HERE WE GO!! But Ocean or SE?

[The Mighty Pauls]

Hello to all you lovely people...

So, we have decide to take the plunge and go for a Cali - but would love a little bit of advice.

We have had T4s for years and currently have a high top 2.5tdi, which we love (plenty of power/relatively economical etc).

We essentially need to decide between a cheaper T5 SE (but with low miles) and a T6 Ocean - so here are my specific questions:

1 - Fifth Seat
As this will be our only vehicle, it's imperative that we have a fifth seat (although will only need occasionally when ferrying Granny around!)

When I spoke to the guy at VW in Bristol, he said that you can't replace the passenger seat in the T6 with a double seat (airbags etc?), but you can get one to fit in the rear rail. Is this the case with the SE? The replacement double front seat I have seen in other conversions would be my preference - how easy is it to get either option as an aftermarket item and for how much?

2 - Engines
As I mentioned - have been used to a practically trouble free 2.5 tdi in my T4 for many years - bombproof.

I have heard good things about the 180ps BiTurbo in the SE - but is the 150 in the T6 noticeably different? I have also read something about 10/11 180s having issues and engine replacements needed. Is there a particular plate to go for/avoid?


3 - Manual or DSG?
Love the idea of the T6 - but economy is important. I reckon my T4 gets somewhere in the late 30s on a run, but does struggle in the odd wet field. Is the 4 Motion thirstier? Does it present more issues down the line in terms of parts/servicing?


4 - 4 Motion?
I've always had manuals and am from the slightly old school of thought where I love the 'control' and driving experience of self shifting. But, that said - perhaps I need to stop being such an idiot!

I have read a lot on your fantastic forums about the benefits and smooth operation of the DSG, but in real world terms - how does it affect fuel economy and also servicing/parts?

5 - Vehicle Tax
I was really shocked when I priced up an 18 plate pre registered Ocean to then be told that the tax was going to be £1000 per year for first five years... Is my understanding correct that if I found a delivery mileage 17 or 67 plate, this wouldn't be the case?

I would really appreciate any thoughts you guys have on any of these questions. Having had a good look around your forums - everyone seems incredibly nice.

All the very best

 

[Sad]

You will probably get more thorough answers from individual searches across the forum rather than a full on thread like this, but for my tuppence worth:

1 - never seen a Cali with the 2 seat bench in the front. It's essentially a transporter van so can't see why you couldn't convert. But for very occasional use, I'd consider the individual 5th seat Cali option.

2 - don't know, seen lots about it on the forum though

3 - personal preference, test drive both. I feel I have just as much control with the auto/DSG box, but can merrily cruise and let the gearbox do the work when I don't need to.

4 - I expect heavier so increased fuel consumption and servicing

5 - our van is 10 this year, don't know of the top of my head

Good luck

 

[Brad Lintern]

Hello to all you lovely people...

So, we have decide to take the plunge and go for a Cali - but would love a little bit of advice.

We have had T4s for years and currently have a high top 2.5tdi, which we love (plenty of power/relatively economical etc).

We essentially need to decide between a cheaper T5 SE (but with low miles) and a T6 Ocean - so here are my specific questions:

1 - Fifth Seat
As this will be our only vehicle, it's imperative that we have a fifth seat (although will only need occasionally when ferrying Granny around!)

When I spoke to the guy at VW in Bristol, he said that you can't replace the passenger seat in the T6 with a double seat (airbags etc?), but you can get one to fit in the rear rail. Is this the case with the SE? The replacement double front seat I have seen in other conversions would be my preference - how easy is it to get either option as an aftermarket item and for how much?

2 - Engines
As I mentioned - have been used to a practically trouble free 2.5 tdi in my T4 for many years - bombproof.

I have heard good things about the 180ps BiTurbo in the SE - but is the 150 in the T6 noticeably different? I have also read something about 10/11 180s having issues and engine replacements needed. Is there a particular plate to go for/avoid?


3 - Manual or DSG?
Love the idea of the T6 - but economy is important. I reckon my T4 gets somewhere in the late 30s on a run, but does struggle in the odd wet field. Is the 4 Motion thirstier? Does it present more issues down the line in terms of parts/servicing?


4 - 4 Motion?
I've always had manuals and am from the slightly old school of thought where I love the 'control' and driving experience of self shifting. But, that said - perhaps I need to stop being such an idiot!

I have read a lot on your fantastic forums about the benefits and smooth operation of the DSG, but in real world terms - how does it affect fuel economy and also servicing/parts?

5 - Vehicle Tax
I was really shocked when I priced up an 18 plate pre registered Ocean to then be told that the tax was going to be £1000 per year for first five years... Is my understanding correct that if I found a delivery mileage 17 or 67 plate, this wouldn't be the case?

I would really appreciate any thoughts you guys have on any of these questions. Having had a good look around your forums - everyone seems incredibly nice.

All the very best

Just bought a ‘used’ Ocean with 10 miles on the clock. Road tax is £450 per year.

Can’t comment on the other points yet as only a day into ownership!! So far so good


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[Amarillo]

1 & 4
I may be mistaken, but I don't think you can have a 5th seat on a 4 motion T6 California.


Follow my blog: www.au-revoir.eu

 

[Pineweasel]

1 & 4
I may be mistaken, but I don't think you can have a 5th seat on a 4 motion T6 California.

Same is true for the T5

 

[T6 CFO]

4 Motion is thirstier and as already said you can’t have a 5th seat. Only two rails for seats on a 4 Motion. I believe it’s a weight issue.
Sounds to me as if you want a 150 with DSG. You will like a DSG. See Adrian at VW Bristol. He is excellent and should be able to sort you out with a test drive.


Mike


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[Farley]

Hello to all you lovely people...

So, we have decide to take the plunge and go for a Cali - but would love a little bit of advice.

We have had T4s for years and currently have a high top 2.5tdi, which we love (plenty of power/relatively economical etc).

We essentially need to decide between a cheaper T5 SE (but with low miles) and a T6 Ocean - so here are my specific questions:

1 - Fifth Seat
As this will be our only vehicle, it's imperative that we have a fifth seat (although will only need occasionally when ferrying Granny around!)

When I spoke to the guy at VW in Bristol, he said that you can't replace the passenger seat in the T6 with a double seat (airbags etc?), but you can get one to fit in the rear rail. Is this the case with the SE? The replacement double front seat I have seen in other conversions would be my preference - how easy is it to get either option as an aftermarket item and for how much?

2 - Engines
As I mentioned - have been used to a practically trouble free 2.5 tdi in my T4 for many years - bombproof.

I have heard good things about the 180ps BiTurbo in the SE - but is the 150 in the T6 noticeably different? I have also read something about 10/11 180s having issues and engine replacements needed. Is there a particular plate to go for/avoid?


3 - Manual or DSG?
Love the idea of the T6 - but economy is important. I reckon my T4 gets somewhere in the late 30s on a run, but does struggle in the odd wet field. Is the 4 Motion thirstier? Does it present more issues down the line in terms of parts/servicing?


4 - 4 Motion?
I've always had manuals and am from the slightly old school of thought where I love the 'control' and driving experience of self shifting. But, that said - perhaps I need to stop being such an idiot!

I have read a lot on your fantastic forums about the benefits and smooth operation of the DSG, but in real world terms - how does it affect fuel economy and also servicing/parts?

5 - Vehicle Tax
I was really shocked when I priced up an 18 plate pre registered Ocean to then be told that the tax was going to be £1000 per year for first five years... Is my understanding correct that if I found a delivery mileage 17 or 67 plate, this wouldn't be the case?

I would really appreciate any thoughts you guys have on any of these questions. Having had a good look around your forums - everyone seems incredibly nice.

All the very best

Well... my thoughts (for what they are worth...)

1, California Beach
The best choice of seating up to seven folk and swivel seats front and middle. All moveable on a rail in the rear.
2, I opted for the 2 litre 150 ho version. Plenty of power and close to 40 mpg (on the display) 37 on a 400 mile trip last weekend.
3, I always wanted manuals but, with the DSG Gearbox it is a treat to drive.
4, Not tried the 4 motion and didn’t see the need for it to be honest. It must drink more fuel though if that is important to you.
5, Well... I just payed £450 for 12 months....

Happy hunting!

I bought mine from VW UK. 12 months old and £11 to £12k less than list price with just under 6,000 miles on the clock.

Farl

 

[WelshGas]

Well... my thoughts (for what they are worth...)

1, California Beach
The best choice of seating up to seven folk and swivel seats front and middle. All moveable on a rail in the rear.
2, I opted for the 2 litre 150 ho version. Plenty of power and close to 40 mpg (on the display) 37 on a 400 mile trip last weekend.
3, I always wanted manuals but, with the DSG Gearbox it is a treat to drive.
4, Not tried the 4 motion and didn’t see the need for it to be honest. It must drink more fuel though if that is important to you.
5, Well... I just payed £450 for 12 months....

Happy hunting!

I bought mine from VW UK. 12 months old and £11 to £12k less than list price with just under 6,000 miles on the clock.

Farl

The Beach might be a viable alternative with regards to seating but Do Compare like with like.
The OP has a high top with kitchen wardrobe, Fridge and Parking Heater etc: and is asking about the SE or Ocean, so if you are suggesting a Beach then do include the necessary additional equipment etc: such as kitchen pod, water carriers and some form of awning so that you can cook when the rain is horizontal and blowing a gale if you go for a Slidepod or demountable camping kitchen. Also the more limited Leisure power supply available unless you make the relevant adaptions, also the Fridge and Parking Heater all of which are standard on the SE or Ocean but not on the Beach.
The Beach is an excellent vehicle but not comparable to the SE/Ocean without some significant additional expenditure.

 

[The Mighty Pauls]

Hey there everyone!

Can't believe the responses here - thanks so much for all your input... So looks like I've decided then!!

T6 Ocean (we want to have the kit already in the van)
150 PS DSG
Look for a Low Mileage Second Hand Version
Fifth Seat Addition - Therefore No 4Motion!

That was simple - now just need the colour.......!

Quick additional Question - in terms of waterproofness (is that even a word?) has anyone had much experience of South West Hooleys mixed with horizontal rain? Do we need additional protection?

Also, there has been a bot of chat about corrosion in the front of the pop up - is this still a problem on more modern vans?

All the best and thanks again to everyone!

 

[WelshGas]

Hello to all you lovely people...

So, we have decide to take the plunge and go for a Cali - but would love a little bit of advice.

We have had T4s for years and currently have a high top 2.5tdi, which we love (plenty of power/relatively economical etc).

We essentially need to decide between a cheaper T5 SE (but with low miles) and a T6 Ocean - so here are my specific questions:

1 - Fifth Seat
As this will be our only vehicle, it's imperative that we have a fifth seat (although will only need occasionally when ferrying Granny around!)

When I spoke to the guy at VW in Bristol, he said that you can't replace the passenger seat in the T6 with a double seat (airbags etc?), but you can get one to fit in the rear rail. Is this the case with the SE? The replacement double front seat I have seen in other conversions would be my preference - how easy is it to get either option as an aftermarket item and for how much?

2 - Engines
As I mentioned - have been used to a practically trouble free 2.5 tdi in my T4 for many years - bombproof.

I have heard good things about the 180ps BiTurbo in the SE - but is the 150 in the T6 noticeably different? I have also read something about 10/11 180s having issues and engine replacements needed. Is there a particular plate to go for/avoid?


3 - Manual or DSG?
Love the idea of the T6 - but economy is important. I reckon my T4 gets somewhere in the late 30s on a run, but does struggle in the odd wet field. Is the 4 Motion thirstier? Does it present more issues down the line in terms of parts/servicing?


4 - 4 Motion?
I've always had manuals and am from the slightly old school of thought where I love the 'control' and driving experience of self shifting. But, that said - perhaps I need to stop being such an idiot!

I have read a lot on your fantastic forums about the benefits and smooth operation of the DSG, but in real world terms - how does it affect fuel economy and also servicing/parts?

5 - Vehicle Tax
I was really shocked when I priced up an 18 plate pre registered Ocean to then be told that the tax was going to be £1000 per year for first five years... Is my understanding correct that if I found a delivery mileage 17 or 67 plate, this wouldn't be the case?

I would really appreciate any thoughts you guys have on any of these questions. Having had a good look around your forums - everyone seems incredibly nice.

All the very best

If you require a 5th Seat then the 4Motion is out of consideration I’m afraid, as you will exceed the maximum vehicle weight.
Removable 5th Seats are available on this site and eBay. Expensive if ordered from VW unless on a New build vehicle.
You can fit a 2 person Front Passenger Seat, with a swivel is possible, but without modification it can be uncomfortable, in the SE or Ocean, not the 4Motion, but will have to disable the passenger air bags.
If you want the full camping interior then you are restricted to the SE or Ocean.
The SE 140 engine is fuel efficient, a little less with the DSG and the 180 more so. Avoid the 2010/11 180’s as they have a problem with oil consumption. Well some do at about 60,000 miles.
The T6 Ocean 150 is more fuel efficient but has the addition of Adblue and the associated complexity of the Euro 6 Emissions equipment as does the 204.
The DSG box, according to posts, or lack of, on this Forum and others has no more problems than the Manual, but remember the Manual does have the DMF, dual mas flywheel, and clutch which will wear and require replacement.
Since April 1st 2018 the T6 Ocean has an additional Road Tax payment for the 1st 5 years, but you can purchase extended factory warranty and service package which is very good valuable IF they are still available. CHECK with Dealer.

As has been mentioned the California Beach can Seat upto 7 BUT lacks the standard camping facilities of the SE or Ocean so this and suitable substitutes, must be factored into your decision.

 

[WelshGas]

Hey there everyone!

Can't believe the responses here - thanks so much for all your input... So looks like I've decided then!!

T6 Ocean (we want to have the kit already in the van)
150 PS DSG
Look for a Low Mileage Second Hand Version
Fifth Seat Addition - Therefore No 4Motion!

That was simple - now just need the colour.......!

Quick additional Question - in terms of waterproofness (is that even a word?) has anyone had much experience of South West Hooleys mixed with horizontal rain? Do we need additional protection?

Also, there has been a bot of chat about corrosion in the front of the pop up - is this still a problem on more modern vans?

All the best and thanks again to everyone!

You don’t need additional protection for the roof bellows as long as you can dry it properly at home. Put the roof up on the drive.
The Galvanic Corrosion On the Roof Section is supposed to have been fixed MY 2015 onwards.
The same on the edge of the Elevating section, under the steel/rubber seal not so it seems.

 

[Meoncoast]

Quick additional Question - in terms of waterproofness (is that even a word?) has anyone had much experience of South West Hooleys mixed with horizontal rain? Do we need additional protection?

We have had roof up I all weathers on both T5 and T6 without extra top covers. Water coming through not and issue and "canvas" dries quickly. I found the T6 material appears to dry quicker.

Like said above you need to dry it out, like you would a tent to prevent mould.

 

[Amarillo]

We have a roof topper. With practice it takes little time to install, and we only use it in wet or cold weather. It reduces draughts and keeps the roof canvass nice and dry. It folds down well and stows with the chairs in the tailgate bag.

It's not essential but probably on my top 5 accessory list when the essentials like coffee/tea mugs are excluded.


Follow my blog: www.au-revoir.eu

 

[The Mighty Pauls]

Thanks so much for this everyone!!

To put a slight spanner in the works, I have found a low mileage (25k) SE - with the 180ps engine and DSG. One Owner, FSH Including Cambelt etc. It says Jan 2012 - so assuming it is free of 10/11 Oil issues??

Would save me £15-20k off the new Ocean price, but won't be covered by warranties etc... Thoughts anyone?

Very much appreciated.....

 

[WelshGas]

Thanks so much for this everyone!!

To put a slight spanner in the works, I have found a low mileage (25k) SE - with the 180ps engine and DSG. One Owner, FSH Including Cambelt etc. It says Jan 2012 - so assuming it is free of 10/11 Oil issues??

Would save me £15-20k off the new Ocean price, but won't be covered by warranties etc... Thoughts anyone?

Very much appreciated.....

It could be ok, but date of registration is not the same as date of manufacture.

Are you prepared to gamble and put aside £8000 for a possible engine replacement in 35,000 miles.
If yes, they do go well, then you could negotiate a good price reduction in lieu and keep fingers crossed.

 

[2into1]

I'm trying to work out the price of the 2012 you are evaluating......
A 'new' Ocean must be £55k minimum so your £15-20k saving for your early 2012 must be listed at £35k to £40k??
I'd go for a later one (to be clearer of the oil issues) and not be looking at such low mileage examples. Welshgas is usually the first to say that little use causes more problems than the proper use intended for these commercial vehicles.

 

[WelshGas]

Thanks so much for this everyone!!

To put a slight spanner in the works, I have found a low mileage (25k) SE - with the 180ps engine and DSG. One Owner, FSH Including Cambelt etc. It says Jan 2012 - so assuming it is free of 10/11 Oil issues??

Would save me £15-20k off the new Ocean price, but won't be covered by warranties etc... Thoughts anyone?

Very much appreciated.....

As the post above. 25,000 miles in 6 yrs, about 4,000/year so probably laid up for 6 months each year or used for very short trips. These vehicles are based on commercial vehicles so 10-15,000/year means an easy life but used. They don't like sitting around for long periods of time.

 

[The Mighty Pauls]

Hi everybody - apologies for the radio silence!! Have been deep in Cali-Browsing!

Quick question about the 2010/11 180 engines on the SE's.

The problems that have been discussed here regarding high oil use etc - is this a universal problem with all these engines manufactured during this time? Or is it an occasional issue. The reason i ask is that a dealer recently suggested that off the x thousand vehicles made during that period an incredibly small number have suffered.

I would therefore be interested to know if there are 180s out there which are completely fine.

All advice very much appreciated and gratefully received.

 

[2into1]

It's far from universal (at least so far) but the numbers involved (x) the cost of rectification is the consideration. Only you can decide what risk you are happy with, but you need to weigh up that risk vs a 140 or later 180.

 

[AndyFromTheBrac]

Hi everybody - apologies for the radio silence!! Have been deep in Cali-Browsing!

Quick question about the 2010/11 180 engines on the SE's.

The problems that have been discussed here regarding high oil use etc - is this a universal problem with all these engines manufactured during this time? Or is it an occasional issue. The reason i ask is that a dealer recently suggested that off the x thousand vehicles made during that period an incredibly small number have suffered.

I would therefore be interested to know if there are 180s out there which are completely fine.

All advice very much appreciated and gratefully received.

It’s a tiny proportion. My dealer stated less than 5% are known to be affected and the independent I go to for advice has said they’ve heard of it, but seen nothing.

It’s a risk for sure, but there are specialist engine rebuild companies out there which will sort the problem for around £2.5k + EGR valve revision if needed. £8k for an engine on a 7 or 8 year old vehicle is a lot, but then some folk would happily pay over £200 for a couple of Brandrup pockets.
I was originally panicked with this talk, but having done my research I’m happy to carry on regardless (no intention of selling anyway). I’ve had the EGR valve changed earlier on and am now at around 64k on a 2011. I also had oil consumption checks carried out.

All forums tend to be a lot of “thinking of buying/look at my new... thing” and then quite a bit of “this broke, I’m furious!/ need advice” Here it is a bit different, as there is also a huge amount of useful info too, but that forum adage still applies. Take with a pinch of salt, but keep your eyes wide open. I do think the demographic of this forum is very risk-averse, but I also sympathise greatly with those that have had the problem.


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[sapto]

Sounds great @TAKETHEPLUNGE!
I hope you find a Cali which suits your needs - whatever spec!
Everything said above! Keep my fingers crossed and warm welcome!

 

[The Mighty Pauls]

Thanks so much to both Andy and 2 into 1 - certainly food for thought!

Just one more quick question regarding SEs - I haven;t driven the 180 or 140, but I have driven the 150 Ocean. Would I be right in thinking that (crudely speaking), the 140 matches the later 150 in power/pickup and the 180 broadly matches the 204?

Much appreciated again.

 

[Ryemslie]

Thanks so much to both Andy and 2 into 1 - certainly food for thought!

Just one more quick question regarding SEs - I haven;t driven the 180 or 140, but I have driven the 150 Ocean. Would I be right in thinking that (crudely speaking), the 140 matches the later 150 in power/pickup and the 180 broadly matches the 204?

Much appreciated again.

Crudely speaking yes. We have a 140 se & it is more than adequate. We get around 34mpg on a long haul & 32with a mix of long & short. We went through the same as you. Initially started looking at 180 4motions then stretched the budget to get a newer euro 6 bu tin the end we felt that for our first cali the sensible money was in an earlier/well cared for euro 5 140 with good spec.

 

[WelshGas]

Thanks so much to both Andy and 2 into 1 - certainly food for thought!

Just one more quick question regarding SEs - I haven;t driven the 180 or 140, but I have driven the 150 Ocean. Would I be right in thinking that (crudely speaking), the 140 matches the later 150 in power/pickup and the 180 broadly matches the 204?

Much appreciated again.

Not far off. Although some will disagree.

 

[kaf2546]

Hey there everyone!

Can't believe the responses here - thanks so much for all your input... So looks like I've decided then!!

T6 Ocean (we want to have the kit already in the van)
150 PS DSG
Look for a Low Mileage Second Hand Version
Fifth Seat Addition - Therefore No 4Motion!

That was simple - now just need the colour.......!

Quick additional Question - in terms of waterproofness (is that even a word?) has anyone had much experience of South West Hooleys mixed with horizontal rain? Do we need additional protection?

Also, there has been a bot of chat about corrosion in the front of the pop up - is this still a problem on more modern vans?

All the best and thanks again to everyone!

Re waterproofness, we have had T5 and T6 and no issues although if you placed something in contact some moisture may wick through. We have found this negligible in the T6 in driving west coast rain Scotland (35-40mph). One night a small amount had come through the vent at top and was easily wiped off the inner metal sill below. Positioning narrow end into the wind avoided it altogether. We use all Winter as low as minus 8 in Jan/Feb and felt the Brandrup inner liner a huge benefit as keeps in heat and makes it a bit darker. Design seems to avoid all condensation but if very cold we have had heater on 1 most of night (hardly uses any fuel). The warmer air seems to let all moisture escape through the tent. We prefer tent up whenever possible to let van breath and if wet outside it dries very quickly even in Winter, and apparently faster than our T5. A quick wipe with a microfibre towel aids the drying and in Winter the van heater also seems to help the drying process. We have even turned the van into drying room by putting heater on max and opening a couple tent vents, amazing!