Newbie looking for used California

[quilkin]

Hi, I decided to buy a camper a few months ago. My intended use is taking my bike across to Europe , camping a few days while I explore the area, then moving on, for 3-4 weeks at a time. Occasionally the van will be used by my daughter & boyfriend with a young child.
Originally I wanted a VW T2 (much more character) but viewed a few and decided too risky. So more recently been looking at T5 conversions. I think I want a pop-top (more for head height than for sleeping space) and discovered that non-VW converted tops aren't particularly reliable (can be noisy?), original VW ones are the best (is this true?). Also I would really like aircon. So it seems a Cali is the answer, although the prices are more than my original budget.
Currently on offer near me are two possibilities; one a 2012 model with 71k miles, one a 2008 with 58k miles (which appears genuine from the MOT website)::
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Volkswagen-T5-California-camper-campervan-2012/142540175320
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VW-T5-California/192347703152
The newer one is over my budget but I could strike lucky. Apart from it's age, the older vehicle looks better value. So what I'm asking (I think) is, what design changes would there be between these models which might influence a decision?

 

[MrP]

Quick answer...
2012 isn't an original california, is a conversion with California interior fitted.
Older one is an import and isn't UK spec. It has 1.9tdi not 2.5 and doesn't have heated seats, not sure what else is different.

I am sure they are both lovely. However, looking at the classifieds on this forum at the moment there are three on here same price range and not that far from Cornwall that are genuine UK vans and genuine Californias...

 

[RodCouncil]

For the right Cali, you travel

 

[CampervanTime]

Quick answer...
2012 isn't an original california, is a conversion with California interior fitted.
Older one is an import and isn't UK spec. It has 1.9tdi not 2.5 and doesn't have heated seats, not sure what else is different.

I am sure they are both lovely. However, looking at the classifieds on this forum at the moment there are three on here same price range and not that far from Cornwall that are genuine UK vans and genuine Californias...

How can you tell the 2012 one isn’t genuine?

 

[CampervanTime]

How can you tell the 2012 one isn’t genuine?

Ignore me!,, it’s in the advert

 

[larrylamb]

.

 

[quilkin]

Quick answer...
2012 isn't an original california, is a conversion with California interior fitted.
Older one is an import and isn't UK spec. It has 1.9tdi not 2.5 and doesn't have heated seats, not sure what else is different.

I am sure they are both lovely. However, looking at the classifieds on this forum at the moment there are three on here same price range and not that far from Cornwall that are genuine UK vans and genuine Californias...

Thanks MrP. I've viewed this van now and it's in perfect condition, one owner from new.
I found two others, the nearest was already sold. Another one 300 miles away, but older/more miles/more owners/slightly higher price.
I guess the 1.9tdi on my local one would make it less easy to sell later, but that may enable me to get the asking price down. It doesn't have heated seats but does have other extras which I value more. So it comes down to the engine. I'm not concerned about the lower power, but doing some research it seems fuel efficiency might be tad better. So at the moment it's only the doubt about resale value that's stopping me.

 

[CALI FATE]

Hi Quilkin - its all about the research and the learning when buying a California - even more so when contemplating a non-new van - there is lots to learn, and lots to know. Fortunately most of it is in this forum somewhere, but keep asking questions and you will get there - its all fun

 

[B J G]

Basically you are buying a VW van which is the part that age will have the most financial implications during ownership. To reduce the risk get a professional mechanical/body inspection by the AA, RAC or another inspector. The money spent could save thousands in future.
You can easily do the camper bits yourself.
Current anti Diesel policies seem to be targeting pre Euro 4 spec (2006) vehicles but that will probably move up to Euro 5 in time (2009). Just something to bear in mind if looking for long term ownership.

Good fortune.

 

[quilkin]

Thanks for all help so far. I'm definitely willing to travel to find the right one, and of course I'll get a AA/RAC check done whatever I buy.
But looking back at the original two vans I posted about (and others I may find in the future with similar considerations), I'm still struggling with two questions. For reliability and resale value, if I was buying a 5-7 year old model, say, what difference in price should I expect for
(a) a factory-built vs. a conversion
(b) a 1.9TDI vs a 2.5 TDI?

 

[quilkin]

p.s. (can't seem to edit above post)
By 'conversion' I mean one done with all genuine VW parts, like this one

 

[Lloydfred]

I wouldn't touch a fake Cali as one of the major plus points is, a genuine Cali was built by VW on their product line. In order to transfer and create a look a like you would need a donor vehicle. The residual value of a Cali, probably means the donor was a right off. This is probably the case due to not being able to get hold of the sliding seat mechanism.

 

[B J G]

Thanks for all help so far. I'm definitely willing to travel to find the right one, and of course I'll get a AA/RAC check done whatever I buy.
But looking back at the original two vans I posted about (and others I may find in the future with similar considerations), I'm still struggling with two questions. For reliability and resale value, if I was buying a 5-7 year old model, say, what difference in price should I expect for
(a) a factory-built vs. a conversion
(b) a 1.9TDI vs a 2.5 TDI?

It's all about condition when getting into older vehicles.
Conversions are normally based on used commercial vans which have seen one life prior to conversion.
I doubt if anyone can give a price comparison due to there being so many factors to consider relating to specification. If I knew future resale prices I'd buy up lots of bargains for a profit later. So no help there.

Gut feel is a good guide and if possible find someone to accompany you to give some unbiased guidance. The good ones sell quickly so you need to be pretty active to find the best.

 

[quilkin]

A little postscript to this thread I started.
I decided to give a Cali a proper try by hiring one in Spain for 6 days (5 nights) . Had wonderful weather mid-November - no clouds to be seen.
Anyway as a result I've decided against buying a Cali, I want something larger. Main reason is I couldn't get on with making up and undoing the rock'n'roll bed every night (I did try the upstairs bed as well but that didn't suit.) I also felt that, apart from the bed, I don't know how this is sold as a four-person van. It felt small with just me! Might be OK in bright summer weather with long days, when you can have an full drive-away awning to increase space, but four in that van in rainy weather would be a nightmare.
Apart from the bed / size issue, I found some things about the design very annoying ) for such a well-respected product):
- all the sliding doors we fiddly to open & close . Would prefer push-button hinged doors I have seen in other vans.
- the window blinds were stiff, didn't open & close easily at all (again, compared with blinds I've tried in other vans)
- the diesel heater was brilliant, but why oh why is the controller above the front window? Having to get out of bed at 2am to turn it on or adjust it is not good. Also, since the fridge control is on the same little unit, once I managed to turn off the fridge in the middle of the night while trying to adjust the heater. Didn't discover until breakfast time, resulting in spoilt food. The heater control should be near the bed!
Just my 2p worth....
Thanks for all your help on this forum though.

 

[RodCouncil]

Agreed on your point's, but you can use the remote Heater control, it's a camper tho, not a motorhome. If we had space and didn't care about the environment (Cali is our only vehicle because we live in a civilized city and don't drive to work) I'd have a new Westy Sven Hedin so i could hit the trails then shower up afterwards, but we need to use ir as a weekend bus and normal car and this is where the Cali shines.

Still working in Frida tho, I could handle a 6m van as our only vehicle but while we have a baby it's a Cali for us, just love driving bit too, so agile and an amazing package. All of the things you've said are quite easily summounted with practice too.

 

[Ocean Spirit]

quilkin,
Horses for courses indeed.
I understand all the things you have commented on.
But the California has a niche and outside of that niche is where your expectations from a cali as an out and out way of camping are.
That said spain for 5 nights is more than doable for a lot of people in a Cali.
One of the attractions of a Cali is it's ability to 'fit like a car' into everyday life which brings some of the compromises you mention. I know you know that but my point is simply that when 'something larger' is more desirable than 'fitting like a car' little more needs to be said, a California will not do.
Good luck with your hunt for a great white, a wise move to hire a Cali first then! at least you gave it a go.

 

[RodCouncil]

quilkin,
Horses for courses indeed.
I understand all the things you have commented on.
But the California has a niche and outside of that niche is where your expectations from a cali as an out and out way of camping are.
That said spain for 5 nights is more than doable for a lot of people in a Cali.
One of the attractions of a Cali is it's ability to 'fit like a car' into everyday life which brings some of the compromises you mention. I know you know that but my point is simply that when 'something larger' is more desirable than 'fitting like a car' little more needs to be said, a California will not do.
Good luck with your hunt for a great white, a wise move to hire a Cali first then at least you gave it a go.

Doesn't need to be a great white, loads of vans in the sub 6m class based on Ducatos, VW Crafter, Merc etc so you can have your cake and eat it with more facilities and pass the Tesco test, but Calis shine when they are used for everything, imo anyway.

 

[Ocean Spirit]

Sorry for my poor understanding of the description of a great white

 

[RodCouncil]

Sorry for my poor understanding of the description of a great white

Great Whites = no more discerning than caravans

 

[Bellcrew]

Doesn't need to be a great white, loads of vans in the sub 6m class based on Ducatos, VW Crafter, Merc etc so you can have your cake and eat it with more facilities and pass the Tesco test, but Calis shine when they are used for everything, imo anyway.

And yet all those vehicles have sliding doors, I have yet to live in any house/vehicle that the heating can be controlled from the bed. If the upper bed is not viable for a person then the Cali does become small, with it available and made up/raised the cali has more usable space than most biggish whites and can still fit under a 2 m barrier.
Still a good idea to hire before purchase, I hope the OP has fun trying the alternatives.