Gas drop out vent in Beach pod

[Graeme Reid]

I have made a nice kitchen pod for my 2016 cally beach. I have used a Smev 8322 twin hob sink unit and it looks like a nice bit of kit. As usual with these things it came with a thick book with around 5 pages of not so helpful fitting instructions in about 30 different languages (thanks smev). I have all the electrics completed and connecting the gas will be easy enough but my problem is the gas drop out vent. I really don't want to cut a hole in the floor of my new beach. I am concerned how this will effect the warranty, re-sale value and also where is safe to drill the hole. Before building my own pod I looked at many prebuilt units and don't recall any mention of drilling holes in the floor for them? So can anyone help on the following;
Will this effect my warranty?
Is there a safe place to drill the hole?
Is there a work around for this?
How does the cally ocean vent the gas and is there an existing hole somewhere in the floor that is used by the ocean?

 

[Max-Felix]

This is why most of us use cartridge cookers with Beach pods, so much easier especially when in the summer 99% of cooking is outside. Cheap, simple, flexible. You need a sealed gas locker and you will need a drop out vent in the floor. And a gas inspection for the insurance.

 

[andyinluton]

Could you not plumb in the hob to use the small disposable gas containers? if the whole pod is removable it won't need inspections / insurers notifying, it would be no different to carrying a gas BBQ in the boot of a car.

Once you get into sealed lockers, dropout vents etc its a permanent installation & a totally different matter.

 

[WelshGas]

I have made a nice kitchen pod for my 2016 cally beach. I have used a Smev 8322 twin hob sink unit and it looks like a nice bit of kit. As usual with these things it came with a thick book with around 5 pages of not so helpful fitting instructions in about 30 different languages (thanks smev). I have all the electrics completed and connecting the gas will be easy enough but my problem is the gas drop out vent. I really don't want to cut a hole in the floor of my new beach. I am concerned how this will effect the warranty, re-sale value and also where is safe to drill the hole. Before building my own pod I looked at many prebuilt units and don't recall any mention of drilling holes in the floor for them? So can anyone help on the following;
Will this effect my warranty?
Is there a safe place to drill the hole?
Is there a work around for this?
How does the cally ocean vent the gas and is there an existing hole somewhere in the floor that is used by the ocean?

On the Ocean the gas cylinder is carried in a Sealed Gas locker built into the water tank with a Gas Drop out in the L rear, looking into the boot from outside. As has been mentioned, Pods built for the Beach normally use Self Sealing Cartridge type Burners so they can be easily moved outside. If you want a permanent installation with a re-chargeable gas cylinder then you have a problem. Sorry.

 

[2into1]

I suggest you'd cripple the resale value of your van if you cut a hole in the floor.
Cartridges are the way to go, although I'm not sure how you'd plumb them to your smev, but I bet that's easier than the alternative. You won't be the first to face the challenge of cartridge to hob.

 

[Max-Felix]

I'd lose the Smev (and the sink - but more on that to come in my just started Kitchen Pod MKII topic). Really cartridge cookers are powerful, portable and when bought in bulk (the cans) actually cheaper than UK refills for a CG cylinder.

If you are insistent on going 'built in' there is an opening/gasket in the floor under the passenger seat from the factory but how you'd fashion a gas drop out into there safely and to meet regs etc is hard to fathom. As for cutting a hole through the near side trim/rail area of the floor where a pod would be sited - I just would not full stop.

 

[MattBW]

I think this is why my pod uses disposable cans too, always remove them when not in use too.

The problem with this is the standards document is £160 so it hard to fathom the exact requirement.

Some useful info here:

http://buildacampervan.com/gas-supply/

 

[Graeme Reid]

Thanks for all the help on this. Although the pod looks built in it is only held in the vehicle with two bolts to the floor and one screw so it is easily removable. It would be interesting to know just how many people have removable pods but don't actually remove them. I have used a portable gas since I got the van last year and just wanted to upgrade a bit to two rings. Maybe I was a bit too keen and should have incorporated the portable into my design. I can always change it for a sink only by replacing the worktop. Off to Keswick mountain festival this weekend so sink working but I guess portable gas stove for cooking. Thanks again. I'll maybe post a picture of my pod later.

 

[owen_h]

very rarely remove my pod, maybe twice a year if I need to use in full van mode. I also went for cartridges rather than cylinder as far cheaper and easier to fit.
Drilling large holes in the floor was beyond my DIY comfort level. Maybe a good converter could come up with a tube that had end caps when the pod wasn't in place. The gas locker would also take up a fair amount of storage space.
Another possibility could be to use an alcohol stove. The early T4 Californias had this solution and its common on sailing boats (where gas drop out holes are not an option ).

 

[Bellcrew]

very rarely remove my pod, maybe twice a year if I need to use in full van mode. I also went for cartridges rather than cylinder as far cheaper and easier to fit.
Drilling large holes in the floor was beyond my DIY comfort level. Maybe a good converter could come up with a tube that had end caps when the pod wasn't in place. The gas locker would also take up a fair amount of storage space.
Another possibility could be to use an alcohol stove. The early T4 Californias had this solution and its common on sailing boats (where gas drop out holes are not an option ).

Whilst spirit and paraffin stoves are fitted to sailing boats I would guess used in about 5% of the total modern UK fleet, the vast majority have the gas cylinder in a self draining locker that exits above the waterline.
The use of smaller gas cartridges does not avoid the possibility of leaks into the vehicle just the quantity of gas that could be released. I suppose the use of a Wallas 85DT flush mounted diesel hob would be a safe alternative but would obviously not be practical in a removable pod.

 

[rod_vw]

It may not be so much the warranty that could be jeopardised (and I don't think it would) but your insurance would most likely be null and void if there were not a gas drop-out provided for any cavity below a possible gas leak. I consider this to be any point where there is an appliance or joint in the plumbing.
I believe there is a minimum cross sectional area for such gas drop-outs as those that I use have 760sq mm embossed on them, these fit in a 50mm diameter hole.

If you do decide to bore a hole in the floor do some careful measuring as the lower side box sections of the body of a T5/6 are wider than they look. You will probably find that you will need the hole centre to be at least five and a half inches from the inner side panel but measure, don't take my word for it.
Also remember that there is a fuel tank under the left side of the vehicle!

Rod

 

[MattBW]

Another possibility could be to use an alcohol stove. The early T4 Californias had this solution and its common on sailing boats (where gas drop out holes are not an option ).

Funnily enough I bought one of these when I was looking at an Ikea alex option, its lovely but I never used it. I had planned to do a few comparisons with a gas stove for the Campervan Cookout channel but its low down my list. It will no doubt be less effective and not as hot as gas.


If your fuel spills it should evaporate too and suitable fuel can usually be purchased very cheaply across europe..

http://www.cansrl.com/en/marine/gel...tainless-steel-with-gel-alcohol-fuel_157.html

 

[Digger]

Asked at my VW specialist re cutting holes and their answer was unless done by approved VW conversion company they thought the bodywork warranty would be compromised if not cancelled. It is after all a 2016 vehicle.
Would it not be better to ask VWCS direct for authoritative answer.

 

[Graeme Reid]

Thanks guys, so unless I can figure out a way of tapping into the existing hole used by the ocean hole in the floor is out. Any idea how slide pods get round this problem surely when it's in the stored position it has the same issue? Here's a couple of pics. Its not quite finished yet as I am going to put a long storage box on the floor running along the side of the van with a hinged lid and also a cutlery slide out drawer under the extra worktop under the window. All removable and still enables the bed to be fully extended.

 

[Max-Felix]

Looks a great piece of work, why not pop up a build topic?

The other option might be an under slung refillable tank (which VW should do anyway) and bring in the gas from there.

 

[Graeme Reid]

Looks a great piece of work, why not pop up a build topic?

The other option might be an under slung refillable tank (which VW should do anyway) and bring in the gas from there.

That's a good idea, I'll

 

[Graeme Reid]

Oops. I'll look into that next week

 

[rod_vw]

As I said before, your insurance may be compromised. Having built a number of campers I know that some insurance companies demand a gas test certificate for the installation before they will insure the vehicle. Any inspector will check that drop-outs are provided, cylinder is secured in a locker with its own drop-out along with doing a gas leak tests etc. before issuing a certificate.

Also an under-slung tank won't help as a gas drop-out is necessary in all locations where an escape could cause a build-up of gas within the vehicle, that includes where the appliance is located.

Re the warranty, yes VW could kick up if you made a bodywork claim for body corrosion in the vicinity of the hole but that should not have any effect on the remainder of the body. Common sense corrosion inhibiting paint etc around the hole should suffice.

Rod

 

[Max-Felix]

I cannot believe that a gas drop out is needed with an external tank as you describe - never heard of that??

That means the factory Cali would need a gas drop out under the hob which is obviously not the case. Or under the cut off valve where a junction is etc, etc...

 

[Graeme Reid]

Rod, I'm still puzzled as to how other kitchen pods get round this, are you saying that as far as insurance is concerned none of them meet the requirements?

 

[andyinluton]

As I said before, your insurance may be compromised. Having built a number of campers I know that some insurance companies demand a gas test certificate for the installation before they will insure the vehicle. A
Rod

A removable pod is not a modification to the vehicle - its a bit of luggage thats hopefully fixed down securely. The beach is already described as a camper van and insured as such. There is no need to get anyone to inspect anything.
As I said previously its little different to chucking a gas BBQ in the boot of your car.

A permanently fixed pod or anything involving fixing gas tanks or converting an ordinary van to a camper is a different scenario which could require inspections etc.

 

[Max-Felix]

Graeme, I think many of us have said this from the start of this topic. If you install a (in effect) permanently installed cylinder fed gas system (either external tank or internal sealed gas locker with drop out) as you intend to with a Smev hob then all insurance companies will need an inspection certificate and many may not even insure you regardless. If you buy a recognised conversion second hand, ie Bilbos etc this should not in most cases be necessary.

If you use portable cartridge cookers then it's a different story.

 

[Graeme Reid]

So the difference of whether I require a drop out vent or need to inform my insurance company is in the description of whether the pod is removable or fixed? As I have said, my pod is removable so in that case I assume that I don't have to have a drop out vent? Is there any difference to my pod to this one from Vangear or the really nice unit from clearcut conversions (wish I could have fitted that in), neither of these or many other I have seen mention anything about a required drop out vent. There really isn't anything more permanent about my pod over these examples.

 

[Max-Felix]

Only way to be sure is to contact your insurance company and tell them the details of your plan.

Regardless, surely you would want one for your own peace of mind and safety??

 

[owen_h]

Have a look at the info in this link:
http://www.justkampers.com/jkblog/a-summary-of-gas-safety-information-for-campervans--motorhomes-123
and also this one (refrenced in the JK article )
https://www.campervanlife.com/camping/gas-bottles/

Couple of points mentioned:
the BS spec is only mandatory if you are renting the van out. (or used for work purposes)
I cant see anything in there about dropouts for subsequent pipework or connections to the hob (only dropout for the bottle storage).

If your insurer / campsite owner etc insists on an installation to BS standard (with matching certificate) that is up to them. Its a question of risk, insurer if they might have to pay out on a claim, your risk of injury/death if the van explodes due to trapped gas.


I'm liking the idea of an underslung tank such as this:
https://www.propexheatsource.co.uk/underslung-lpg-vapour-tanks
Not sure if there is the possibility to have a removable connection point to the pod though. Or just how much it costs.