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The reasons for this are complex and have been repeatedly given.


Mike
So what has changed now then?

A government spokesperson added on Wednesday there was “no evidence that interventions like closing borders or travel bans would have any effect on the spread of infection” and keeping borders open allowed citizens to return home and kept essential freight moving.

 
So what has changed now then?

A government spokesperson added on Wednesday there was “no evidence that interventions like closing borders or travel bans would have any effect on the spread of infection” and keeping borders open allowed citizens to return home and kept essential freight moving.


Im sorry but I really am not going to post a long explanation for why the policy was as it was and why and when it will change. It’s been given at considerable length on a number of occasions.
I’ve heard the full explanation given by scientists and the politicians who made the decision and I’m satisfied.

It’s not a case of simple quotes,dealing with complex issues is, well complicated. You need to do your own research and make up your own mind as you certainly won’t trust any summary from me.

If you didn’t follow it at the time I agree it’s not easy.






Mike
 
Im sorry but I really am not going to post a long explanation for why the policy was as it was and why and when it will change. It’s been given at considerable length on a number of occasions.
I’ve heard the full explanation given by scientists and the politicians who made the decision and I’m satisfied.

It’s not a case of simple quotes,dealing with complex issues is, well complicated. You need to do your own research and make up your own mind as you certainly won’t trust any summary from me.

If you didn’t follow it at the time I agree it’s not easy.






Mike

Ok, so to summarise, you don’t know then.
 
Yes I know. It’s easy.


Mike
It may because because they finally started listening to Professor Scally.

“The UK is an outlier,” said Professor Gabriel Scally, president of epidemiology and public health at the Royal Society of Medicine. “It is very hard to understand why it persists in having this open borders policy. It is most peculiar.”
 
Probably it was not in place because every ounce of testing resource was going into hospital testing with absolutely no slack in the system. We can't test if we don't have the kits.
I'm not sure that gives the full picture.

Very soon after, or even shortly before, the WHO announced Coronavirus to be a Global Pandemic, Britain gave up its superbly effective test, track and trace procedures, and resolved to keep testing centralised and within the NHS. Instead it was to rely on herd immunity and pregnancy style antibody tests which do not need laboratories. Meanwhile, in Germany they were taking a very different approach and doing everything possible to ramp up testing, such as repurposing animal testing laboratories for C19 testing. This led to a shortage of tests in the UK as the number of infections increased, and the pregnancy style antibody tests proved unreliable. Large scale testing of NHS staff was unable to determine if they has some level of immunity, and it turns out that the herd immunity theory was better suited to a flu pandemic than a coronavirus pandemic anyway.

It is not until the Government releases its SAGE minutes that we will learn the truth. Was this science led, or did the scientists lay a menu of options with consequences before politicians for choosing. Either way, I do not trust our Prime Minister either to tell the whole truth or to make decisions based on science.
 
It may because because they finally started listening to Professor Scally.

“The UK is an outlier,” said Professor Gabriel Scally, president of epidemiology and public health at the Royal Society of Medicine. “It is very hard to understand why it persists in having this open borders policy. It is most peculiar.”

That is the problem. There are loads of experts. Does he know of the all the circumstances. Does he know more than the experts advising the government.

Enough already. With what I heard and observed I was happy. In any case quarantine is not a magical catch all unless you forcibly quarantine everyone on the damn plane.




Mike
 
In any case quarantine is not a magical catch all unless you forcibly quarantine everyone on the damn plane.
If the objective is to reduce R not eliminate R you do not have to catch everyone.

If you catch half of all people before they infect anyone you half the R number.

If you catch all people before they infect half the number of people they would otherwise infect you half the R number.

If you catch half the people before they infect half the number of people they would other wise infect, you reduce the R number by 25%.

If our R number is currently 0.7, there is a real prospect that an effective track and trace testing regime will reduce R to 0.525 if half of all infected people are quarantined halfway through their infectious period.

As I have said many times, not ramping up our early and effective track and trace testing regime has cost a great many lives.
 
I see the 2 Lefties are still at.
Now they have company.




The Left's hysterical 'confusion' over No 10's plan is utterly transparent


Whether or not someone saw the Prime Minister’s statement as clear fell down partisan lines

It’s finally happened. The partisan politics that was suspended at the outbreak of this crisis has returned in full force. Initially the opposition signalled, publicly at least, that it was going to be constructive and help the Government. The three devolved administrations of the United Kingdom moved in lockstep, and reciprocal praise and good will was abundant.
Shadow Chancellor Aneliese Dodds even took to the radio before the lockdown to promote the Government’s line of following SAGE, resisting pressure to close schools or confine people to their homes.
Over the weekend, however, that all changed. Starting with Welsh Labour and the Scottish Nationalist Party, politicians decided that now is the time to unilaterally end the effective ceasefire our politics had been suspended in for weeks, and go on the attack. No longer were there warm words for the Government emphasising the challenges they face, instead the green light was given for politicisation.
The Labour Party have now curiously clearly positioned themselves as the pro-lockdown party, seemingly ready to resist changes in messaging and shifts to any state of affairs that do not resemble house arrest. Ironically, Sir Keir Starmer was among the initial few voices to demand a route out of the lockdown in the first place. Now that the Government is doing exactly that, however, Labour’s mood music has shifted.

The political games were clear to see. Whatever Boris had said on Sunday evening, the Left wing parties were ready to spin it as uncaring, unscientific, incomprehensible, or a curious mix of all three. This became the moment that the lockdown divides truly became partisan.
Whether or not someone saw the Prime Minister’s statement as clear or helpful fell down precisely partisan lines. Opposition MPs have now fully broken from national guidance, continuing to push the out of date ‘Stay at Home’ slogan, which is arguably more confusing than any other messaging now that across the UK people are able to leave their homes for unlimited time.
The same Labour MPs who pretended their 2019 Brexit policy was the most straightforward thing in the world to understand are now expressing faux outrage over government communications. Perhaps they genuinely feel that the concept of the rate of infection helping determine how much of the economy can open up is somehow wildly incomprehensible. Perhaps they are just going along with the crowd. Either way it is back to politics as usual.
Labour’s Rachel Hopkins tweeted a blurry picture of one of the Government’s simplified graph about the three announced stages of lockdown wind down with a bafflement that, if genuine, should seriously worry her constituents. Her job is to help the people she represents. Performative confusion helps no one. Hopkins followed up her tweet of the graph with the unrelated comment “Lack of clarity from govt, suggesting people go back to work if they can, although try to avoid public transport?”, suggesting she may need to become better acquainted with the country, 83pc of whom do not use public transport to get to work.

To some extent this resumed politicisation can be seen as good news. We are past the peak. The Covid curve remained within NHS capacity. The sombrero was squashed. Case numbers, hospitalisations, and daily death tolls are gradually falling. It is only now we start to see light at the end of the tunnel that we can get back to bickering. Normal bad faith cheap shot politics is resuming as the road ahead becomes clearer and in a funny way that’s a good thing. Hopefully, the public will see it for what it is.
 
It would be really nice if the same handful of people who repeatedly drag every thread down into an exchange of snide, childish personal insults would just stop it please. It's tedious for the rest of us and ends up with otherwise potentially interesting threads being closed down when it all gets completely out of hand.

[EDIT: I see the mods have now removed several of the posts I was referring to in this thread. Just to be clear, I wasn't arguing for censorship, just good manners.]
 
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If the objective is to reduce R not eliminate R you do not have to catch everyone.

If you catch half of all people before they infect anyone you half the R number.

If you catch all people before they infect half the number of people they would otherwise infect you half the R number.

If you catch half the people before they infect half the number of people they would other wise infect, you reduce the R number by 25%.

If our R number is currently 0.7, there is a real prospect that an effective track and trace testing regime will reduce R to 0.525 if half of all infected people are quarantined halfway through their infectious period.

As I have said many times, not ramping up our early and effective track and trace testing regime has cost a great many lives.

Yes the objective was to reduce R.

That objective has been achieved, but still needs reducing further. It has now been deemed possible to begin a release of the lockdown so to reduce the chances of it rising due to infection from abroad the policy may be changed.

Why we must take every individual decision and make comparisons with what others do is beyond me. Decisions are not isolated they are connected to what is happening here, not Finland, not Germany, not South Korea, here.

If a bit more time and energy was spent trying to make things work rather than pick fault we would be a great deal closer to ending this.

I know your views on testing and I believe they may be built on a number of false premises.

I reserve the right to wait for the full facts before reaching a judgement and even then I shall not be condemning anyone if a decision was made in good faith and turned out to be wrong.

You have your view and I have mine. I am not seeking to change your view.




Mike
 
I see the 2 Lefties are still at.
Now they have company.




The Left's hysterical 'confusion' over No 10's plan is utterly transparent


Whether or not someone saw the Prime Minister’s statement as clear fell down partisan lines

It’s finally happened. The partisan politics that was suspended at the outbreak of this crisis has returned in full force. Initially the opposition signalled, publicly at least, that it was going to be constructive and help the Government. The three devolved administrations of the United Kingdom moved in lockstep, and reciprocal praise and good will was abundant.
Shadow Chancellor Aneliese Dodds even took to the radio before the lockdown to promote the Government’s line of following SAGE, resisting pressure to close schools or confine people to their homes.
Over the weekend, however, that all changed. Starting with Welsh Labour and the Scottish Nationalist Party, politicians decided that now is the time to unilaterally end the effective ceasefire our politics had been suspended in for weeks, and go on the attack. No longer were there warm words for the Government emphasising the challenges they face, instead the green light was given for politicisation.
The Labour Party have now curiously clearly positioned themselves as the pro-lockdown party, seemingly ready to resist changes in messaging and shifts to any state of affairs that do not resemble house arrest. Ironically, Sir Keir Starmer was among the initial few voices to demand a route out of the lockdown in the first place. Now that the Government is doing exactly that, however, Labour’s mood music has shifted.

The political games were clear to see. Whatever Boris had said on Sunday evening, the Left wing parties were ready to spin it as uncaring, unscientific, incomprehensible, or a curious mix of all three. This became the moment that the lockdown divides truly became partisan.
Whether or not someone saw the Prime Minister’s statement as clear or helpful fell down precisely partisan lines. Opposition MPs have now fully broken from national guidance, continuing to push the out of date ‘Stay at Home’ slogan, which is arguably more confusing than any other messaging now that across the UK people are able to leave their homes for unlimited time.
The same Labour MPs who pretended their 2019 Brexit policy was the most straightforward thing in the world to understand are now expressing faux outrage over government communications. Perhaps they genuinely feel that the concept of the rate of infection helping determine how much of the economy can open up is somehow wildly incomprehensible. Perhaps they are just going along with the crowd. Either way it is back to politics as usual.
Labour’s Rachel Hopkins tweeted a blurry picture of one of the Government’s simplified graph about the three announced stages of lockdown wind down with a bafflement that, if genuine, should seriously worry her constituents. Her job is to help the people she represents. Performative confusion helps no one. Hopkins followed up her tweet of the graph with the unrelated comment “Lack of clarity from govt, suggesting people go back to work if they can, although try to avoid public transport?”, suggesting she may need to become better acquainted with the country, 83pc of whom do not use public transport to get to work.

To some extent this resumed politicisation can be seen as good news. We are past the peak. The Covid curve remained within NHS capacity. The sombrero was squashed. Case numbers, hospitalisations, and daily death tolls are gradually falling. It is only now we start to see light at the end of the tunnel that we can get back to bickering. Normal bad faith cheap shot politics is resuming as the road ahead becomes clearer and in a funny way that’s a good thing. Hopefully, the public will see it for what it is.
Quoting the Telegraph, after your tirades on the Guardian, oh the irony.

.....and before you start hurling your vicious insults in my direction, I'm neither left or right, I vote for Centerpartiet.
 
It would be really nice if the same handful of people who repeatedly drag every thread down into an exchange of snide, childish personal insults would just stop it please. It's tedious for the rest of us and ends up with otherwise potentially interesting threads being closed down when it all gets completely out of hand.
I agree, they’re stinky smelly bum-bums.
Yes they are, I know they are, coz I said so......nah nah nah nah nah!
:happy
 
Quoting the Telegraph, after your tirades on the Guardian, oh the irony.

.....and before you start hurling your vicious insults in my direction, I'm neither left or right, I vote for Centerpartiet.
Or you don’t have any thoughts of your own.:kiss
 
It would be really nice if the same handful of people who repeatedly drag every thread down into an exchange of snide, childish personal insults would just stop it please. It's tedious for the rest of us and ends up with otherwise potentially interesting threads being closed down when it all gets completely out of hand.
Tough.
If certain members would accept that others have a different view and just accept that then things could be discussed but they don’t so I will continue. Ok Boomer, as one of them is so fond of saying when his argument is shown to be the rubbish it is.
 
Or you don’t have any thoughts of your own.:kiss
It's clear you come from a very secular part of the hard right (if the Torygraph is your source of propaganda) and hard line Brexit posts are anything to go by, and that's fine, ultimately we all take a position.

What isn't fine is your very inarticulate way of slagging people off with name calling (dickheads appears to be your current favourite), and BTW I haven't got clean hands here either, I have used a lot colloquial nomenclature for Brexiters recently, which doesn't help.

I do feel I know where the line is though, somewhere around crass nastiness, that you seem to regularly cross, which is a real shame because you used to be a respected poster until Brexit and CV19 came along.

As for CP Politics, I'm happy to help you out over a Zoom call, the Swedish copy they use is actually written by the missus too.
 
It's clear you come from a very secular part of the hard right (if the Torygraph is your source of propaganda) and hard line Brexit posts are anything to go by, and that's fine, ultimately we all take a position.

What isn't fine is your very inarticulate way of slagging people off with name calling (dickheads appears to be your current favourite), and BTW I haven't got clean hands here either, I have used a lot colloquial nomenclature for Brexiters recently, which doesn't help.

I do feel I know where the line is though, somewhere around crass nastiness, that you seem to regularly cross, which is a real shame because you used to be a respected poster until Brexit and CV19 came along.

As for CP Politics, I'm happy to help you out over a Zoom call, the Swedish copy they use is actually written by the missus too.
Takes one to know one. :kiss
 
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