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EGR delete

Bobbybus

Bobbybus

Learning how to be a hedonist...
VIP Member
Messages
283
Location
Leeds
Vehicle
T5 SE 180 4Motion
There have been so many EGR failures, some causing immense problems, inconvenience and expense (new engine) with no guarantee that there won't be further problems with the latest version of EGR valve.
Though technically illegal, what are peoples thoughts on a permanent delete? Do the potential benefits outweigh the negatives?
 
Mine is still active after over 9 years, and besides the bad EGR valve/cooler installed from factory (first series of T5.1 of end 2009), after the replacement after 3.5 years I have had no EGR related problems in the other 5.5 years. Most of the times the Cali is used for going to work 12 km single trip.
I just had a temperature sensor broken inside the particular filter. I have had no other engine problems whatsoever in those 9.5 years of driving the van.
 
As the environmental issues continue to rise up the agenda, so to will the requirements for the MOT test, with the likelihood that any vehicle with a deleted EGR will fail, if not now, eventually.

There is another moral question to ask yourself too. It is bad enough having a diesel powered vehicle, how would you feel if a child was severely affected by Nox or particulates from your EGR deleted engine as you passed by? This is already the case in many inner city schools beside main roads.

I for one, could not live with that, so my engine remains as designed and well maintained, and will continue to be so.

Alan
 
If this is such a common problem, why is it still happening. I have been quoted £371 to replace but that includes a 70% goodwill reduction on the part itself. Presumably it’s better to replace than clean it. The Cali is just 4 years old. Incidentally one of the folding chairs broke and the sliding door to the back cupboard did as well, all at the same time!
 
If this is such a common problem, why is it still happening. I have been quoted £371 to replace but that includes a 70% goodwill reduction on the part itself. Presumably it’s better to replace than clean it. The Cali is just 4 years old. Incidentally one of the folding chairs broke and the sliding door to the back cupboard did as well, all at the same time!
What was the milage?
 
Hi. Its 47000 miles
It happens. Mine was replaced at 900 miles and 2 weeks because the valve had an electrical fault. Now on 87,000 miles and 4 1/2 years and no problems since.
 
EGR removal is now illegal with up to a £2,500 fine for light commercial vehicles which would cover the Cali I assume.
 
I’ve got an 11 plate Cali (3 months into ownership) and having serviced it at a cost of £1000 (cambelt, pump, DSG, filters, etc) at an independent run by a friend, the oil light has come on 1200 miles later.

Its using a litre roughly every 800 miles. I’ve topped it up for now and it’s running fine but it’s only a matter of time until either the turbos or engine fail:


My options are:

1. Go to VW, pay £170 to dump oil and replace with weighed amount, and then drive 660 miles before re-weighing. At this point only will they talk money. But I’m told that I’d almost certainly need a new engine, turbos, DPF, and EGR end up paying the same as #2… IF they decided to show any good will at all. 2yr warranty.

2. New engine, ancillaries, two turbos, and a new EGR valve £10k+ From an independent. 2yr warranty.

3. New engine, ancillaries, two recon turbos, EGR blanking plate, and remap to remove EGR with 220bhp from Retro Resus in Bridgewater £7500 / 1yr or 12000 mile warranty - am told they rebuild T6’s with the same issue (version D EGRs are better but still made of same materials to same design and still have same issue just to a lesser degree) so really not keen on #1 or #2

4. Buy a remanufactured engine from an eBay rebuilder in Stourbridge, and also have them fit two new turbos, EGR delete, and remap ~£5000

5. There is of course the option of selling a) to some unsuspecting mug like me which I’m not prepared to do, or b) sell for ~£31000 through the trade and then roll the dice again paying ~£40,000 for an equivalent with the same flawed desigb

Either way, we’ve got a massive bill incoming that we could never have budgeted for (oh and the roof needs doing).

Questions:
Has anyone….
1. Got a high mileage (120k+) Cali that’s still going strong?
2. Had the retro refurb package for a few years?
3. Had a remanufactured engine fitted?

Any advice very much appreciated, especially from those who went down any of these routes.
 
I’ve got an 11 plate Cali (3 months into ownership) and having serviced it at a cost of £1000 (cambelt, pump, DSG, filters, etc) at an independent run by a friend, the oil light has come on 1200 miles later.

Its using a litre roughly every 800 miles. I’ve topped it up for now and it’s running fine but it’s only a matter of time until either the turbos or engine fail:


My options are:

1. Go to VW, pay £170 to dump oil and replace with weighed amount, and then drive 660 miles before re-weighing. At this point only will they talk money. But I’m told that I’d almost certainly need a new engine, turbos, DPF, and EGR end up paying the same as #2… IF they decided to show any good will at all. 2yr warranty.

2. New engine, ancillaries, two turbos, and a new EGR valve £10k+ From an independent. 2yr warranty.

3. New engine, ancillaries, two recon turbos, EGR blanking plate, and remap to remove EGR with 220bhp from Retro Resus in Bridgewater £7500 / 1yr or 12000 mile warranty - am told they rebuild T6’s with the same issue (version D EGRs are better but still made of same materials to same design and still have same issue just to a lesser degree) so really not keen on #1 or #2

4. Buy a remanufactured engine from an eBay rebuilder in Stourbridge, and also have them fit two new turbos, EGR delete, and remap ~£5000

5. There is of course the option of selling a) to some unsuspecting mug like me which I’m not prepared to do, or b) sell for ~£31000 through the trade and then roll the dice again paying ~£40,000 for an equivalent with the same flawed desigb

Either way, we’ve got a massive bill incoming that we could never have budgeted for (oh and the roof needs doing).

Questions:
Has anyone….
1. Got a high mileage (120k+) Cali that’s still going strong?
2. Had the retro refurb package for a few years?
3. Had a remanufactured engine fitted?

Any advice very much appreciated, especially from those who went down any of these routes.
Sorry to hear that. 2010/2011 There were a number of CFCA engines that had excessive oil consumption that were replaced by VW. Subsequently the EGR has been blamed but not proven.
My 2014 180 biturbo has just passed 100,372 miles. The EGR was changed 2 weeks after registration due to an electrical fault. Oil consumption 250 mls/ 20,000 miles.
 
My van is now on 123kmls and had a new engine from Germany fitted by my local dealer due to the notorious CFCA oil consumption issues.

I think your turbos will probably be OK. The Diesel Particulate Filter in the exhaust system may well be clagged though.

Back in 2016, I struggled on for about 9 months, checking and topping up the oil regularly. Eventually, the engine went into permanent limp mode and the only solution was a new one.
That was fitted by my local VW dealer back in December 2016 at a mileage of 96857. The Turbos are original though but the DPF had to be replaced then too.

The version EGR I have now is the suffix D version and since the engine was fitted the van has done a further 23000mls with no oil consumption between annual services.

I suspect your local VW dealer will not replace the engine without having done the weighted oil/660mls test first.

An independent you trust is probably the best route for you, the full or short engine can be supplied by TPS. Much of the original kit can be transferred such and cam belt, turbos, alternator, air-con compressor etc.

As EGR blanking/deleting is now illegal and will be spotted at your next MOT, that is not an option, even it was ever was one morally.

Alan
 
Sorry to hear that. I think you’ve probably covered your options. You may find it difficult to move on to a trade buyer at a reasonable price, most, if not all, are aware of the oil issues and will either avoid it or price accordingly.

I sold mine to a trade buyer, I took a hit with the price, but I couldn’t have lived with myself selling privately, Although looking at the for sale section on here, I think many do.
 
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Can you simply map out the EGR or do you need to fit a blanking plate?
I’ve heard you can just map it out so it stays shut and therefore not exposing the gases to the cooler. Far from an expert though. I’m leaning towards a new block from vw and based on what others said above about the turbos perhaps it’s worth risking leaving them in as that would offset the cost of the new block (as opposed to a remanufactured one). Thanks everyone.
On the moral dilemma of EGR delete, I could fit a version D, or delete it. Deleting it means the engine won’t fail again but there will be more emissions from my van. Fitting a D is going to mean it fails again prematurely at some point in its live and burns a load more oil. Hard to say which is worse. Morally perhaps we should all stop running vws!?
 
Driving a 2012 T5.1 SE 180 manual gearbox (CFCA engine + A type EGR).
No significant oil usage after 15k km so far, but will keep monitoring this closely.
No turbo issue.
Milage 188k km

Had the clutch replaced (both master and slave cilinder at 183k) and with that also replaced the two mass fly wheels.
Previous owner had the gearbelt replaced I was told, but VW is unable to trace that so like done by a independant garage or not.

The original D type EGR also has issue I understood. Apperently these guys use a aftermarket model from same manufacuter as the VW parts. The single turbo model also is much better they said.

Local garage who fixed my clutch suggested to remove the EGR, write it blank and get it reregistered without. Much better driving but some more emission, but I find the latter hard to weigh in.

My driving style is easy, some local commute, low use of turbos, use cruise-control when possible.

I would probale swap the engine out for a revised one, incl turbo's + remove the EGR on that one.

Will check the compression on my own van, to get a better understanding of current state. Based on that decide to remove EGR as a whole or leave as is (cost being the major decision driver).
 
Just bumping this thread with an update. I went for a new block, new turbos, and EGR delete (blanked with an oil filter housing off the 140 engine looks legit). Also had to have a remap put on to get the ECU to forget the EGR.

Retro Resus in Bridgewater did an incredible job, best price I could find and my friendly mechanic says their work looks flawless - probably better than if the local VW branch had done it - and even with VWs discount (had I successfully proved to them it was burning oil), still cheaper too.

It’s just flown through its MOT and emissions were all well within tolerance.

It feels like a new van - it’s seriously quick now and having put H&Rs on it the handling matches.

If you are looking at buying a 180bhp California or Transporter, either don’t, or buy one that’s had this done. Otherwise you’ll be looking at a huge bill.

RR told me that they get vans with the later models of EGR in too - even T6s - with this issue. It just takes longer to show. What happens is the fins in the EGR cooler corrode and dump aluminium oxide (active ingredient in sandpaper) into your engine oil. This grinds your cylinders into an oval shape. That allows the oil to get past the piston rings and into the turbos (kills the bearings/seals) and then the oil clogs the DPF. My van had done 35k miles. And needed a new block/turbos.

The newer EGR coolers don’t corrode as badly, but they do still corrode, so it’s unlikely any will get to 200k, which is what most modern diesel engines should be capable of.

The 140 engine is much more solid. But this affects ALL bi turbo 180bhp+ VW vans from 5.1 onwards.

Hope others can benefit from my bitter experience!
 
Well done for getting it sorted. Another good report for RR.
Now you have a keeper. Enjoy the van and happy travels. :thumb
 

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