T6 Ocean, speaker upgrade.

[Shadrack]

Hi all.
I am swapping out the front speakers and tweeters that came with the new Cali.
With the help of the various forums I have discovered how to remove door cards and I am in the process of deadening the doors before installing Pioneer ts-H1703 drivers.
I have become a little stuck on how I access the stock tweeters that I want to replace. There seems lots of info fo the T5, but not the Later T6.
The tweeters are mounted in the windscreen pillars along with the front blinds.
Does anyone know how I get these covers off, or get at the tweeters to replace?

Cheers.

 

[Stuart]

Not sure if you've already tried https://www.t6forum.com/ but I reckon you'll have more luck over there!

 

[Kmann]

I would love to see a DIY photoserie og the project … ;-)

 

[Loz]

@Shadrack I sent you a PM

 

[Shadrack]

Thanks Loz... I have replied.

I have not yet received the replacement pioneer components, but I have started the deadoning of the door skins.
Just stuck at the moment on this A pillar cover removal(where the screen Blind lives)

In the ocean and maybe all new T6 bodies the front tweeters are now mounted in the pillar cover rather than on the top of dash, to me the latter seemed pretty straight forward to get at.
Maybe the pillar ones will be too once I have discovered how.

Thanks for help guys...
I will take a few picks with words when I have completed...

Cheers..

 

[Shadrack]

Hi all,
I have reached a point were I am about to mount and connect the right pioneer speaker.
But I am now in doubt on the colour codes for the speaker. The supplied prewired adaptor that came with my speaker mounting collars seems to contradict a lot of advice I have read in the many posts.
The red in the adaptor definitely has the larger terminal. Put at the adaptor end the red seems to be connected to the brown blue stripe and not the corresponding red and blue stripe..
is thi correct or should I swap the pins?

 

[Loz]

Have you looked at the circuit diagram?

 

[Shadrack]

Hi Loz,
I wish I had one, as it would probably help me clear this up.
If you are aware of a useful link to one, that would be appreciated.

Cheers...

 

[reserves]

If you have a multimeter you can easily test the polarity.

I upgraded my speakers and remember the VW plug ding very odd, but can't remember the colours sorry.

 

[Loz]

Hi Loz,
I wish I had one, as it would probably help me clear this up.
If you are aware of a useful link to one, that would be appreciated.

Cheers...

 

[Shadrack]

Hi Loz,
Brilliant thanks, but more confused now.

I am not sure which of the three circuit diagrams refers to the new ocean, but each clearly states that the Red/blue wire is the speaker positive the brown/blue negative.
That contradicts the lead configuration on the adaptor plug supplied.
(I have checked pictures of other adaptor leads in various threads and pictures, all the same?)
Something is clearly not correct. Hmmmm.

But thank you Loz for diagram.

I am going to try and track down connector diagram on back of the radio..

Cheers..

 

[Shadrack]

Hi Reserves,
Thank you for advice, I am not sure, but I think the signal at the speaker is sinusidal and that it would measure positive and also negative being a sign wave.
I think the idea of polarity on speakers etc is to ensure the cones travel in the same direction. I.e. All Cones move out when positive and all move in when sinewave goes negative.. so they stay in phase I think I am trying to say.
But I must admit it's been many a year since I last needed to know the technology behind amplification.
I will put a meter on tho to see what the effect is.
Thank you for your suggestion...

 

[Loz]

You can check speaker polarity with a small aaa battery if you brush the positive speaker cable on the plus end(and the negative on the negative) the cone will extend outwards..

 

[Shadrack]

Hi Loz,
That's a good point, I could do that on the vw one. (Not my pioneers!!)

But looking at the diagrams and the many adaptors that are available on line something is out of kilter.

I will wait until I remove the tweeters in the A columns. As long as I find that all positive connections are wired with the same colour and the same with the negatives then I won't be bothered what the colour is used as I don't think it will make any difference to the sound output as all speakers will be "In Phase"..

Thanks again for suggesting....

 

[Shadrack]

Hi Loz,
Thank you for your previous suggestions. With your help I think I have got to the bottom of this now.
I will try and explain my findings.
If I apply a small positive current to the speaker + terminal indeed the cone moves out.
This is also the terminal that the vw speaker + ve (Red/Blue stripe) is connected to.
I also did the same test on the new Pioneer speaker(mad me) but also it was with a positive onto the positive terminal(larger connector) that caused the cone to move out.
I can't believe this, but it is telling me that all of these adaptor cables have the socket end wired incorrectly.
In my research I have looked at many of these adaptors and they are all the same all over the Internet from many different suppliers.

I do hope I can be proved wrong here.

What it means in the big world is that, if I am right is that systems with more than one driver will have speakers working out of phase if all have not all been replaced?
For example fronts and not rears, or fronts and not tweeters or a mid range if fitted.

I will go over all of it again to be sure, but the diagram and the cone movement do agree and help to confirm there is a mistake...

Cheers.

 

[Loz]

Hi Loz,
Thank you for your previous suggestions. With your help I think I have got to the bottom of this now.
I will try and explain my findings.
If I apply a small positive current to the speaker + terminal indeed the cone moves out.
This is also the terminal that the vw speaker + ve (Red/Blue stripe) is connected to.
I also did the same test on the new Pioneer speaker(mad me) but also it was with a positive onto the positive terminal(larger connector) that caused the cone to move out.
I can't believe this, but it is telling me that all of these adaptor cables have the socket end wired incorrectly.
In my research I have looked at many of these adaptors and they are all the same all over the Internet from many different suppliers.

I do hope I can be proved wrong here.

What it means in the big world is that, if I am right is that systems with more than one driver will have speakers working out of phase if all have not all been replaced?
For example fronts and not rears, or fronts and not tweeters or a mid range if fitted.

I will go over all of it again to be sure, but the diagram and the cone movement do agree and help to confirm there is a mistake...

Cheers.

Doesn't surprise me.. at least yours will be spot on

 

[Raggedroy]

Hi Loz,
Thank you for your previous suggestions. With your help I think I have got to the bottom of this now.
I will try and explain my findings.
If I apply a small positive current to the speaker + terminal indeed the cone moves out.
This is also the terminal that the vw speaker + ve (Red/Blue stripe) is connected to.
I also did the same test on the new Pioneer speaker(mad me) but also it was with a positive onto the positive terminal(larger connector) that caused the cone to move out.
I can't believe this, but it is telling me that all of these adaptor cables have the socket end wired incorrectly.
In my research I have looked at many of these adaptors and they are all the same all over the Internet from many different suppliers.

I do hope I can be proved wrong here.

What it means in the big world is that, if I am right is that systems with more than one driver will have speakers working out of phase if all have not all been replaced?
For example fronts and not rears, or fronts and not tweeters or a mid range if fitted.

I will go over all of it again to be sure, but the diagram and the cone movement do agree and help to confirm there is a mistake...

Cheers.

Did you also try connecting the test battery the other way round?

 

[Shadrack]

Hi Raggedroy,
I did do the test the other way around, but as I did it I remembered from a million years ago or even longer (college days) that when you pass a current through a coil within a magnetetic field the coil traveled in one direction. Reversing the current caused a movement in the opposite direction.

Thank you, it was a good thought to help prove the point.

Shadrack

 

[Shadrack]

Hi,
A quick update with my speaker upgrade.

Firstly I have confirmed that the supplied speaker adaptor lead is wired incorrectly. So if you have used a similar you will need to check that the Red cable is actually the Positive if you want to get the best from your system.
After I had made the correction on one adaptor I connected a new pioneer in one door and left the original stock speaker in the other door with just the vw plug connected to it.
I played some bassey music so I could easily see the cone move on the pioneer whilst my hand lightly rested on the vw speaker, it was very easy to feel/see both were in phase.

I took the opportunity to compare the sound with new and the original speaker. Not the best way I admit.....
Initially as the volume was really low I thought not that much of an improvement.
As soon as I put the slightest amount of volume on it was amazing. The pioneer 'woke up' it was so tight and sharp.
A fantastic transformation....

This is also down to the deadening of the panels. It makes such a difference.
I did not remove the inner panel as I did not feel happy to remove the window on a brand new Ocean. So I deadend as much of the outer skin as I could through the speaker hole..

I have to thank Absolut5 for his recommendation for the pioneer. He is spot on. This speaker is the perfect match for the stock Radio. Such an improvement over the stock cardboard speakers...
I can't wait to get the other one done and of course the tweeters...
Next is the door card though, I have to get that damped a little also something to remove any road noise that may be there.


I have solderd directly to the speakers solder terminal.. The Red as you see is going to the -ve terminal.



Speaker mounted and cable identifying the polarity of the cables..


Internal panel deadened.

 

[Shadrack]

Hi,
An update on completed door card. I have now deadened areas around the speaker area with a few sheets of silent coat. Not too much as it's effect will be more noticeable on the speaker cabinet itself, i.e. The door. But some I am hoping will help to eliminate any vibration. The other consideration apart from its cost is the weight of the stuff.

I also took the opportunity whilst the card was removed was to add less dense foam to the door. This was to help remove any other road/traffic noise.
Around the edge of the card I deliberately let it stand a little proud so hopefully when the card is replaced it will compress slightly against the door and stop the possibility of vibration between card and door.

All the plastic clips are in place now, none broke on removal. Thanks to advice on the forum to purchase trim removal tools also to be confident and give a firm pull when removing.

 

[Shadrack]

Hi everyone,
I have just completed the front speaker upgrade to my Cali. I have included a few more pics of the installation.
There seems to be a lot of info on upgrading the door speakers but not a lot on the tweeters in the A columns. These were quite awkwered to remove for the first time so I have included a few pics of the trim and columns to highlight the clip locations.

Like everything I guess, once done for the first time it is a relatively straight forward exercise.

The tweeters that came with the Pioneer TS-H 1703 speakers were pretty tiny and compared to the stock were no real improvement. So I splashed out (£29) on a pair of Pioner TS-T110 tweeters.
I chose these to try initially as I was not to sure on how much of an improvement I would get, but worth a punt. They had a good spec and the physical size would more or less be a swap out for the stock. As soon as I temporarily connected them the improvement was obvious.

The A pillar trims are removed by pulling towards the centre of the dash starting from the top after removing the grab handle. Also the top of the trim there is fixing that hooks over a metal bracket mounted on the A column. This has to be unhooked first.
You can remove the door seal in that area to see the location of bracket and clips as I did for the first time.


Top of A pillar with trim removed. The bracket in the fore front hooks the trim at the top



Trim removed with the stock tweet in place.
Note the hook bracket top left and the six fixing points each side of the blind opening on trim.




Stock Tweeter in place, its held in place at three points by welding plastics together with a hot iron. These are easily released with the help of a Stanley knife.





The internal dimension of the tweeter mount was just a fraction to small to take the replacement tweeter. This was soon resolved with the help of a knife and coarse glass paper.



New tweeter with grill removed as the trim also has a grill.
This cover is glued in place with a soft glue and with care and patience it can be slowly levered off using a sharp point.
You can also see in this pic the inline high pass filter in place.



After a good blast out with air line.. New tweeter installed and held in with hot melt glue. Also lead soldered to original vw plug.



Trim ready to be reinstalled.
I did add some loose density foam to the inside of trim. It won't enhance the sound in anyway but will contribute a little again to remove road noises.
No sound deadening here either as it has no effect on higher frequencies.


All panels now back in place and the sound is just amazing.

I think the biggest contribution to this upgrade was the sound deadening in the doors.
I chose these speakers, not for extra volume, but a better overall sound. They do ideally match the stock Radio (composition media with 6.33 screen. I don't know its number)
In the past on other vehicles I have spent a fortune on head units, amps and speakers. I have to say that for less than a hundred (excluding deadening)this upgrade is as good as those from the past if you don't want wax shifting volume.

I would like to thank all for the help I have received and contributions to my thread. Also information from other threads.

Cheers
Shadrack