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Drink and sleeping in a California?

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finnegan

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Hi all,

Just a quick question!

If one has a few drinks and is over the limit whilst parked up and obviously are going to be sleeping the night in the Cali, how does it stand in the eyes of the law?

I know for sure if someone is found in possession of their car keys whilst sleeping in it they're in trouble and could be charged with "drunk in charge of a vehicle"!

Consequently, if I was away with my wife and we had parked up for the night and either had a bottle of wine in the local pub or in situ and we sleeping in the van that evening and we were tapped up for the above how would we stand? Anyone know or could help, it's bound to have happened to lots of you but I wondered if anyone has had trouble with the law...
 
If you are on private land like a campsite or pub yard then you are not on the public highway therefore ok to have a drink. Parked on a grass verge or in a layby you are on the public highway therefore liable to prosecution.
 
I took advice on this some time ago from Geoffrey Miller, one of the leading motoring lawyers in the country.

I had no reason other than reassurance as I do wild camp a lot and use a lot of Britstops. I have had one experience of a police car parked over the road to the pub that I was having dinner at and knowing that I would clearly be seen as walking out of a pub, keys in hand, and getting into a motor vehicle.

The law of "being in charge" is there for a reason. It is to stop a loophole in the drink-driving laws of someone pulling over and using the excuse of "no intent to drive".

It is a statutory offence, i.e. if you are over the limit and in possession of the keys then you are guilty as charged. It is then for you to prove that you really did not have "intent to drive".

A defence would centre on evidence of lack of intent. Was the engine still warm? Were the keys in the ignition? Was the drivers seat still facing forward or turned around? Was the bed made up? Is there evidence of "prior arrangement", e.g., at a Britstop and confirmation beforehand with the landlord that it was your intention to stop overnight?

All those factors would determine judgement towards acquittal, if indeed a prosecution was brought, as any police force, and certainly the CPS, would take into account the spirit and purpose of the law.

From a practical point of view the advice given was that with the seat turned around, the keys away from the ignition, the bed made up and evidence of prior arrangement would all make conviction highly unlikely.

However, a few personal views of my own. How much alcohol was there in the blood stream? If there was evidence that there was sufficient alcohol consumed to make it likely that one will still be over the limit at a "reasonable time" for departure the next day then it would not only be prejudicial but plain daft.

Equally if I am parked somewhere where there is the possibility that I may need to move on, either asked to or needing to because of other circumstances, then don't drink.

There are precedents for people getting nicked. However the individual circumstances would have a huge bearing, some old dear sat in a corner drinking a couple of glasses of wine with her dinner before going out and talking nicely to her camper is not the same as someone pulling up, getting totally plastered, falling into the camper with keys still in hand.

At the end of the day it is common sense. Parked on a public highway, even in a lay-by in say a forestry commission estate, best to err on the side of caution.

Parked up in a pub car park having made prior arrangements with the landlord to stop overnight, a typical Britstop arrangement, then I am fairly relaxed providing that I can still stand at the end of the evening.

On a campsite no qualms at all,
 
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A good comprehensive answer above. Our take is fairly similar.
Campsite or pub carpark where we know we don't need to move on we will have a drink.
Wild camping in a coastal carpark where we know we are being cheeky and could get moved on, no drink so we are able to move the van.
 
Don't risk it 'Plod' will have you.... 'Soft Target' !!!!! No licence No Cali Vanning......
Disagree GJ summed it up. You cannot ever say that there isn't one "Plod" daft enough or that anything is impossible. However the likelyhood of one "Plod" and a daft enough CPS is!
Enjoy your drink Finnegan:)
 
Taking suitable precautions and applying common sense is the key, however the 99% unlikely rule always leaves the 1% possible prosecution.
Sadly, I have little faith in the law, drawn from personal experience of requiring support from the law and experiences from friends etc..
They will always go for the low hanging fruit as this is easier...
Sorry just my experience...
Just don't drink at all and you'll be safe for sure..
 
Granny Jen, sounds like your "Very useful 421 wine chiller" will not be that useful in the future! .Guess it's Brit Stops for you in the future. You'll certainly be sitting on different table to calicasas at the West Sussex Cali Christmas Party.

Cheers to a drier future, bottom's up,
A. Harveys-Pint
 
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Word of warning - you can be drunk in charge on a road or public place. Any place can be public if, at the time, the public have access, whether on payment or otherwise.
A pub car park has been held to be a public place, at least whilst the pub is open, but could also remain so if there is regular use at other times.
If you are clearly parked up to sleep, then there shouldn't be a problem - GrannyJen's advice is sound.

The issue with drinking, wherever you do it, is the morning after the night before - have a skinful and you could be over the limit the next morning when you drive off. This is where a defence of "no likelihood of driving whilst over the prescribed limit" would crumble, whatever the circumstances.

Given that England and Wales have 19,000 less cops than 6-years ago, most of them will not go seeking peaceful campers parked up in sensible places

Don't forget that, in Scotland, that limit is lower and the morning after is where many folk get caught out.
 
What does " In procession of the keys actually mean? "

Could you lock the keys in the safe ( if you have one ) and be in procession of the Safe Key?

You can easily remove the " Key Blade " from a remote and just use the Remote with the blade elsewhere.
 
Certainly in the UK the issue and dangers are setting off in the morning after a heavy night. The whole drunk in charge thing in practice is for the sensible enforcement when people are say walking out to their car keys in hand and about to get into their car. No sensible policeman would be looking to catch you if you were kipping in your Cali having had one too many. If the policeman fails the sensible test you would have some discomfort but then several others would have to also fail it including the CPS. You would then have the jury. In my view you would then be acquitted. More chance of being hit by lightning. IMHO

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About the only circumstances I wouldn't have a drop would be if I was kipping in a lay-bye or similar overnight.


Mike
 
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I spend last night in the Cali on the parkinglot at my VW dealer having a oil change this morning.
Now at a friends birthdayparty , again Cali parked on the drive ....spending the night here having a few drinks....
 
What does " In procession of the keys actually mean? "

Could you lock the keys in the safe ( if you have one ) and be in procession of the Safe Key?

You can easily remove the " Key Blade " from a remote and just use the Remote with the blade elsewhere.

You cannot deny being in possession of the keys if you are the legal owner and they are accessible.

You can have the defence of "no intent".
 
You cannot deny being in possession of the keys if you are the legal owner and they are accessible.

You can have the defence of "no intent".
So if you left the "key blade" with the Inn Keeper, as you could not start the vehicle you would be in the clear.
 
So if you left the "key blade" with the Inn Keeper, as you could not start the vehicle you would be in the clear.

As you have no means of driving away I'm sure that you will be but to be honest that is a question that for all practical reasons I have not got round to asking.

For me the whole point of a britstop is to pull over, get something to eat and drink and get on my way next morning. On that basis I will want my keys with me, most pub landlords will not want the hassle anyway and half the time they may not even live on the premises and may not be open until hours after I want to be on my way.

Common sense with spirit and intent of the law. No intent to drive officer, I can't anyway, my drivers seat is the wrong way round, besides my bed is made up, my roof is raised, I have prior agreement with the landlord to me stopping the night and I'm not so legless that I will still be over the limit when I set off in the morning.
 
the trouble is when away in the cali I get drunk of fresh air
 
My primary concern (as a beer drinker) when drinking & camping is that what goes in inevitably has to come out ...

As above, if there's any chance of needing to move on then I'd not drink at all these days.
 
Sorry, T6 CFO, no jury - magistrates only.
If you have had a drink, if you're parked up, top up, blinds closed, bed made, and plod knocks, don't get out, stay in your PJ's, and don't respond. Powers of entry very limited, so don't provide them with the grounds to request a breath test.
Keys - not really an issue as the ability to actually drive is not needed - a flat tyre or other mechanical defect can be disregarded by the magistrate in considering the likelihood of driving.
Cali and motorhome owners are not the only ones in this predicament, every lorry driver who sleeps over in the cab is in the same position. There reality is that those sleeping in a vehicle that is obviously made for sleeping in are unlikely to get disturbed by the rozzers, especially if in a location where stop overs are expected or accepted.
The biggest risk to your licence is the next morning - drive over the limit and you have no defence.
 
I had read that if you move your vehicle on your drive whilst intoxicated your breaking the law unless your drive has a gate. Apparent a gate could be a piece of rope strung across the entrance, anyone know if this correct ?
 
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I had read that if you move you vehicle on your drive whilst intoxicated your breaking the law unless your drive has a gate. Apparent a gate could be a piece of rope strung across the entrance, anyone know if this correct ?
Disagree.
The law states Road or public place.
A single drive is generally a private place - but the pavement at the bottom isn't, so get that far and the line is crossed.
Moving a vehicle whilst intoxicated is inherently dangerous though - garage doors, walls, posts, all jump out, not to mention other people around you.
 
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