Buy all your VW California Accessories at the Club Shop Visit Shop

  • Next Club Meet:
    Slimbridge in Gloucestershire on 17th-19th May (last few pitches remaining) More Details Here

Oil Comsumption / Engine Problems with 2010/2011 Cali's

WelshGas

WelshGas

Retired after 42 yrs and enjoying Life.
Top Poster
Lifetime VIP Member
Messages
12,013
Location
Cowbridge
Vehicle
T5 SE 180 4Motion
And some people seem to need to sleep on a single bed in their kitchen just like they do at home!

Actually joking aside, having had both versions they are both fine if you can ignore the granite mattress.

"a van that in the depths of winter is just that, a van". An SE in the depths of winter is also just a van but with less space!

You've got me on the last one WG. If Mrs Borris decides to take much more stuff we'll have to avoid hills altogether. :headbang
I think you should reread my Post 449, where I was pointing out that those who tarred ALL 180s the same, as having an oil consumption problem are wrong and being disingenuous to those owners who have not had this problem and probably never will. No different to saying all 150s are underpowered and need a remap or all Beach’s are just a Van.
With full knowledge of possible problems and a vehicle that has been properly serviced and at a price that was acceptable I would be more than happy to purchase and replace the engine and ancillary equipment as @AlanC has done.
 
WelshGas

WelshGas

Retired after 42 yrs and enjoying Life.
Top Poster
Lifetime VIP Member
Messages
12,013
Location
Cowbridge
Vehicle
T5 SE 180 4Motion
And some people seem to need to sleep on a single bed in their kitchen just like they do at home!

Actually joking aside, having had both versions they are both fine if you can ignore the granite mattress.

"a van that in the depths of winter is just that, a van". An SE in the depths of winter is also just a van but with less space!

You've got me on the last one WG. If Mrs Borris decides to take much more stuff we'll have to avoid hills altogether. :headbang
I suggest a visit to Specsavers and reread my Post 449.
 
Borris

Borris

Top Poster
VIP Member
Messages
2,568
Location
Canterbury
Vehicle
T6 Beach 150
I think you should reread my Post 449, where I was pointing out that those who tarred ALL 180s the same, as having an oil consumption problem are wrong and being disingenuous to those owners who have not had this problem and probably never will. No different to saying all 150s are underpowered and need a remap or all Beach’s are just a Van.
With full knowledge of possible problems and a vehicle that has been properly serviced and at a price that was acceptable I would be more than happy to purchase and replace the engine and ancillary equipment as @AlanC has done.
Actually I completely agree with your post 449. I've also owned an SE 180dsg 4motion. Splendid vehicle. If it wasn't for Mrs Borris's refusal to drive our family Beach which was purchased as a second car, we'd still have it now. In the end I had to buy her another car and the SE ended up not getting used as much as we had intended so it had to go.

Forgive me for deliberately misinterpreting your post purely for amusement. We haven't had the old Beach verses Ocean thing for a while and I couldn't resist the opportunity. :Iamsorry
 
Last edited:
Rubberdubber

Rubberdubber

Messages
9
Location
In ma crib.
Vehicle
T5 SE 180 4Motion
Oh happy day, so i have a CFCA 180 BiTdi, 2014 model. Just found all this stuff but at 12,000 miles I have no issues at all as yet. I am due a service so plan to speak to my VW Dealer and see what they say but I have no symptoms, sop no real complaint, so I doubt they will do anything straight away. The trouble is I don't want to wait and see either because it's really too late by then. My EGR is a suffix "C" so in the range but maybe better than some. I wondered bout getting the oil analysed before the service? any advice or suggestions welcome :)
 
WelshGas

WelshGas

Retired after 42 yrs and enjoying Life.
Top Poster
Lifetime VIP Member
Messages
12,013
Location
Cowbridge
Vehicle
T5 SE 180 4Motion
Oh happy day, so i have a CFCA 180 BiTdi, 2014 model. Just found all this stuff but at 12,000 miles I have no issues at all as yet. I am due a service so plan to speak to my VW Dealer and see what they say but I have no symptoms, sop no real complaint, so I doubt they will do anything straight away. The trouble is I don't want to wait and see either because it's really too late by then. My EGR is a suffix "C" so in the range but maybe better than some. I wondered bout getting the oil analysed before the service? any advice or suggestions welcome :)
I too have the same engine. Just passing 80,000 miles. Oil consumption has been 1L in first year over 20,000 miles, 750 mls in year 2, 20,000 to 40,000 miles, and then 500 mls/ 20,000 miles / year for the last 2 years.
At the rate you are clocking up the miles you have another 16 years to get to the same milage.
 
2into1

2into1

Née T4WFA. Now running 2017 150 DSG Ocean
Lifetime VIP Member
Messages
2,610
Location
Glossop
Vehicle
T6 Ocean 150
Oh happy day, so i have a CFCA 180 BiTdi, 2014 model. Just found all this stuff but at 12,000 miles I have no issues at all as yet. I am due a service so plan to speak to my VW Dealer and see what they say but I have no symptoms, sop no real complaint, so I doubt they will do anything straight away. The trouble is I don't want to wait and see either because it's really too late by then. My EGR is a suffix "C" so in the range but maybe better than some. I wondered bout getting the oil analysed before the service? any advice or suggestions welcome :)
Interesting dilemma.
My advice would be to change the egr valve to a D. Two reasons (or three) :
1) you'll add a big chuck of the cost to the resale value of the van. You'll be able to claim correctly that its had the /d since 12k miles.
2) any egr doesn't last forever. Although their failure is more mileage related than age related, your /c isn't new so it's wear to date can be offset (in your mind) against the cost of a new one.
The two above are facts and even shouldn't upset WelshGas.
3) fitting the /d might just save your engine and a £7k+ bill.
 
AlanC

AlanC

Traveling
Lifetime VIP Member
Messages
1,337
Location
Bristol
Vehicle
T5 SE 180
Oh happy day, so i have a CFCA 180 BiTdi, 2014 model. Just found all this stuff but at 12,000 miles I have no issues at all as yet. I am due a service so plan to speak to my VW Dealer and see what they say but I have no symptoms, sop no real complaint, so I doubt they will do anything straight away. The trouble is I don't want to wait and see either because it's really too late by then. My EGR is a suffix "C" so in the range but maybe better than some. I wondered bout getting the oil analysed before the service? any advice or suggestions welcome :)
As a sufferer of this problem, it usually kicks in at around 45-85K miles often very suddenly, at 12k miles you still have a way to go 'if' it is going to occur.

Having said that, the C suffix cooler is an updated one (now suffix D) but as @Vw guru has said in another thread, VW did not consider the issue finally fixed until 2015.

As there has been plenty of publicity about this issue, and given you have a 2014 engine and a very low annual mileage, I would just consider having the EGR Cooler changed to a D suffix one.
Will give you peace of mind if nothing else.

Alan
 
WelshGas

WelshGas

Retired after 42 yrs and enjoying Life.
Top Poster
Lifetime VIP Member
Messages
12,013
Location
Cowbridge
Vehicle
T5 SE 180 4Motion
Interesting dilemma.
My advice would be to change the egr valve to a D. Two reasons (or three) :
1) you'll add a big chuck of the cost to the resale value of the van. You'll be able to claim correctly that its had the /d since 12k miles.
2) any egr doesn't last forever. Although their failure is more mileage related than age related, your /c isn't new so it's wear to date can be offset (in your mind) against the cost of a new one.
The two above are facts and even shouldn't upset WelshGas.
3) fitting the /d might just save your engine and a £7k+ bill.
Agree, alternatively use it more.
Most of those affected seem to be 2010/2011 and relatively low annual milage.
 
Rubberdubber

Rubberdubber

Messages
9
Location
In ma crib.
Vehicle
T5 SE 180 4Motion
OK, thanks for the advice and I appreciate the reasoning behind it. It is due a service soon so I was thinking about talking to VW, see if they are willing to do anything, sounds unlikely but must be the first port of call. Other than that I was considering blanking the EGR and getting it coded out, I never really agreed with the things anyway and I have done this before with cars but I appreciate a lower mileage expensive van, resale value may be affected.
 
WelshGas

WelshGas

Retired after 42 yrs and enjoying Life.
Top Poster
Lifetime VIP Member
Messages
12,013
Location
Cowbridge
Vehicle
T5 SE 180 4Motion
OK, thanks for the advice and I appreciate the reasoning behind it. It is due a service soon so I was thinking about talking to VW, see if they are willing to do anything, sounds unlikely but must be the first port of call. Other than that I was considering blanking the EGR and getting it coded out, I never really agreed with the things anyway and I have done this before with cars but I appreciate a lower mileage expensive van, resale value may be affected.
Also be aware that the new MOT has a significant focus on Emission levels and the equipment fitted to control such emissions.
 
willwander

willwander

VIP Member
Messages
145
Location
UK
Vehicle
T5 SE 180
Agree, alternatively use it more.
Most of those affected seem to be 2010/2011 and relatively low annual milage.
Agree. Most assume very low mileage vehicles are somehow better, not always the case.
 
Rubberdubber

Rubberdubber

Messages
9
Location
In ma crib.
Vehicle
T5 SE 180 4Motion
Has anyone actually looked into what this part does and why it goes wrong?
To be a bit more specific; I notice VW refer to it as an 'EGR valve', no mention of cooler, yet it seems to be both. It's a much bigger part than most equivelant engine EGRs and the fact the oil filter screws on to it makes me wonder if it's also an oil cooler? If it is then are we 100% sure the metal particles are getting into the crankcase through the exhaust, could it be straight in to the oil system around the filter area? The other thing I wonder about is if metal fragments can come from the exhaust side of the cooler, why not the opposite side of the same surface, into the coolant?
Just trying to make sense of it all and imagining what the parts must look like, so forgive me if my lack of first hand knowledge has led me to bark up the wrong tree, stops me howling at the moon right enough, neighbours get terribly upset about that :)
 
V

Vw guru

Messages
364
Location
Uk
Vehicle
T6 Ocean 204
Has anyone actually looked into what this part does and why it goes wrong?
To be a bit more specific; I notice VW refer to it as an 'EGR valve', no mention of cooler, yet it seems to be both. It's a much bigger part than most equivelant engine EGRs and the fact the oil filter screws on to it makes me wonder if it's also an oil cooler? If it is then are we 100% sure the metal particles are getting into the crankcase through the exhaust, could it be straight in to the oil system around the filter area? The other thing I wonder about is if metal fragments can come from the exhaust side of the cooler, why not the opposite side of the same surface, into the coolant?
Just trying to make sense of it all and imagining what the parts must look like, so forgive me if my lack of first hand knowledge has led me to bark up the wrong tree, stops me howling at the moon right enough, neighbours get terribly upset about that :)

Hi The unit on the 180 engine is an egr cooler, oil filter housing and oil cooler all in one. The egr valve bolts onto the side of the cooler unit. The fault lies with the aluminum being broken down to aluminum oxide inside the egr cooler due to a chemical reaction with the exhaust gas. It then gets sucked into the engine via the air intake and sticks to the cylinder bores and piston rings increasing cylinder ware leading to oil bypassing the piston and getting burnt in the cylinder. The later coolers 2015 on have a plastic coating inside the egr cooler preventing the chemical reaction
 
Rubberdubber

Rubberdubber

Messages
9
Location
In ma crib.
Vehicle
T5 SE 180 4Motion
Hi, Thanks for that.
Do you know if the oil cooler is an addition for the 180 i.e not needed/fitted to lower hp engines? I have read of people fitting 140 EGRs but that seems to come with a need to add a separate oil cooler, usually with some kind of thermostatic control? Also, not sure I would trust the plastic coating, don't suppose we know yet how long or even if that will last, makes it a bit of a time bomb ans makes me think I would prefer a more complete repair.
 
V

Vw guru

Messages
364
Location
Uk
Vehicle
T6 Ocean 204
Hi, Thanks for that.
Do you know if the oil cooler is an addition for the 180 i.e not needed/fitted to lower hp engines? I have read of people fitting 140 EGRs but that seems to come with a need to add a separate oil cooler, usually with some kind of thermostatic control? Also, not sure I would trust the plastic coating, don't suppose we know yet how long or even if that will last, makes it a bit of a time bomb ans makes me think I would prefer a more complete repair.
Hi that’s the vw fix I suppose it would be possible to fit a 140 egr unit and change all the pipe work but it would be interesting as there is not much room for it on the 180 due to the twin turbo unit. As for the oil cooler the external engine block is the same as the 140 so to fit a 140 oil filter housing would be ok just a pipe work change .There has been no issues with the end of line 180s since 2015 that I know of but we are only 3 years in. When I say plastic coating it’s a bit of a generalization the coating is a bit more complex than that so as far as I know it should solve the issue
 
Rubberdubber

Rubberdubber

Messages
9
Location
In ma crib.
Vehicle
T5 SE 180 4Motion
I was worried about the surface of the metals inside deteriorating and if one the EGR gas side why not the opposite coolant side or areas where oil passes through but from what you have described, if it's a chemical reaction between the exhaust gas and metal then it shouldn't really happen anywhere else, so that's reassuring.
Any thoughts about blanking both sides and coding out? I have had a few vehicles over the years with either blanked of dialed down (diagnostically) EGRs and no issues so far with MOTs. Appreciate this is a different animal but we are intending keeping it for a long time and so re-sale concerns not so much at the moment.
 
AlanC

AlanC

Traveling
Lifetime VIP Member
Messages
1,337
Location
Bristol
Vehicle
T5 SE 180
Hi that’s the vw fix I suppose it would be possible to fit a 140 egr unit and change all the pipe work but it would be interesting as there is not much room for it on the 180 due to the twin turbo unit. As for the oil cooler the external engine block is the same as the 140 so to fit a 140 oil filter housing would be ok just a pipe work change .There has been no issues with the end of line 180s since 2015 that I know of but we are only 3 years in. When I say plastic coating it’s a bit of a generalization the coating is a bit more complex than that so as far as I know it should solve the issue
Just to add, I had a new base engine fitted in Dec 2016. This has the 'D' suffix cooler.

Since then (15k miles driven) the new engine has not consumed any oil. I did have the service times changed to 10k miles or a year, depending on what comes first, rather than stick to the 20k miles service which I have always been concerned about.

The current MOT has changed and now testing the emissions of diesel engines is much more rigorous. If you blank the ERG valve and cooler, your emissions will change, (plus the DPF may well clog up sooner), and the MOT test should pick this up and fail the van.

Alan
 
Rubberdubber

Rubberdubber

Messages
9
Location
In ma crib.
Vehicle
T5 SE 180 4Motion
I did speak to my local MOT station, they said they had a few vehicles in, which they knew had no DPFs and if they get a good fast run just before the test they pass fine. The emissions are higher than a fully DPF'd vehicle but low enough to pass. I am not sure the EGR being blanked is going to create more soot, I would need to believe that the soot being burnt second time around is actually going to be less and so the EGR doing it's job as claimed. Why would it burn more second time rather than first, same heat, same compression, surely better to get more clean air in and a better burn in the first place, rubbish all out the back. If I do it and I haven't made my mind up yet, I would need to make sure it gets a good fast run regularly to keep the soot down.
 
V

Vw guru

Messages
364
Location
Uk
Vehicle
T6 Ocean 204
I did speak to my local MOT station, they said they had a few vehicles in, which they knew had no DPFs and if they get a good fast run just before the test they pass fine. The emissions are higher than a fully DPF'd vehicle but low enough to pass. I am not sure the EGR being blanked is going to create more soot, I would need to believe that the soot being burnt second time around is actually going to be less and so the EGR doing it's job as claimed. Why would it burn more second time rather than first, same heat, same compression, surely better to get more clean air in and a better burn in the first place, rubbish all out the back. If I do it and I haven't made my mind up yet, I would need to make sure it gets a good fast run regularly to keep the soot down.

Hi In basics the reason for egr is to lower cylinder temperatures. If you burn clean air and fuel you raise cylinder temperatures creating more NOx, by introducing inert gas (exhaust gas) via the egr valve you get the the same amount of air fuel mixture in the cylinder but it burns at a lower temperature creating less NOx
 

Our Partners

Top