start eating the roof away

There are probally hundreds or more Cali owners having +10y old Cali's with corrosion , unaware of it as it is mostly unvisible .
On here , sure everyone knows ....if you come accros a fellow Cali owner on a campsite or parked up at Tesco's , ask him....he probally don't have clue.
Thats why VW don't bother....imo.

Had a LR Defender for 10years and alu corrosion showed afther a few years , LR did nothing to repair it or prevent it on later models , the same as on our Cali's ....why should they bother ?
They sell as hot cakes....NOT saying it is ok at all , only pointing out the reality.

 

[thehorse]

@thehorse , don't know if you are totaly wrong but i don't think thats the cause.
The Cali roofs are made and sprayed in a diffrent place before they arrive at the Cali assembling factory .
This would also means every fresh-sprayed bodywork needs to be put away a few weeks before assemblage....? Witch is not .....been to the factory some time ago.

I believe it takes 4-6 weeks for paint to reach full hardness and all the water evaporate

 

[Hotel California]

I believe it takes 4-6 weeks for paint to reach full hardness and all the water evaporate

Non Cali (or any T6 ) i'v seen build was put away that long afther spraying before further assembling .
If i recall , it is a mather of hours before they are back on track in the factory-assembling line