Two Interesting Vans

[James]

Two interesting vans are up in E Bay at the moment.

The first is this interesting one

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VOLKSWAGEN-T4 ... 43b8250f49

Converted RHD Westy, looks like a non standard colour but I take it that it is a factory colour? Full conversion it seems to RHD, even down to the wipers.

Any thoughts on this.

The second van probably does not have a place on this forum but curiously it does.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Volkswagen-T3 ... 5080196%26

The T25 Atlantic. As I am sure some of you know, the final Westy T25's were split into two models - the California - designed for summer camper and the higher spec Atlantic (much rarer) for all round the year camping. We have not had a T25 California owner (yet!) but the Atlantic is interesting because one of its major differences over the California was the night heater, it's probably more closely related to the modern T5 California SE then the T25 California.

Anyway - just some interesting vans

James

 

[choplee]

I must admit i have had 2 T25 Westy California buses approach me since the T4's joined up at Kent vw meets and want to join the California forum. They where slightly put out ,as they rightly said that they see that T4's have a section on our your forum and they are the same as us being a Westfalia with a a california style spec .....
I didn't really know what to say to them ,as they were correct and so i couldn't argue the t4 westy cali corner like i could the T5 Cali corner ....

they may even have joined i don't know ..

 

[TwentyOneThirtyFive]

Converted RHD Westy, looks like a non standard colour but I take it that it is a factory colour? Full conversion it seems to RHD, even down to the wipers.

Yep, that was a factory colour.

That's a lot of work to convert. pedal box, dash, steering components, air ducting, engine bay locations for air filter at least. wiring loom. Guess it's a transplant from a scrapped RHD van, but still.

Also, LHD clutches are cable, RHD are hydrolic?

But I guess people get hung up about the LHD thing. I have more problems going back to my RHD car - forever trying to open the door instead of changing gear in that...

The T25 Atlantic....one of its major differences over the California was the night heater

And double glazing (did the Jokers have this as well?). If I'd been allowed a T25 I'd have gone for an Atlantic.

And as an aside, if I'd found that wealthy aunt I never knew about and had just expired, a Syncro Atlantic. Just silly money: http://campervanculture.com/2012/10/vw-atlantic-syncro-for-sale/. But all kinds of Awesome.

dan

 

[James]

Converted RHD Westy, looks like a non standard colour but I take it that it is a factory colour? Full conversion it seems to RHD, even down to the wipers.

Yep, that was a factory colour.

That's a lot of work to convert. pedal box, dash, steering components, air ducting, engine bay locations for air filter at least. wiring loom. Guess it's a transplant from a scrapped RHD van, but still.

Also, LHD clutches are cable, RHD are hydrolic?

But I guess people get hung up about the LHD thing. I have more problems going back to my RHD car - forever trying to open the door instead of changing gear in that...

The T25 Atlantic....one of its major differences over the California was the night heater

And double glazing (did the Jokers have this as well?). If I'd been allowed a T25 I'd have gone for an Atlantic.

And as an aside, if I'd found that wealthy aunt I never knew about and had just expired, a Syncro Atlantic. Just silly money: http://campervanculture.com/2012/10/vw-atlantic-syncro-for-sale/. But all kinds of Awesome.

dan

I'd have kept it LHD - think it adds to the van and the conversion and its quality is unknown. LHD does not really bother me.

The California and Atlantic T25's replaced the Joker models - and the Atlantic was the only T25 from factory to feature the double glazing (I believe)

I have seen that bus for sale before

James

 

[Jcali]

I'd have kept it LHD - think it adds to the van and the conversion and its quality is unknown. LHD does not really bother me.

The California and Atlantic T25's replaced the Joker models - and the Atlantic was the only T25 from factory to feature the double glazing (I believe)

I have seen that bus for sale before

James

Double glazing (plastic) was a factory option on T25 Jokers, mine has it. It works well, but is prone to cracking with age. Fortunately I bought a full spare set with my van

Cheers, j

 

[James]

I'd have kept it LHD - think it adds to the van and the conversion and its quality is unknown. LHD does not really bother me.

The California and Atlantic T25's replaced the Joker models - and the Atlantic was the only T25 from factory to feature the double glazing (I believe)

I have seen that bus for sale before

James

Double glazing (plastic) was a factory option on T25 Jokers, mine has it. It works well, but is prone to cracking with age. Fortunately I bought a full spare set with my van

Cheers, j

Ah - I thought that might be the case - nice campers the Jokers

James

 

[choplee]

correct me if i'm wrong then Mr custard ,as i'm not upto speed on these things totally....is that the T25 Joker is a westfalia build bus like the Atlantic & cali model that westy pushed out later in the t25 life ..??

 

[TwentyOneThirtyFive]

Here' is the Westfalia model history of theT25/T3 (from http://westfaliat3.info). The California and Atlantic only appeared in the last few years of T25/T3 production.

European Model History

1979 - 1983 The Aircooled Volkswagen Westfalia Joker
1982 - 1985 Volkswagen Westfalia Sport Joker
1983 -1990 Volkswagen Westfalia Mosaik Joker (Self Install Furniture and Fittings)
1984 -1986 The Watercooled Volkswagen Westfalia Joker
1984 Volkswagen Westfalia Jubilee Joker
1984 - 1985 The Watercooled Volkswagen Westfalia Club Joker
1985 - 1986 The Watercooled Volkswagen Westfalia Club Joker
1985 - 1986 Volkswagen Westfalia Top Joker
1985 - 1986 Volkswagen Westfalia Joker Syncro (4x4)
1986 - 1990 The Watercooled Volkswagen Westfalia Joker (Grey Interior)
1986 - 1990 Volkswagen Westfalia Club Joker (Grey Interior)
1988 Westfalia Club Van
1988 - 1990 The Watercooled Volkswagen Westfalia California
1988 - 1990 The Watercooled Volkswagen Westfalia Atlantic

 

[choplee]

is this a similar pattern of which the t4 westy took like the t25 .....??? using the cali spec westfalia in the last years of the t4 body run ..??

 

[TwentyOneThirtyFive]

All the Westfalia T4s were Californias. They obviously liked the name

The T4 model history (from http://westfaliat4.info):

1990 - 1993 The Volkswagen VW Westfalia T4 Transporter California Camper
1992 - 1994 The Volkswagen VW Westfalia T4 Transporter California Club Camper
1993 - 1995 The Volkswagen VW Westfalia T4 Transporter California Coach Camper
1995 - 1996 The Volkswagen VW Westfalia T4 Transporter California Coach Camper (Updated Kactus Interior Model)
1996 - 2003 The Volkswagen VW Westfalia T4 Transporter California Coach Camper (Updated Long Nose Model)
1993 - 1994 The Volkswagen VW Westfalia T4 Transporter California Tour Camper
1994 - 1997 The Volkswagen VW Westfalia T4 Transporter California Highway Camper
1994 - 1996 The Volkswagen VW Westfalia T4 Transporter California Exclusive Camper
1996 - 2003 The Volkswagen VW Westfalia T4 Transporter California Exclusive Camper (Updated model)
1995 - 1996 The Volkswagen VW Westfalia T4 Transporter California Biker Camper
1996 - 1997 The Volkswagen VW Westfalia T4 Transporter California Beach Camper
1997 - 1998 The Volkswagen VW Westfalia T4 Transporter California Joker Camper
1998 - 1999 The Volkswagen VW Westfalia T4 Transporter California Blue Camper
1999 - 2000 The Volkswagen VW Westfalia T4 Transporter California Advantage Camper
2000 - 2001 The Volkswagen VW Westfalia T4 Transporter California Generation Camper
2001 - 2002 The Volkswagen VW Westfalia T4 Transporter California Event Camper
2003 - 2004 The Volkswagen VW Westfalia T4 Transporter California Freestyle Camper

Most are SWB have the side kitchen layout, while the Club is LWB has a rear kitchen and the Exclusive is LWB and has mid kitchen and a rear bathroom (the new Westfalia Club Joker VW based on the T5 looks a lot like the Exclusive)

Think all have double glazing. Some have the sliding windows, where only the rear have is double glazed, some have perspex like double glazing on the middle windows, more similar to the T25/T3s. Some have a solid 'panel van' section instead of a window behind the wardrobe, some have a double glazed window.

In early vans. if you didn't buy the eberspacher heater option you got 1 leisure battery. If you got the diesel/petrol eberspacher heater, you got 2 leisure batteries. Most I've seen for sale have the heater. In later vans I think they moved to a single larger capacity leisure battery.

The early SWB vans have denatured alcohol stoves (meths), the gas cooker was an option.

The SWB van came with either pop top, compact high top or smurf high top. The LWB vans were smurf top only I think?

Engines were 2.4D, 1.9TD, 2.0 or 2.5 petrol on early models, the 2.5TDI was introduced later, replacing the 2.4D.

dan

 

[choplee]

I must admit westfalia where very busy with a steady flow of vans into their factory from Vw for many years up until the t5 when they parted company and the vw California was born ....

I did have an early bay westy that made way for the Cali last year .

 

[James]

correct me if i'm wrong then Mr custard ,as i'm not upto speed on these things totally....is that the T25 Joker is a westfalia build bus like the Atlantic & cali model that westy pushed out later in the t25 life ..??

That's correct and the T25 multivans.

The only VW in house camper has been the California although there are rumours that during the 1980's VW did produce some prototypes

They use the California name I guess because it is a link to the past. VW as you know is shameless when to comes to heritage whether its adverts referencing splitties or the new Golf which simply 'evolves'.

Everything pre T5 is a westy California and then once that stopped VW carried on the Campers and Multivans using ideas developed over the previous 20 years. Using the California name was just a continuation of that and possibly the reason for carrying on the California name from the T25 was because although the Atlantic had more kit, by the time the T4 come along much of that kit was expected so it was just easier I guess to make variants on the T4 westy but keep the California name.

Pre facelift Calis in LHD were availae in a more basic no night heater Trendline spec but kept the Cali name. I guess these days the Beach occupies that space in the sense that it is a more basic Cali

That said and to confuse it further America both T25 and T4's wee available with a weekender package. This was basically a multivan with a pop top and in the case of the t4 (eurovan) a clever fridge under one of the jump seats. This is probably the idea VW took for the Beach.


James

 

[2into1]

I like the T4 Generation the same (justwesty's) seller has up at £24k. Only 46k miles, great colour and air-con.

I like it because it looks untouched...no mods....except for the stereo which is easily replaced.

Are the T25's he's got (he's added another Atlantic in Red today) standard spec? I'm assuming the big wheels and lowering (maybe bodykit too) are all 'improvements' after it left the factory.

I've just noticed the T4 has 2 Eberspacher Diesel Heaters - Cab & Engine. Is the Engine one for stopping fuel freezing?

 

[James]

I like the T4 Generation the same (justwesty's) seller has up at £24k. Only 46k miles, great colour and air-con.

I like it because it looks untouched...no mods....except for the stereo which is easily replaced.

Are the T25's he's got (he's added another Atlantic in Red today) standard spec? I'm assuming the big wheels and lowering (maybe bodykit too) are all 'improvements' after it left the factory.

I've just noticed the T4 has 2 Eberspacher Diesel Heaters - Cab & Engine. Is the Engine one for stopping fuel freezing?

I think Justwestys are a bit expensive - I almost bought a T25 through them. They do have some lovely vans, and of course, a van is worth what someone is prepared to pay for it and that makes any opinion mine included pretty meaningless.

Justwestys work on the idea that the T4 is a classic vehicle. They used to sell a lot of T25's and have, perhaps rightly so moved onto the late spec high end T4 Westys. I think the T4 is good but not a classic for me, not really, it can be nice to own a rare spec vehicle but I wouldn't pay for someone else's idea of what constitues a classic. If you could get them for the same or similar price, what would the advantage actually be of owning a late T4 Westy Cali over an early T5 VW Cali?

I know people like to suck through their teeth and go, oh they don't make them like used to, and that's when VW made proper vans etc etc, I experienced this many times as I stood outside the garage of another so called VW expert drinking luke warm tea whilst they dismantle my Vanagon, only to tell me they are really air cooled guys. But i don't really buy that, I think that's just misconceptions and prejudices.

Despite the circumstances around how I could afford my Beach, I am fortunate to own such a vehicle. I've done the older van thing, I suffered with my Vanagon, once you have driven/owned a modern van, it can be hard to go back unless you have the time or skills to look after one.

The T25 Atlantic is quite rare in comparison to other T25 models - I don't know what the standard wheels were but they look aftermarket.

I would not pay 24k for any T4 - I'd just look to see if I could buy or import an early T5 LHD Cali. I would also add that the final T4 Event's and Generations had several stereo options including 2 different sat nav systems. I haven't seen any of those come to the UK yet, that's just an observation because I looked an importing the T4 Multivan2 with the rail system that never came to the UK and at the risk of raising an old and painful subject some of those T4's came with factory xenons.

To be fair Westy Campers which is what T4's are have never been for me. I've always liked the Multivan layout and that is why I got a Beach.

James

 

[choplee]

I don't mind some of the westfalia camper conversions in t2 ,t25 and t4 disguise,but wouldn't say i like all of them by any means .Westy do build their conversions to last, as I've had one on a t2 and they are fairly practical...
So where westy stopped converting and broke partnership Vw picked up and created the VW California ..

 

[TwentyOneThirtyFive]

Here's another innovative solution to the RHD T4 Westy Conundrum...

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VW-T4-CARAVEL ... f0e&_uhb=1

 

[2into1]

Is that guy on ebay (last post) really saying there is NO access through a side loading door? Surely nobody would do that would they?
I think he's saying he's fitted side units from LHD (so they fit on the left hand side) fitted to a RHD van with a single sliding door on the left?
Say it isn't so!

 

[James]

Is that guy on ebay (last post) really saying there is NO access through a side loading door? Surely nobody would do that would they?
I think he's saying he's fitted side units from LHD (so they fit on the left hand side) fitted to a RHD van with a single sliding door on the left?
Say it isn't so!

Isn't it a twin slider and he's just fitted the units down the left side leaving that door useless? After all if you approach the idea that you want to make a RHD Westy then you're not or unlikely to find a RHD van with one sliding door on the drivers side.

I've put a bid in and if I win it I shall be bringing it to Cali's on the farm

James

 

[2into1]

James, I hope it is a twin slider, but the way he describes it "no access through the slide loading door" (ie singular) makes me wonder. Certainly worth checking before the bidding get's serious. Not the best written advert I've seen.

I don't know much about Caravelle's (it may show!)...are they all twin sliders?

 

[James]

James, I hope it is a twin slider, but the way he describes it "no access through the slide loading door" (ie singular) makes me wonder. Certainly worth checking before the bidding get's serious. Not the best written advert I've seen.

I don't know much about Caravelle's (it may show!)...are they all twin sliders?

Ah not sure there with T4's - if it started life as a Velle I would assume so. All T5 Caravelles are twin sliders, well in the UK (not so in other markets).


James

 

[TwentyOneThirtyFive]

Interesting that there are no direct photo's of the right hand side of the van, but in one of them you can see that there is NO slider* on the rear quarter so I don't believe it is a twin slider.

Which begs the question, what have they filled the gap with?

dan
*I have no idea what the real name for that bit is, but it's the black bit that the door slides along.

 

[pabloalfa76]

So do you have to get in and out, Dukes of Hazard style.

I bet someone bids on this without reading the advert properly. That will be a nice surprise when they go and collect it!

 

[2into1]

I started the theory about this 'no-door' van but it is just a theory, but it appears to be gathering strength! I used to love Dukes of Hazard.

 

[TwentyOneThirtyFive]

I'm not sure the window entry into a T4 will look quite so cool... especially if Uncle Jessie has just put the kettle on.

Another curiosity - the fog light is on the wrong side. Should be an MOT failure.

It's all very strange.
dan

 

[James]

Interesting that in one shot to obscure the side of the van the drivers door is open!

Foglight on the wrong side is normally a LHD issue it's something you have to change.

Very mysterious.

The odd thing is of there is no sliding door on the drivers side and only on the passenger side then is argue that this isn't a Velle but a penal van. Maybe the seller thinks this is a Velle or was originally

The advert should be clearer

James