SOFT BRAKE PEDAL

[SusiBus]

Since new I've always thought SusiBus's brake pedal felt soft, which often results in me often giving it an extra pump when preparing to brake. I've ask the dealer to have a look at them while other work is being done.
They said that the brakes on DSG vans feel softer than manual vehicles because of an interaction between the braking system and the DSG, a reason I find hard to understand.
I've driven manual Transporter vans which have had much harder pedal feel. I realise a fully loaded Cali is lot different to a lightly loaded Transporter van which I've had experience as a lone vehicle, but It's the feel of the pedal re pedal travel that is my concern. I've also driven a DSG Golf GTI, which certainly didn't have a soft pedal
If in fact it is an interaction between the DSG and the braking system, might there be a software adjustment that could adjust this feel?

 

[Loz]

You really need to compare like for like. 204 dsg with the big brakes. You are welcome to come over to the west county and drive mine..

 

[sidepod]

Since new I've always thought SusiBus's brake pedal felt soft, which often results in me often giving it an extra pump when preparing to brake. I've ask the dealer to have a look at them while other work is being done.
They said that the brakes on DSG vans feel softer than manual vehicles because of an interaction between the braking system and the DSG, a reason I find hard to understand.
I've driven manual Transporter vans which have had much harder pedal feel. I realise a fully loaded Cali is lot different to a lightly loaded Transporter van which I've had experience as a lone vehicle, but It's the feel of the pedal re pedal travel that is my concern. I've also driven a DSG Golf GTI, which certainly didn't have a soft pedal
If in fact it is an interaction between the DSG and the braking system, might there be a software adjustment that could adjust this feel?

Apart from placebo does the extra pump actually produce a firmer pedal? If it genuinely does then you probably have an issue. If it doesn’t then you probably don’t. Make sense?

 

[SailSki]

Hi Susibus,
Mine is a 2016 204 4M DSG and brake pedal is not soft, and no preparatory pumps needed for braking.
Hope this helps, and good luck finding the solution.
Cheers

 

[Bellcrew]

Since new I've always thought SusiBus's brake pedal felt soft, which often results in me often giving it an extra pump when preparing to brake. I've ask the dealer to have a look at them while other work is being done.
They said that the brakes on DSG vans feel softer than manual vehicles because of an interaction between the braking system and the DSG, a reason I find hard to understand.
I've driven manual Transporter vans which have had much harder pedal feel. I realise a fully loaded Cali is lot different to a lightly loaded Transporter van which I've had experience as a lone vehicle, but It's the feel of the pedal re pedal travel that is my concern. I've also driven a DSG Golf GTI, which certainly didn't have a soft pedal
If in fact it is an interaction between the DSG and the braking system, might there be a software adjustment that could adjust this feel?

The pedal needs to have some movement before the brake is fully engaged to effectively operate the stop start function switch/auto clutch disengage on the DSG and probably engine start function. How much is too much movement is a moot point.

 

[Jabberwocky]

Hi! Mines a 150 dsg as you know. I don’t recall noticing a soft pedal, will check when I get back to UK and let you know along with the other matter.

 

[tuono001]

A common symptom for soft brakes is air in the system. A bleed of the system and fresh fluid might help. There could be trapped air bubbles in the calipers.
This was a common problem on my bikes back brake, solution was to relocate the master cylinder away from the hot engine. I appreciate you can't do that on the van.
Just a thought.

 

[sidepod]

MV4 by any chance?

 

[tuono001]

Aprilia TuonoR

 

[SusiBus]

You really need to compare like for like. 204 dsg with the big brakes. You are welcome to come over to the west county and drive mine..

Your right Loz, it's got to be a like for like comparison to make a valid comparison. Ours is a 205 dsg 4Mo like yours, so thanks for the offer, and we might be travelling up through Tetbury to Cirencester on Saturday April 13, so may give you a call to see if your around. Thanks again for the offer

 

[SusiBus]

The pedal needs to have some movement before the brake is fully engaged to effectively operate the stop start function switch/auto clutch disengage on the DSG and probably engine start function. How much is too much movement is a moot point.

Might it make a difference whether the stop/start is deactivated or not?
It's with the dealer having a new kitchen/wardrobe fitted at the moment so I can't do any testing. So I'm hoping that as they will have driven many Calis, they can hopefully make a valid judgment.

 

[SusiBus]

A common symptom for soft brakes is air in the system. A bleed of the system and fresh fluid might help. There could be trapped air bubbles in the calipers.
This was a common problem on my bikes back brake, solution was to relocate the master cylinder away from the hot engine. I appreciate you can't do that on the van.
Just a thought.

Our other two cars are 17 and 50 years old, so I'm familiar with the feel of brakes with air in the system as you suggest. I suggested this as a cause when the vehicle was in for its first service, but it was discounted by the dealer, but they said I could pay for an early fluid change if I wanted, but this is a nearly vehicle, so I just felt this was unnecessary.

 

[Jabberwocky]

Interesting findings.
Just got back from holiday (not in Cali) and tried the brake pedal before I started the engine. Very hard pedal, almost as if the brakes were not servo assisted. Started the engine and the pedal went softer - servo activation effect I am guessing? Went for short drive and got what I expected. Strong progressive braking with no surprises. Got back home - "tested" the brake pedal and no noticeable "softness". A little pedal travel yes, but I would expect that. All seems well and as expected.

 

[Sandyvan]

We have changed from a manual 150 to a DSG 150, no difference with the feel of the pedal that I can recall.

 

[sidepod]

Just for ref. Diesel engines don’t have servos due to low inlet pressure delta to atmospheric (fuel injection).

Instead they run a vacuum pump which runs off the camshaft and creates a vacuum that way.
Every day is a school day

 

[Jabberwocky]

My understanding is that diesel Cars/Calis do have servo assisted brakes. Its just that the servomechanism is a vacuum pump as opposed to, in the case of petrol driven motors, vacuum provided directly from the inlet manifold.

 

[sidepod]

That’s kind of what I was saying.

 

[Loz]

Vacuum pump is on the back of the oil pump in the sump on the current diesel.

 

[sidepod]

That should make replacement nice and cheap! How are they on the 5? They are a bit weak on the 4. Easy to tell when they’ve gone, they sound like a bad tappit.

 

[burnercan]

I've been driving my 150 DSG 4Mo for nearly a year now and since day one I've been unhappy with the brake feel. The pedal is soft and squishy and there is a perceptible thump in the front end if I have to get on the brakes quickly. Last week I finally took it back to the dealer who assured me it's working as it should, but didn't have another one available to try. He also mentioned something about DSG relating to the soft, sinking pedal, though as was mentioned earlier a Golf with a DSG doesn't suffer from this. Next weekend's mission is to find a demonstrator or two and see if it's all in my imagination or not. From reading this thread this is not "just builder's van behaviour".

 

[B J G]

My 204 DSG always felt soft from day one. Shows up when I drive other vehicles when my first brake press nearly puts me through the windscreen or pins me to the seat if reversing. Recent loan of a manual T6 van had the same brake response in that I overbraked first press. Found the same on usual Caddy van loans.

No pumping needed just needs more force on the pedal than other vehicles that I drive. Doesn't inspire stopping confidence at times.

 

[SusiBus]

I've been driving my 150 DSG 4Mo for nearly a year now and since day one I've been unhappy with the brake feel. The pedal is soft and squishy and there is a perceptible thump in the front end if I have to get on the brakes quickly. Last week I finally took it back to the dealer who assured me it's working as it should, but didn't have another one available to try. He also mentioned something about DSG relating to the soft, sinking pedal, though as was mentioned earlier a Golf with a DSG doesn't suffer from this. Next weekend's mission is to find a demonstrator or two and see if it's all in my imagination or not. From reading this thread this is not "just builder's van behaviour".

Your description is is exactly right for how I perceive the brake pedal to feel, ie, "the pedal is soft and squishy and there is a perceptible thump in the front end if you have to get on the brakes quickly"

Susibus has just come back from having her new kitchen/wardrobe fitted, that's another painful story! While there, I ask the dealer to check the brakes, they have assured me that they consider the brakes to be normal. So hopefully they did test them, oh you cynic!

I think the only way to put my mind at rest, because I really don't like the feel of them, is to do as you suggest, find a like-for-like vehicle and test drive the two back to back.