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Loss of mains power to fridge/ leisure batteries

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plewsgra

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Hi - I am new to the forum so apologies if I am not using it correctly. I have owner a Cali for 18 months from new and have problems with my electrical power supply. What happens is I hook up to the mains and all is well. But often we will go out for the day and when we get back the control panel shows it is running off the batteries. The 230V supply still works but the fridge is running off (and flattening) the batteries. By trial and error I found if I flip the isolator switch then put it back on the problem is fixed. These seems to only happen on a hot day. I reported this to the VW Van Centre and they changed the fridge (?). This didn't fix the problem. The problem then got worse and I wasn't able to rectify the matter by flipping the isolator/trip switch. The Cali went back to the Van Centre and they replaced a charger unit. This seemed to work until the next hot day then back to the original problem!! I am losing faith in the Van Centre and can't find anyone else on the forum experiencing a similar porblem. Can anyone please advise. Thanks - Graham
 
I have the same.

It went to SMG who replaced both charger and control panel. It all worked well for a few days then reverted back to the problem that you describe. Plug into mains, it shows hook-up, leave it for a few hours, the mains ceases to charge the batteries and if the fridge is on and the weather warm then the batteries quickly drain.

Mine was going back last Monday. Guess what? The weather went cooler and now everything works perfectly.

My only advice is to do what I do if a hook-up and Fridge running is essential. Every few hours, disconnect then reconnect. it at least keeps everything going.
 
Thanks for your help on this. I can limp along in the way you suggest but this problem has happened twice in 18 months. The second time was because the fault got worse and it stopped charging the batteries altogether...I'm concerned this might keep happening; even when out of warranty. Guess I'd better go back to VW! It least I now know I am not alone!
 
Sounds as if this could be a heat problem. Maybe the temperature around the charger is too high and a thermal cutout operating. I don't have my California yet, but is there an inspection panel to where the charger is positioned. If so possibly leaving it open might help! Just a suggestion.
 
WelshGas said:
Sounds as if this could be a heat problem. Maybe the temperature around the charger is too high and a thermal cutout operating. I don't have my California yet, but is there an inspection panel to where the charger is positioned. If so possibly leaving it open might help! Just a suggestion.
That sounds like a good theory. I notice some chargers are mounted under the fridge and some are mounted above the rear leisure battery. Maybe this is the reduce the heat problem.
 
WelshGas said:
Sounds as if this could be a heat problem. Maybe the temperature around the charger is too high and a thermal cutout operating. I don't have my California yet, but is there an inspection panel to where the charger is positioned. If so possibly leaving it open might help! Just a suggestion.

I am a total mechanical numbnut. I write history books and lecture on why wars start, not why vans stop. However even my mechanically febrile brain has wondered if there is a thermal cutout somewhere.

It always seemed to happen when the battery was around 80% charged. I first noticed it when we had a heatwave and temperature outside was around 30 degrees but the temperature inside a stationary metal van was a lot more with the added complication of a fridge working overtime. Now it's very much cooler suddenly the hook-up stays charging.

There is an inspection panel, in the cupboard by the fridge, leaving everything open including the cupboard door and with the cupboard totally emptied achieves bugger all, sadly.

To me it is glaringly obvious that it is a heat-related problem but there again I am so mechanically inept that I once floated a spirit level on my home-installed pond to see if it was level :oops: :oops: :oops:
 
Ok, I had a similar problem, once in Italy and once in Spain. Guess what... It was very hot. By unplugging and plugging back in, the charge indicator would come back on. No problem once night fell (temperature dropped) and the charge indicator stayed on all night
So sounds,like,heat was also my problem.
Ok, so a thermal cut-out was mentioned. I don't think this is the problem. The reason is that once I unplugged and plugged back in, I was always ok for an hour or so. A thermal cutout would prevent charging under hot conditions? If so then unplugging and plugging,back in wouldn't reset it. The heat would still be present in the sensor thus preventing charging again.
I looked into this problem some,time,back and didn't quite find the problem but I did get closer. It appears to be something to do with the charge on the batteries - if the voltage on batteries falls below a particular point then the on board charger doesn't work. I tried running the vehicle to charge the batteries, then came back to site, plugged in and all was fine.
What I haven't yet had time to work out is why. Until I do, I won't have the answer. When heat increases, electrical resistance goes down (electron mobility increase blah blah blah...) - the charger works on the principle which uses a linear bar (resistive) across which a number of points connected along the bar provide a voltage drop. Since this drop is small, it stands to reason that this may become affected by heat and as such affect the charging process. I plan to study this carefully and hopefully put together a technical post.
In the meantime, I would tend to agree that temperature seems to be the driving factor.
Watch this space!!
 
A thermal cutout could still be the cause.
A working charger gradually heats up until the cutout is tripped - Charger switches Off and remains Off and gradually cools to ambient temperature, but does not switch on charging.
Unplug charger - resets charger and allows charging until temperature trips thermal cutout.

High ambient temperature allows thermal cutout temperature to be reached quickly.

Lower starting voltage on Batteries = Higher charging current = ??? Higher heat generation in charger thus reaching trigger temperature, which would explain why a charged battery, requiring a lower charging rate does not cause the charger to trigger cutout.

Could this be an explanation?

When you ran the engine you would charge the battery and when reconnecting the mains the battery would require a lesser charge - less heat production by charger and so less likely to reach thermal cutout trigger?
 
It could be, however, there is a small time taken for the cutout to cool down.
When the mains plug symbol is shown then my understanding is that the charger is functioning and when it's not shown it has stopped.
I have unplugged and plugged back in within two seconds which is why I think that the cut out might not have time to cool down. It would only reset if it's mass temperature has time to reduce to below set point.
I agree that higher charging current flows initially hence greater heat build up. I think ambient temp may tip it over. I know the charge controller is located beneath the fridge but not sure about the charger unit itself...

Charge controller .....

image.jpg
 
Anyone with a 2014 onwards Cali, VW in their infinite wisdom have moved the mains hook up battery charger from the original place (under the sink). It's now underneath the wardrobe, there is a little door that you need to open with a screw driver (or similar) to get to it.

We were having problems getting our hook up to connect from the mains - our VW dealer hadn't been informed that VW had moved the charger - it was a team effort, but we found it after searching high and low! The Master Tech plugged the kettle lead thingy in and - ta-da!!!! Power!!!!

Sarah x.
 
I have the same. Only in hot weather, only when fridge is on.
This is definitively thermal protection of the charging unit.
Andrzej
 
calicasas said:
Ok, I had a similar problem, once in Italy and once in Spain. Guess what... It was very hot. By unplugging and plugging back in, the charge indicator would come back on. No problem once night fell (temperature dropped) and the charge indicator stayed on all night
So sounds,like,heat was also my problem.
Ok, so a thermal cut-out was mentioned. I don't think this is the problem. The reason is that once I unplugged and plugged back in, I was always ok for an hour or so. A thermal cutout would prevent charging under hot conditions? If so then unplugging and plugging,back in wouldn't reset it. The heat would still be present in the sensor thus preventing charging again.


This all makes sense to me.

When I first pinned it down to some form of cut-off (and not blaming the fridge) I watched it almost by minute. As soon as I saw the hook up symbol disappear I would disconnect and reconnect, see it appear, then go off almost instantly.

In normal circumstances though there would probably be a good deal of time between it cutting off and being reconnected. For example, reconnect first thing in the morning, go out for the day, have a look at the evening , mutter something ever so profane and unladylike when seeing "battery 60%" instead of a hook up symbol, disconnect and reconnect, see it all working nicely, go and say 50 hail mary's for swearing :eek:
 
So...as the person that posed the original question it is helpful to see I am not alone and the suggestions are most helpful. It sounds also like there isn't a solution apart from keeping an eye on the indicator and islolating and reconnecting when this fault occurs...or has anyone found a solution that I'm not aware of? I wonder if VW are aware? Must be a nightmare for people living in hot counties! I'm also concerned that the fault could get worse as a month or so ago I couldn't get the van back to mains charging even when I isolated and reconnected the power (had to have a new charger fitted). Thanks to everyone for the helpful comments and support so far.
 
Probably worth measuring the temperature in the area of the Charger. Should be able to provide some form of ventilation to keep it within its preferred temperature range. Hot air rises so a vent on top of the compartment and a similar one at the base might do as a passive convection system or an active system using a computer 12v fan? :cool
 
Good idea...think I will try that. You would think VW would have thought of and fixed this. Guess they must be aware? Thanks again.
 
I have a similar-ish problem with my 2013 T5 SE.

For a year, the leisure batteries charged perfectly from the alternator and all was well.

Following a service to the roof an a reseating of the lining and control panel, no charge goes from the alternator to the leisure batteries. The van starts and I have no electrical problems running it as a vehicle but I now have to charge the leisure batteries from the hook-up.

My main dealer reports "all is fine according to our testing rig" and says just charge the batteries.

However, this is making me grumpy because I can't see why I have to use a hook-up when the manual says that the alternator will charge the batteries.

Any ideas please?

Thank you.
 
JohnBackhouse said:
I have a similar-ish problem with my 2013 T5 SE.

For a year, the leisure batteries charged perfectly from the alternator and all was well.

Following a service to the roof an a reseating of the lining and control panel, no charge goes from the alternator to the leisure batteries. The van starts and I have no electrical problems running it as a vehicle but I now have to charge the leisure batteries from the hook-up.

My main dealer reports "all is fine according to our testing rig" and says just charge the batteries.

However, this is making me grumpy because I can't see why I have to use a hook-up when the manual says that the alternator will charge the batteries.

Any ideas please?

Thank you.


I would find another dealer or talk to VW direct
 
The Leisure batteries should be charged when the vehicle is running, end of.

No negotiation, no flannel, no waffle, no "our test rig etc", if the alternator does not charge the leisure batteries something needs fixing. If the dealer will not fix it then talk to VW for them to find a dealer who will.
 
Andy & GrannyGoesCamping, thank you so much for the reassurance. I KNEW it had to be so and, et's face it, not only is it in the manual but a 180A alternator could almost power my ruddy house never mind the van and a bit of a fridge.

Andy thanks for the suggestion which I will take up. I am going to go to the dealer in London because they do all the Campervantastic vans and I work nearby quite often.

Granny - love the website and now I am jealous of your time off. We had two weeks in Holland and France and really did NOT want to come home. 42 litre wine cooler - like it.

Cheers all. VW watch out!
 
If leisure batteries are low alternator will not charge rhem. VW recomend mains charging regularly to keep them in good condition
 
My California has this fault... it's a 2009 T5.
I was holidaying in Corsica and the weather was very hot - late 20 - 30 degrees Centigrade.
Should I replace the leisure battery now?
 

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