T4 Westy Fridge/Control panel advice please

[Dorset Drifter]

I have had my 1992 T4 Westfalia California for about a month now and have only been using it locally for days out. I now want to go further afield but have found a problem with the fridge.

I have read various threads on the forum but can't find an answer, if it has already been discussed please point me in the right direction.

While the engine is running the fridge works ok as switched on and adjusted from the control panel (an internal thermometer has proved this).

With engine off fridge will not run on either leisure batteries or hook up. (Leisure batteries 12.74V and hooked up 14.54V using voltmeter).

Control panel seems to be the problem. It does not show battery voltage or recognise hook up, although the hook up does power the internal sockets and work charger.

With engine off - if I remove the control panel fuse from the bank behind the drivers seat the display goes blank (as you would expect). When I put it back in the display lights up and I can turn on and hear the fridge start. It runs for approx 20 seconds and then stops and the battery icon on the control panel flashes.

Should I check anything else?

If the faulty control panel is stopping the fridge working of leisure batteries or hook up why does it work off the alternator?

Any thoughts/advice would be appreciated.

 

[Dorset Drifter]

More info, does it help....

The batteries are lead acid and not gel, which I know I need to change. Would the dip switch settings on the control panel cause my problem if they have not been changed from gel to lead acid?

 

[sidepod]

Get s spare battery and hook up a temp supply direct to the fridge. If it works, then the problem is not the fridge.

Next replace the control panel to see if that solves the problem.

 

[Rascal1]

Have you checked all the fuses.If the fuse for the water pump is blown I think it creates a funny unrelated problem like this... Memory might be playing tricks with me but easy to check all fuses or turn on the tap.

 

[TwentyOneThirtyFive]

Welcome to the world of Westies

Could be a bad earth. Although in that case I'd expect that if the voltage is sufficient with the engine running, it would also be sufficient on hookup.

Fridge won't run with less than 10.5v, so check what voltage you have at the fridge.

Control panel seems to be the problem. It does not show battery voltage or recognise hook up, although the hook up does power the internal sockets and work charger.

The hookup symbol is a feed off the charger. Check you have the original charger. It's under the fridge and easy to access. The earth shunt is under there somewhere as well (hard to tell where they moved things about on the earlier vans), worth checking that. It's how the negative is connected to the body and how the voltage for the display is taken.

good luck!
dan

 

[Dorset Drifter]

Thanks for your replies.

I have removed and replaced all the fuses which were ok.
I have 12.7v at the fridge so that seems ok.
It would appear that it is not the original charger
I have found the earth shunt, which again looks ok. I think I need to have the batteries out and trace the wiring around that back corner to check things better.
Are replacement control panels available if that turns out to be the problem?

 

[TwentyOneThirtyFive]

Ok, so that explains why you don't get the plug symbol (it's a 5v signal from the original charger, small green wire).

Does the control panel show a voltage when the engine is running (should be around 14.4v if the batteries are charged).

With the engine running and the fridge on, is the snowflake symbol displayed?

With the engine off, is the snowflake symbol displayed?

Yes, controllers are available but the later ones with the built in heater controller. I think they may be slightly larger, but I remember someone managed to fit one in an early van. Available here: http://www.vwbusshop.de/epages/Guen...hops/GuenzlClassicParts/Products/900001506048

Might be worth testing the inputs to the controller first. There is a description of the wiring in this manual: http://westfaliat4.info/VW_T4_Zentralelektronik2006.pdf (page 13). Says pins 25/26 for measuring the voltage, but this is probably different on the earlier controller? I imagine the wire colours will be correct black (sw) and red (rt).

dan

 

[TwentyOneThirtyFive]

Just had a thought is the original charger plug still in place (6 pins I think). I'm having a thought that the red/black cables for the controller are connected into the back of that plug (may be wrong, Westy wiring is quite complicated)

 

[Dorset Drifter]

Ok, so that explains why you don't get the plug symbol (it's a 5v signal from the original charger, small green wire).

Does the control panel show a voltage when the engine is running (should be around 14.4v if the batteries are charged). - No voltage showing with the engine running.

With the engine running and the fridge on, is the snowflake symbol displayed? - Yes and internal therm shows it gets cold.

With the engine off, is the snowflake symbol displayed? - Yes, but fridge doesn't start. If I reset the controller by removing and replacing the fuse, then turn on the fridge the snowflake appears, I hear fridge start and run for 30 seconds then stop, the snowflake remains but the battery icon starts flashing.

Yes, controllers are available but the later ones with the built in heater controller. I think they may be slightly larger, but I remember someone managed to fit one in an early van. Available here: http://www.vwbusshop.de/epages/Guen...hops/GuenzlClassicParts/Products/900001506048

Might be worth testing the inputs to the controller first. There is a description of the wiring in this manual: http://westfaliat4.info/VW_T4_Zentralelektronik2006.pdf (page 13). Says pins 25/26 for measuring the voltage, but this is probably different on the earlier controller? I imagine the wire colours will be correct black (sw) and red (rt). - Ok, thanks I'll give that a try.

dan

 

[Dorset Drifter]

Just had a thought is the original charger plug still in place (6 pins I think). I'm having a thought that the red/black cables for the controller are connected into the back of that plug (may be wrong, Westy wiring is quite complicated)

No, it doesn't look like it

Thanks for your help, I'll keep at it.

 

[TwentyOneThirtyFive]

Think it's worth removing that insulating tape and seeing what horrors lurk there. Seems to be far more wires going in than coming out!

Original charger plug would have been:

red and brown, 2.5mm cables. These were the output to the batteries.
red and black, 0.5mm cables. These were battery voltage monitoring cables. On my van, the black came out of a heater relay, not sure where the red came from. But there were two sets of 0.5mm cables connected to those pins, which makes me think this is fed to the controller (which may affect the fridge. Something makes the 10.5v decision, I don't know if it is the controller, or the fridge electronics. There is a undervoltage feed between the controller and fridge, but I don't know in which direction that signal goes).
green is the hookup signal.
red/grey is the temperature sensor in the battery box (should be top right of the battery box if it is still there).

Edit: My earlier comment about voltage coming from earth shunt is incorrect, I got confused between voltage and current!

 

[Dorset Drifter]

Thanks Dan, I'll continue the investigation tomorrow, it's too cold out there now!

 

[Dorset Drifter]

Think it's worth removing that insulating tape and seeing what horrors lurk there. Seems to be far more wires going in than coming out!

Having removed insulating tape

So these look to be what would have gone into the original charger. They have been chopped off and just taped up! The charger only has the kettle type plug as an input and two wires coming out to the batteries.

Might be worth testing the inputs to the controller first. There is a description of the wiring in this manual: http://westfaliat4.info/VW_T4_Zentralelektronik2006.pdf (page 13). Says pins 25/26 for measuring the voltage, but this is probably different on the earlier controller? I imagine the wire colours will be correct black (sw) and red (rt).

From my testing of the inputs to the controller I am only getting voltage on pins 5 and 10 from what I can see without the engine running.
My electrical knowledge is limited so thought I would see if running the engine would give power to more pins. After a couple of minutes but before I could check anything, the alternator belt broke! Back to work tomorrow so that's another job for next week.

Any further thoughts re charger/controller would be much appreciated as always, thanks.

Stuart

 

[TwentyOneThirtyFive]

Mine used to eat alternator belts! I lost one on Skye on a BH weekend. Had a bit of a panic as I knew less than nothing about then van or vehicle mechanics back then. Always carry a spare one now. Lost one in Ireland, didn't panic

Firstly, I'd do something about the 2.5mm brown and red cables. IF they are still connected to the batteries you are risking a short circuit there, which will probably result in a fire. Disconnect them from the batteries and remove the cables.

check the two 0.5mm red cables are connected to each other. Same with the two 0.5mm black cables. My guess is that will bring the voltage display to life on the central controller. If not, I'm out of ideas for the time being.

Green I'd just cap properly, grey red - you can remove the temp sensor and just pull the wire through. Keep hold of it in case you ever decide to replace the charger with an original (Expensive!) or there is a replacement listed in the Westy Useful Info thread that has all the same inputs/outputs as the original.

Hopefully this solves the problem

 

[Dorset Drifter]

Mine used to eat alternator belts! I lost one on Skye on a BH weekend. Had a bit of a panic as I knew less than nothing about then van or vehicle mechanics back then. Always carry a spare one now. Lost one in Ireland, didn't panic

Firstly, I'd do something about the 2.5mm brown and red cables. IF they are still connected to the batteries you are risking a short circuit there, which will probably result in a fire. Disconnect them from the batteries and remove the cables.

check the two 0.5mm red cables are connected to each other. Same with the two 0.5mm black cables. My guess is that will bring the voltage display to life on the central controller. If not, I'm out of ideas for the time being.

Green I'd just cap properly, grey red - you can remove the temp sensor and just pull the wire through. Keep hold of it in case you ever decide to replace the charger with an original (Expensive!) or there is a replacement listed in the Westy Useful Info thread that has all the same inputs/outputs as the original.

Hopefully this solves the problem

Excellent, you are a star!

None of the taped up wires wires were connected, just chopped. Black and red ones now connected and as you say voltage shows on controller and the fridge now runs off batteries

Thanks again, that will do for today. I think it's time for a beer to celebrate!

 

[TwentyOneThirtyFive]

Fantastic!

 

[T6 CFO]

Shows how sad I am. Not got a T4. Not got a Cali yet. Still interesting. Cracking result


Mike

 

[mrcheesbrough]

Top work there @TwentyOneThirtyFive. Fascinating stuff. Hopefully I'll never need to go in so deep.

 

[sidepod]

Strong work D

 

[TwentyOneThirtyFive]

It was good timing really. Spent some time over the winter replacing my heater, so have been getting quite intimate with Westy wiring!

 

[Nils T]

Excellent, you are a star!

None of the taped up wires wires were connected, just chopped. Black and red ones now connected and as you say voltage shows on controller and the fridge now runs off batteries View attachment 12403 View attachment 12404

Thanks again, that will do for today. I think it's time for a beer to celebrate!

Hi.
What cables did you connect? I have the same problem in my California. One original plug bit no battery indicator. The two thin red cables are together and the two black one are together. What more should i do?
Best regards
Nils

 

[Nils T]

From my car

 

[Dorset Drifter]

That was all I did, connected the two thin red together and the two thin black together and blanked off the others. This gives me fridge operation on battery where before it had only been on hook-up, also control panel display shows voltage and a bar chart of battery state but no indication of hook-up.

Good luck!

 

[Nils T]

Thanks for replying.
Thats weird, i only have the first and last indicator for battery. Nothing in between. Will this show when i use the battery?

 

[Dorset Drifter]

Yes, bar display should show fully and then count down, if you run the fridge.