Grand California Leisure Battery not charging from engine

[far.landscape]

Hi all, I have found that the leisure battery in my GC600 is not charging while the engine is running, regardless of whether the dash button is pressed or not.

I have been able to fully prove this now I have a bluetooth battery voltage gauge attached directly to the leisure battery. The voltage is constant (and dropping, unless solar is contributing or on hookup) irrespective of engine state. Solar and hookup charging works as expected, but never any engine charge contribution.

I believe from previous threads that it should charge while the engine is running, although I could be interpreting that wrong, and was not clear if this would only be the case while the dash button was pressed. Regardless, it is never charging at all while the engine is running, regardless of the dash button, unless the solar is giving a charge, or when on hookup.

Does anyone else recognise this issue and happen to know any potential fixes before I have to make the long trek to the dealer? Or am I wrong to expect a leisure battery charge contribution while the engine alternator is active? I had thought it was a split charge system. I have not measured it, but judging by the vehicle startup behaviour, I'm pretty sure the vehicle battery is in good condition, and the leisure battery is brand new and in excellent condition.

The dash button I'm referring to, for reference (it does light up when I press it while the engine is running, but it has no impact on the voltage of the leisure battery regardless of how long it is left on)...

 

[Eber123]

Hello,

As far as I know the both batteries (leisure as well as car battery) will be charged when the engine is running.

My understanding is, that the button on the dashboard you pointed out is a kind of "booster" that charges the leisure battery quicker. This means that the revs should be a bit higher and on long run the diesel consumption is a wee bit higher.

The solar panel will charge the batteries as soon as the engine is off.

What I don't know is to check how much the solar panel charges the batteries. I know in the boot there are some LEDs that provide some information, but on the camper unite I can't see the voltage with what the solar panel the leisure battery charges

As I mentioned above, on the long run I wouldn't use the button on the dashboard to "boost" the leisure battery. I don't believe it is designed for long term use and uses more diesel etc.

Happy Grand California
Eberhard

 

[far.landscape]

Hello,

As far as I know the both batteries (leisure as well as car battery) will be charged when the engine is running.

My understanding is, that the button on the dashboard you pointed out is a kind of "booster" that charges the leisure battery quicker. This means that the revs should be a bit higher and on long run the diesel consumption is a wee bit higher.

The solar panel will charge the batteries as soon as the engine is off.

What I don't know is to check how much the solar panel charges the batteries. I know in the boot there are some LEDs that provide some information, but on the camper unite I can't see the voltage with what the solar panel the leisure battery charges

As I mentioned above, on the long run I wouldn't use the button on the dashboard to "boost" the leisure battery. I don't believe it is designed for long term use and uses more diesel etc.

Happy Grand California
Eberhard

Thanks, well, I’m definitely not getting any charge at all to the leisure battery from the engine while the engine is running (but I do get charge to the leisure battery from Solar, if there is sun and driving in the right direction).

 

[Jester]

Thanks, well, I’m definitely not getting any charge at all to the leisure battery from the engine while the engine is running (but I do get charge to the leisure battery from Solar, if there is sun and driving in the right direction).

Maybe it doesn’t need it and is fully charged?

 

[Ch1pbutty]

Hi all, I have found that the leisure battery in my GC600 is not charging while the engine is running, regardless of whether the dash button is pressed or not.

I have been able to fully prove this now I have a bluetooth battery voltage gauge attached directly to the leisure battery. The voltage is constant (and dropping, unless solar is contributing or on hookup) irrespective of engine state. Solar and hookup charging works as expected, but never any engine charge contribution.

I believe from previous threads that it should charge while the engine is running, although I could be interpreting that wrong, and was not clear if this would only be the case while the dash button was pressed. Regardless, it is never charging at all while the engine is running, regardless of the dash button, unless the solar is giving a charge, or when on hookup.

Does anyone else recognise this issue and happen to know any potential fixes before I have to make the long trek to the dealer? Or am I wrong to expect a leisure battery charge contribution while the engine alternator is active? I had thought it was a split charge system. I have not measured it, but judging by the vehicle startup behaviour, I'm pretty sure the vehicle battery is in good condition, and the leisure battery is brand new and in excellent condition.

The dash button I'm referring to, for reference (it does light up when I press it while the engine is running, but it has no impact on the voltage of the leisure battery regardless of how long it is left on)...

View attachment 84051

What voltage reading do you get off the leisure battery basis below.

- solar when stationary in daylight
- engine running

I don’t think that the solar will charge at all when the engine is running as the alternator takes over (but I might be wrong).

 

[far.landscape]

Maybe it doesn’t need it and is fully charged?

Unfortunately not that, it will continue to drain the battery regardless of starting voltage. Eg I started a trip with 12.4v and ended it with 12.1v.

 

[WelshGas]

Hi all, I have found that the leisure battery in my GC600 is not charging while the engine is running, regardless of whether the dash button is pressed or not.

I have been able to fully prove this now I have a bluetooth battery voltage gauge attached directly to the leisure battery. The voltage is constant (and dropping, unless solar is contributing or on hookup) irrespective of engine state. Solar and hookup charging works as expected, but never any engine charge contribution.

I believe from previous threads that it should charge while the engine is running, although I could be interpreting that wrong, and was not clear if this would only be the case while the dash button was pressed. Regardless, it is never charging at all while the engine is running, regardless of the dash button, unless the solar is giving a charge, or when on hookup.

Does anyone else recognise this issue and happen to know any potential fixes before I have to make the long trek to the dealer? Or am I wrong to expect a leisure battery charge contribution while the engine alternator is active? I had thought it was a split charge system. I have not measured it, but judging by the vehicle startup behaviour, I'm pretty sure the vehicle battery is in good condition, and the leisure battery is brand new and in excellent condition.

The dash button I'm referring to, for reference (it does light up when I press it while the engine is running, but it has no impact on the voltage of the leisure battery regardless of how long it is left on)...

View attachment 84051

I am not conversant with the GC but VW don't make changes for the sake of it. On the California from the T5 through to the T6.1, the Leisure Battery is charged via a Split Charge relay located close to the main leisure battery located under the front passenger seat. There is also a brown 80 amp fuse between relay and battery.

On the GC the leisure battery is under the bonnet, I believe. Check any large amp fuses in the locality. The split charge relay should also be close by.

 

[Steve Gray]

I have just been in the VW commercial Vehicle garage and had a discussion on this. My GC 600 does not have solar panel and battery drained over 4 days from 100% to 40% with nothing on. The technician has said you must switch off the habitation isolator if stood. The button on the dash needs to be pressed to charge leisure battery. He had multi meter connected to leisure battery, he started the engine and meter reading remained at 12.9v on pressing the button the reading went up to 14.3v. He said pressing the button charges the leisure battery. Hook up charges both. He said he had three GC’s in when lock down started, when they returned all of the batteries were flat so he says switching off the main habitation battery stops the batteries going flat. It seems to be a common issues on the GC’s. This was from the master technician

 

[Steve Gray]

Hi all, I have found that the leisure battery in my GC600 is not charging while the engine is running, regardless of whether the dash button is pressed or not.

I have been able to fully prove this now I have a bluetooth battery voltage gauge attached directly to the leisure battery. The voltage is constant (and dropping, unless solar is contributing or on hookup) irrespective of engine state. Solar and hookup charging works as expected, but never any engine charge contribution.

I believe from previous threads that it should charge while the engine is running, although I could be interpreting that wrong, and was not clear if this would only be the case while the dash button was pressed. Regardless, it is never charging at all while the engine is running, regardless of the dash button, unless the solar is giving a charge, or when on hookup.

Does anyone else recognise this issue and happen to know any potential fixes before I have to make the long trek to the dealer? Or am I wrong to expect a leisure battery charge contribution while the engine alternator is active? I had thought it was a split charge system. I have not measured it, but judging by the vehicle startup behaviour, I'm pretty sure the vehicle battery is in good condition, and the leisure battery is brand new and in excellent condition.

The dash button I'm referring to, for reference (it does light up when I press it while the engine is running, but it has no impact on the voltage of the leisure battery regardless of how long it is left on)...

View attachment 84051

Connect your multi Meter on the battery positive and the main engine earth as connecting across the battery could cause faults. Just had long conversation with VW master tech at the VW centre and never swap the main battery with the leisure battery they are the same batteries but they are coded and again unless the codes are put in the systems this causes charging problems. The battery’s are AGM ( Aborsorb Glass Matt) over charging or running flat damaged them!

 

[T3Z-GB]

Be interested to know what your control panel indicates when the engine is running with both the buttons pressed and not.
I have the GC600 with solar and it charges with or without the button pressed when the engine is idling, all that really happens is the engine idles higher when pressed but without an increase amperage.

 

[Eber123]

Hello,

May I get back to the "button on the dashboard".

I had a look in the GC manual. On page 168 it says:

"... You can activate the maximum battery charge function..." continue reading "... The function increases the idling speed of the engine ... fuel consumption may increse..."

I understand this information that the leisure battery will be charge from the engine as standard, but this will be slower and maybe not to full capacity as in comparison when the "button is pressed".

But with the "button to maximum battery charge" the charging time will be quicker and maybe to a fuller capacity. But this comes with a price because of higher engine idling which results in higher diesel consumption.

Because of this the button is an option to be used in special circumstances and maybe not on a daily baises.

Happy fully charged Grand California,
Eberhard

 

[T3Z-GB]

Hello,

May I get back to the "button on the dashboard".

I had a look in the GC manual. On page 168 it says:

"... You can activate the maximum battery charge function..." continue reading "... The function increases the idling speed of the engine ... fuel consumption may increse..."

I understand this information that the leisure battery will be charge from the engine as standard, but this will be slower and maybe not to full capacity as in comparison when the "button is pressed".

But with the "button to maximum battery charge" the charging time will be quicker and maybe to a fuller capacity. But this comes with a price because of higher engine idling which results in higher diesel consumption.

Because of this the button is an option to be used in special circumstances and maybe not on a daily baises.

Happy fully charged Grand California,
Eberhard

Thanks Eberhard, Thats probably why I never noticed much of a difference apart from a higher idle speed. Never left it on long enough to charge up fully.
My confusions with this whole off grid debacle is why could VW simply have placed the engine starter battery in the engine bay and the leisure battery under the seat. Would have made it so easy to upgrade to lithium.
I realise it’s based on the crafter, but with the amount we spend on these vans, perhaps a different wiring harness for the camper is not such a big ask.

 

[far.landscape]

Thanks all above for the inputs. Just as a recap, my issue is that the leisure battery is not charging at all, regardless of whether that button is pressed or not.

Interesting point on the battery coding. The BEM code has not been reset since the leisure battery had to be changed. I believe that’s something only a VW dealer can do, so a trip to the dealer looks inevitable. If that’s the case though, it would make the leisure battery effectively not user replaceable, which seems unreasonable.

 

[Eber123]

Yes, VW should at least offer as an option to upgrade from AGM to LiFePo4 and inverter.

Using the GC more in remote areas and need better electric management a LiFePo4 battery and solar panel would help a lot. Also I would love to have an inverter to use the normal power sockets in the living area even when not hooked up. I would be happy to with 1,500 watts.

I know it is possible to build those things in afterwards, but it has to be from a 3rd party company and that might can cause problems with warranty. Also I can't see anybody in ROI offering a service like this.

At the moment the electricity is ok (thanks to the good weather and the solar panel) and power is enough for 2 or 3 days. I don't believe we will stay somewhere longer than that and if we do it will be on a camp side.

So maybe what we have (VW standard setup) will do us well (and certainly will save us a lot of money).

Happy Grand California,
Eberhard

 

[far.landscape]

What voltage reading do you get off the leisure battery basis below.

- solar when stationary in daylight
- engine running

I don’t think that the solar will charge at all when the engine is running as the alternator takes over (but I might be wrong).

Depending on the state of charge, I can see well over 13v if the van is off hookup and the sun is out.

The example below is with the van off hookup all day, the fridge was running all day. At 2:30pm, the sun finally came out from behind the clouds. At 6:30pm I started the engine which ran for about 90mins. You’ll see there is no change to the voltage curve when the engine is running. All examples are like this.

 

[far.landscape]

Hello,

May I get back to the "button on the dashboard".

I had a look in the GC manual. On page 168 it says:

"... You can activate the maximum battery charge function..." continue reading "... The function increases the idling speed of the engine ... fuel consumption may increse..."

I understand this information that the leisure battery will be charge from the engine as standard, but this will be slower and maybe not to full capacity as in comparison when the "button is pressed".

But with the "button to maximum battery charge" the charging time will be quicker and maybe to a fuller capacity. But this comes with a price because of higher engine idling which results in higher diesel consumption.

Because of this the button is an option to be used in special circumstances and maybe not on a daily baises.

Happy fully charged Grand California,
Eberhard

Thanks for this. I did check the manual but DOH, didn’t see it. Will check your page ref tomorrow just in case I have a different version somehow.

I never / rarely press the button anyway, because for me, I know it currently does nothing.

 

[far.landscape]

Be interested to know what your control panel indicates when the engine is running with both the buttons pressed and not.
I have the GC600 with solar and it charges with or without the button pressed when the engine is idling, all that really happens is the engine idles higher when pressed but without an increase amperage.

That’s exactly what I was looking for, confirmation that it SHOULD charge when the engine is at idle. Mine doesn’t.

You may not have seen my previous thread where I talked about the display issue I have with the control panel. It never shows the correct battery SOC. that’s why I have the Bluetooth monitor.

The useless control panel I can live with. No engine charging, I can’t. Seems like another obscure issue I have so unavoidable to visit a dealer it seems…

 

[far.landscape]

Connect your multi Meter on the battery positive and the main engine earth as connecting across the battery could cause faults. Just had long conversation with VW master tech at the VW centre and never swap the main battery with the leisure battery they are the same batteries but they are coded and again unless the codes are put in the systems this causes charging problems. The battery’s are AGM ( Aborsorb Glass Matt) over charging or running flat damaged them!

Thanks. In case it wasn’t clear, I haven’t swapped the vehicle battery with the leisure battery. I have just replaced the leisure battery with a new one of the same specification. The old one died due to issues with the display not showing the correct SOC (and probably, a total lack of engine charging).

The charge controller (voltronic) prevents over charging, by reducing to a float voltage after its charge cycle.

 

[far.landscape]

Yes, VW should at least offer as an option to upgrade from AGM to LiFePo4 and inverter.

Using the GC more in remote areas and need better electric management a LiFePo4 battery and solar panel would help a lot. Also I would love to have an inverter to use the normal power sockets in the living area even when not hooked up. I would be happy to with 1,500 watts.

I know it is possible to build those things in afterwards, but it has to be from a 3rd party company and that might can cause problems with warranty. Also I can't see anybody in ROI offering a service like this.

At the moment the electricity is ok (thanks to the good weather and the solar panel) and power is enough for 2 or 3 days. I don't believe we will stay somewhere longer than that and if we do it will be on a camp side.

So maybe what we have (VW standard setup) will do us well (and certainly will save us a lot of money).

Happy Grand California,
Eberhard

That aligns with my results - I get 2.5 days with the fridge running and relatively frugal use of the water pump and heaters and minimal contribution from solar (predominately overcast conditions).

However, it seems I’m getting no engine charging at all, so on an average trip, I think it could well be longer than that if you do get engine charging.

 

[T3Z-GB]

That’s exactly what I was looking for, confirmation that it SHOULD charge when the engine is at idle. Mine doesn’t.

You may not have seen my previous thread where I talked about the display issue I have with the control panel. It never shows the correct battery SOC. that’s why I have the Bluetooth monitor.

The useless control panel I can live with. No engine charging, I can’t. Seems like another obscure issue I have so unavoidable to visit a dealer it seems…

100% agree with your comment on the control panel. Iv recently last week had the latest software update, and yet cannot believe a thing on the control panel. The power percentage is never correct, tonight when going for a shower I checked the water, it read 60% came out the shower and it read 50% later checked again after I made some coffee and it has gone back up to 58% there is nothing but nothing I believe on the control panel some days it will show the grey water as 23% full after Iv just drained it. There is no consistency with any part of it. Im not convinced though that it’s the panel, because when I check the solar controller it never shows the battery is over 80% charged even when the control panel says it’s at 100% even after a 5 hour drive.
Prior to upgrading my solar next month Im going to install a Victron smart shunt and compare. If the problem is the charge controller, I’ll bin that and install a Victron again. It’s worth paying a couple hundred for the 2 rather then dealing with the VW dealership and this control panel doing my head in every day.

Will write a post once all this is done.

 

[far.landscape]

100% agree with your comment on the control panel. Iv recently last week had the latest software update, and yet cannot believe a thing on the control panel. The power percentage is never correct, tonight when going for a shower I checked the water, it read 60% came out the shower and it read 50% later checked again after I made some coffee and it has gone back up to 58% there is nothing but nothing I believe on the control panel some days it will show the grey water as 23% full after Iv just drained it. There is no consistency with any part of it. Im not convinced though that it’s the panel, because when I check the solar controller it never shows the battery is over 80% charged even when the control panel says it’s at 100% even after a 5 hour drive.
Prior to upgrading my solar next month Im going to install a Victron smart shunt and compare. If the problem is the charge controller, I’ll bin that and install a Victron again. It’s worth paying a couple hundred for the 2 rather then dealing with the VW dealership and this control panel doing my head in every day.

Will write a post once all this is done.

Will be very interested to hear how that goes.

 

[yossarian]

Speculation: if the control panel thinks your battery state of charge is 100% perhaps it tells the bcm to not activate the split charge relay?

 

[Steve Gray]

Thanks all above for the inputs. Just as a recap, my issue is that the leisure battery is not charging at all, regardless of whether that button is pressed or not.

Interesting point on the battery coding. The BEM code has not been reset since the leisure battery had to be changed. I believe that’s something only a VW dealer can do, so a trip to the dealer looks inevitable. If that’s the case though, it would make the leisure battery effectively not user replaceable, which seems unreasonable.

If you have had your battery changed it will need coding to your vehicle. The VW Van Center Tech had a similar issue with a GC600 and the battery needed coding for it to charge the system he told me. Each battery is coded so they cannot be swapped around as they are coded to the vehicle system.

 

[far.landscape]

Speculation: if the control panel thinks your battery state of charge is 100% perhaps it tells the bcm to not activate the split charge relay?

That makes sense. Short of changing the IBS I don’t think I’ve anything left to try to fix that, so going to have to take a deep breath and take it to the dealer…

 

[T3Z-GB]

Final comment regarding this button. This morning I woke up to the control panel stating the battery percentage was 20% even though the voltage was reading 12.2 but that’s another conversation to be continued.
I thought this was a good opportunity to test the button again. Please see the 2 images with the button pressed and without. By my account at a battery state of 12.2v there is about a 10 or 11 amp boost when pressing the button.

Hopefully that helps.