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Oil Comsumption / Engine Problems with 2010/2011 Cali's

Rubberdubber

Rubberdubber

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Ah yes, NOx being the stuff we ignored in the Uk until recently...oops!
 
larrylamb

larrylamb

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I notice on the Facebook group another 2010 Cali potentially has the oil consumption issue, anyone on here?
Interesting to note the EGR was changed in 2015.
 
V

Vw guru

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Damage would have already been done by then :(
 
Z

zesty_al

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widnes
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Evening all.
To save me reading through over 400 posts, can anyone confirm which reg GUARANTEES there won’t be an oil usage issue?
It seems it’s just the 2010/2011 versions, does this mean 2012/2013 are out of the woods?
Thanks


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2into1

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seems it’s just the 2010/2011 versions, does this mean 2012/2013 are out of the woods?
You won't get any guarantees.

It's believed the 10/11s had a different issue in addition to egr cooler disintegration. So an 12 onwards in a safer bet than a 10/11 but vans as late as 2014s (perhaps later) have been supplied with coolers older than the '/D' which is regarded as the solution.

You really need to do the homework and check the specific cooler on the specific van.
 
Z

zesty_al

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widnes
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You won't get any guarantees.

It's believed the 10/11s had a different issue in addition to egr cooler disintegration. So an 12 onwards in a safer bet than a 10/11 but vans as late as 2014s (perhaps later) have been supplied with coolers older than the '/D' which is regarded as the solution.

You really need to do the homework and check the specific cooler on the specific van.
Is it possible to buy a BiTDI and take it to a dealership to have the part changed to ensure trouble free motoring? Or is that just too easy?


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Perfectos

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It is possible to change the parts to upgrade, however if the damage to the engine is already done there’s not going back !
 
WelshGas

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You won't get any guarantees.

It's believed the 10/11s had a different issue in addition to egr cooler disintegration. So an 12 onwards in a safer bet than a 10/11 but vans as late as 2014s (perhaps later) have been supplied with coolers older than the '/D' which is regarded as the solution.

You really need to do the homework and check the specific cooler on the specific van.
2014 180 BiTurbo now on 82,368 miles. Oil Usage 500 mls/20,000 miles. Oh and it has the A egr.

No disputing there was a problem with 2010/11 CFCA 180 engines. Thereafter, pure supposition as to the actual cause and probably multi-factorial and most of the ones mentioned on the Facebook group are low milage 2010/11 vehicles. Of those that were not other factors were at play.
 
Perfectos

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for every reported case of oil usage there are an awful lot that have no problems at all, every make and model has potential issues.
As Welsh gas rightly points out those with high oil consumption appear to have been associated with relatively low miles.
There is no ryme or reason to the increased oil in a few but not others.
 
2into1

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Is it possible to buy a BiTDI and take it to a dealership to have the part changed to ensure trouble free motoring? Or is that just too easy?
Some have done a preemptive change of the egr valve and cooler to a ‘/d’ but it’s well over £1k job. Some have been lucky to have an earlier cooler fail under warranty and get a /d fitted early on and FOC. If you believe the causal argument (that the cooler fins fall to bits, turn to effectively carborundum and are fed into the engine which wears the cylinder bores and pistons) then you’d need to be confident this hasn’t started with a compression test or an oil consumption check over a 1000 miles or so. Otherwise the change could be too late.

Whenever this issue crops up, I chip in with my knowledge gained from reading the available experiences and welshgas refutes it. You really need to do some independent reading, particularly of the Facebook group on the matter, as the cross section of vans there is better and includes vans putting on miles faster than your average Cali owner.

Neither welshgas or I have collected stats as to the make up of failing vans in the Facebook group, but his estimate of ‘non 10/11 vans’ is very different to mine.
 
WelshGas

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Some have done a preemptive change of the egr valve and cooler to a ‘/d’ but it’s well over £1k job. Some have been lucky to have an earlier cooler fail under warranty and get a /d fitted early on and FOC. If you believe the causal argument (that the cooler fins fall to bits, turn to effectively carborundum and are fed into the engine which wears the cylinder bores and pistons) then you’d need to be confident this hasn’t started with a compression test or an oil consumption check over a 1000 miles or so. Otherwise the change could be too late.

Whenever this issue crops up, I chip in with my knowledge gained from reading the available experiences and welshgas refutes it. You really need to do some independent reading, particularly of the Facebook group on the matter, as the cross section of vans there is better and includes vans putting on miles faster than your average Cali owner.

Neither welshgas or I have collected stats as to the make up of failing vans in the Facebook group, but his estimate of ‘non 10/11 vans’ is very different to mine.
Compared to the numbers of vans sold the number of individual vehicles affected are miniscule.
 
AlanC

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WG, that statement is too sweeping.

If you are saying compared to the number of T5.1 vans sold, then you are right.

But of this number, how many were 180bhp engined ones? That is the number you need to make comparisons with.

We have it on good authority from a forum member, who is a Master Tech with a VW dealer, that VW considered this issue finally cured on the BiTurbo engine in 2015.

The 2010/11 engine was the worst effected, to the point that VW Customer Service knew the engine numbers and VIN numbers of affected vehicles. EGR cooler models with the suffixes up to C were not a definitive cure. The D suffix EGR cooler is considered to be the definitive one.

Not all 180bhp engines were effected, but sufficient were for the Norwegian ambulance service to have all their fleet engines changed.

Many more will have been fleet vans which were under contract and nothing is likely to have been said about them. We have heard mainly from private owners who make up a small proportion of vehicle owners.

Had I known about this issue before I bought a used Cali I would have steered well clear of the BiTurbo engine.

Alan
 
WelshGas

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WG, that statement is too sweeping.

If you are saying compared to the number of T5.1 vans sold, then you are right.

But of this number, how many were 180bhp engined ones? That is the number you need to make comparisons with.

We have it on good authority from a forum member, who is a Master Tech with a VW dealer, that VW considered this issue finally cured on the BiTurbo engine in 2015.

The 2010/11 engine was the worst effected, to the point that VW Customer Service knew the engine numbers and VIN numbers of affected vehicles. EGR cooler models with the suffixes up to C were not a definitive cure. The D suffix EGR cooler is considered to be the definitive one.

Not all 180bhp engines were effected, but sufficient were for the Norwegian ambulance service to have all their fleet engines changed.

Many more will have been fleet vans which were under contract and nothing is likely to have been said about them. We have heard mainly from private owners who make up a small proportion of vehicle owners.

Had I known about this issue before I bought a used Cali I would have steered well clear of the BiTurbo engine.

Alan
I think you would find, if examined in detail, the Norwegian Ambulance service engine change has very little to do if anything with this supposed problem relating to the EGR. The fleet had the engines changed and guess what " A " suffice EGR assemblies fitted.
If the EGR is the " sole " cause then every vehicle equipped with this EGR would be affected. They are not.
On the Facebook group the number of vehicles reported outside the 2010/2012 group are small. The EGR maybe part of the problem but if it wasn't fixed until 2015 then there should be hundreds of not thousands worldwide and there aren't. The problem is multifactorial, and as yet no one on that Facebook group has taken VW to court. A lot of talk but very little action because they have very little evidence.
There have been reports of T6s with excessive oil consumption, post 2015. Is the EGR implicated there?
 
BerndRos

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Whatever the arguments about what is, and is not affected, the fact remains that if afflicted its costly to sort out.

Purchased mine new in March 2010, 45000 miles later in summer 2015 it went from using very little oil to using a litre every few hundred miles, the usage coming on within weeks. Was in Germany at the time, called at a VW garage in Trier and they knew all about it, having already replaced several engines. Back in UK I had a new engine fitted in early 2016, the cost of approx £7500 split 70% to VW & 30% to me. Although I did not know or think it at the time I was lucky, as shortly after VW stopped making contributions. I think Alan C had to pay the whole cost himself ?

Have had no issues since, van runs like a dream, I do not have it on long life service but change the oil yearly regardless of mileage done.

Beware before you buy a 180BHP Bi Turbo.
 
Meoncoast

Meoncoast

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Whatever the arguments about what is, and is not affected, the fact remains that if afflicted its costly to sort out.

Purchased mine new in March 2010, 45000 miles later in summer 2015 it went from using very little oil to using a litre every few hundred miles, the usage coming on within weeks. Was in Germany at the time, called at a VW garage in Trier and they knew all about it, having already replaced several engines. Back in UK I had a new engine fitted in early 2016, the cost of approx £7500 split 70% to VW & 30% to me. Although I did not know or think it at the time I was lucky, as shortly after VW stopped making contributions. I think Alan C had to pay the whole cost himself ?

Have had no issues since, van runs like a dream, I do not have it on long life service but change the oil yearly regardless of mileage done.

Beware before you buy a 180BHP Bi Turbo.
We sold ours at the end of 2016 (trade-in) and although we had no oil usage in our higher than average mileage 180BHP Bi-Turbo I know a fellow member on here was interested in the van and paid for a compression check when he was thinking of buying and although the van had no symptoms of engine issues it was found to have issue with compression in 1 cylinder. I could not fault our T5 but feel I could have had a lucky escape from future repair bills by selling when we did - I am sure there are many 180s issue free but I would not risk the gamble of getting another.
 
WelshGas

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As long as a prospective buyer is aware of the problem, especially in relation to the 2010/11 engines and makes an informed decision that's fine. But to make sweeping statements that All 180's are affected or should be avoided is disingenuous and incorrect without some cast iron evidence to back up that statement.
 
Perfectos

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Calis suffer roof rot, not all but some, be aware of it and check yes, but remember not all suffer from the same issues.

Sweeping statements are easy to make and assumptions easily reached.

Tarring all Bi 180’s with the same brush is throwing the baby out with the bath water !

The fact remains that there are many many Bi180’s out there with no issues.

I have a favourite saying : No good can come of face book !
 
BerndRos

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I can’t see that anyone is or has tried to say all vans are affected.

The Q is, why run the risk of a £7500 bill for a new engine ?....remember the issue comes on with no notice and within the van doing less miles than it will do on a full tank. That is a reality as anyone who has had the issue will confirm.
 
BerndRos

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Calis suffer roof rot, not all but some, be aware of it and check yes, but remember not all suffer from the same issues.

Sweeping statements are easy to make and assumptions easily reached.

Tarring all Bi 180’s with the same brush is throwing the baby out with the bath water !

The fact remains that there are many many Bi180’s out there with no issues.

I have a favourite saying : No good can come of face book !
You can check for roof rot, you can’t really check for this engine malady. The former is inexpensive to put right, the later is not.

There is no comparison.
 
AlanC

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I think you would find, if examined in detail, the Norwegian Ambulance service engine change has very little to do if anything with this supposed problem relating to the EGR. The fleet had the engines changed and guess what " A " suffice EGR assemblies fitted.
If the EGR is the " sole " cause then every vehicle equipped with this EGR would be affected. They are not.
On the Facebook group the number of vehicles reported outside the 2010/2012 group are small. The EGR maybe part of the problem but if it wasn't fixed until 2015 then there should be hundreds of not thousands worldwide and there aren't. The problem is multifactorial, and as yet no one on that Facebook group has taken VW to court. A lot of talk but very little action because they have very little evidence.
There have been reports of T6s with excessive oil consumption, post 2015. Is the EGR implicated there?
That is a very confused statement. "I think you would find, if examined in detail, the Norwegian Ambulance service engine change has very little to do if anything with this supposed problem relating to the EGR. The fleet had the engines changed and guess what " A " suffice EGR assemblies fitted."

That begs the question 'why did they do it'? Why change engines of a national fleet of ambulances? No operation would want to spend that amount of money unless there was a very good reason. If the vehicle supplier instituted the change, then they would also need a good reason, even if they were supported by VW Norge.

As most van sales are fleet sales, I doubt we would know how many of those were affected or resolved either by having new engines fitted or being sold because of the issue.

When my van went in to have the engine changed in 2016, it was the third van to have this work done that month, according to my Service Manger. Just by scaling that up across the official dealer network gives some indication of the potential numbers with this issue.

The Facebook page is private owners who do not have the resources to take on VWUK or VW Germany.

BTW, following the new engine being fitted in 2016, I also changed the service period to yearly and for the last two years, covering a total of 19k miles, have not consumed any oil between changes . That is absolutely none, and I do check my engine fluid levels regularly.

Alan
 

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