The original idea for the T1 transporter: not Ben Pon? Any info?

[calibusje]

The inventors question: is the vw bus a pre-war model? And found by Porsche? A forgotten patent from 1939 discovered some years ago that seems to anticipate the characteristics of the cult transporter. Does the history of the Bulli drawn by Bernardus Pon in 1947 have to be rewritten?
Pon was a seller, not a designed and will certainly have said that he could use a small utility vehicle and even sketched something like that, but whether he drew from his own idea is doubtful. It is very likely that he had known the pre war Citroën TUB: a small utility van; also Porsche must have know that citroën and therefore draw the chassis for a volkswagen (kdf) based utility vehicle. That 1939 patent has recognizable beetle dna: central tube frame, engine with standing blower box over the rear axle, the whole thing, however, expanded by a steep steering column and a driver's seat directly over the front axle. The patent claim: chassis for motor vehicles, in which the driver's seat is extended to the front to accommodate a large utility or loading area.
So, there is a German patent from 1939. It had a model construction drawing. Fig.1 & 2 a chassis for a small utility vehicle and Fig. 3 for a car... the beetle.
No doubt about it: this is the layout for the transporter that the Dutch importer drew with a few pen stripes in... 1947.

This picture shows a T1 above the Fig. 1 from the patent:

The design of the chassis for the utility vehicle was rejected by 'volkswagen' then due to not being strong enough. All this from an article by AutoBild Klassik from 2016 that I read then and thought I lost the magazine. Found it back today.
There are no more documents at volkswagen referring to this design but they had very quick the chassis for 'Ben Pons drawing'... with the same weaknesses as that of the 1939 design but now they did improve it. More questions: Do they not want Porsche to be known as the designer of the transporter? And if so, why? Porsche themselves apparently don't know anything about it or... don't want to know anymore because it was a rejected design? Could Ben Pon have known about the design in the patent?
I don't know more about this and never read nothing more about it because I couldn't find more. It intrigues me hence the question: does anyone know more about this?
Greetings
Calibusje

 

[Perfectos]

I always believed Dr Porsche was involved heavily with all the VW brands, (German government pre WW2) although the reality of that period in history may well be skewed. (Who knows).
Porsche philosophy, was initially a well engineered cheap to produce design suitable for certain criteria, it is now considered a premium brand that would laterally be dis-associated from the (cheap) VW brand (peoples car example) for obvious marketing reasons.
DR Porsche was the leading engineering input into the German government idealistic designs pre WW2, now Porsche are considered a premium sports car brand, despite the Porsche simplistic engineering principles being adopted (mass produced good engineering principles) being applied to the wider Brand(s) created the environment to “en mass“ VW brand (post war)
Good engineering is good engineering, much of which is still relevant today, I’m not sure you will ever get a truly accurate account of the natural progression of VW / Porsche brand(s) particularly post war , the lines are simply blurred, you may simply get the account that history records (correct or not)
whether Porsche/VW pinched designs from others is and will be open to debate, but it seems entirely possible.
what is clear VW marketed the VW (post war) brand more effectively than others And produced vehicles that people wanted to buy and which were affordable to the masses (which may not be the case today)

 

[calibusje]

I always believed Dr Porsche was involved heavily with all the VW brands, (German government pre WW2) although the reality of that period in history may well be skewed. (Who knows).
Porsche philosophy, was initially a well engineered cheap to produce design suitable for certain criteria, it is now considered a premium brand that would laterally be dis-associated from the (cheap) VW brand (peoples car example) for obvious marketing reasons.
DR Porsche was the leading engineering input into the German government idealistic designs pre WW2, now Porsche are considered a premium sports car brand, despite the Porsche simplistic engineering principles being adopted (mass produced good engineering principles) being applied to the wider Brand(s) created the environment to “en mass“ VW brand (post war)
Good engineering is good engineering, much of which is still relevant today, I’m not sure you will ever get a truly accurate account of the natural progression of VW / Porsche brand(s) particularly post war , the lines are simply blurred, you may simply get the account that history records (correct or not)
whether Porsche/VW pinched designs from others is and will be open to debate, but it seems entirely possible.
what is clear VW marketed the VW (post war) brand more effectively than others And produced vehicles that people wanted to buy and which were affordable to the masses (which may not be the case today)

Thanks for your response; Yes, Porsche was heavenly involved with the model(s): there was no vw brand pre war: it was invented by you know who and Porsche had to create a small, cheap people carrier (the later beetle). He basically started the model line and brand. I mainly want to demonstrate that at 1939 there was also a design for a utility vehicle. I do think that history wants to stick to the story of Ben Pon, of which, by the way, only the drawing exists (in their possession) and import documents and agreements from then but not a single written agreement with volkswagen about the design or anything else of the first transporter that refers to him.
I for myself believe the design of the t1 transporter comes from Porsche. Ben Pon just knew that a small utility vehicle would sell good and drew something that already was designed and that he could have known of.
"The original idea for the T1 van or Volkswagen Type 2 came from the Dutch Volkswagen importer Ben Pon, who drew the first sketches of the van on April 23, 1947." as stated on BenPon.com. This could become highly debatable and that history may well be skewed as you put it.
Porsche designed and engineered many things just like others did for other car brands. Sometimes an invention coincided with that of another. In the case of a small utility vehicle from the patent of 1939: that could have been his own idea or the intended creation for a competition for the citroën TUB. That we will also never know.