Warranty status changes to just 'goodwill'

[Theodora]

Bought my California Beach in March 2019 and discovered paint rubbing/peeling problem on front-edge of pop-up roof opening in June 2021 (so well within the initial 3-year warranty period). Took to Martins in Basingstoke who opened warranty claim. It's a long story (which I've recently updated on separate thread) but after 4 repair attempts at specialist body/paint repair shop, H&L Motors (last one in December 2021) the problem is unresolved and I'm back to square-one. VW Customer Relations at VW Commercial Vehicles have been involved since just before the 4th repair. No one has ever got to root of the problem to establish what caused the problem in the first place - which is now what I'm pushing for before any more repair attempts. Everyone at VW agrees.

But while Martins are my local VW van centre, they don't sell California's and so don't feel they have the technical skills to understand the cause. So VW Customer Relations asked me to take it to another van centre who actually sold California's (and who should, therefore, have that expertise). So a month ago Lookers in Guildford had a look but couldn't see anything obvious. It was only at this stage that I was informed that, as it was beyond the initial 3-year warranty period (that expired March this year) Lookers had only been investigating under a 'goodwill' agreement. When I challenged this (on the basis that I'd raised the issue within the correct timeframe but it had never been resolved) I was told that another franchised dealership can't take over a warranty claim from another dealership. So I went back to Martins to say my only option must be for them to continue to resolve it. But now they say that anything they do moving forward can only be covered under 'goodwill' as well. This can't be right, on the basis that all VW parties (Martins, Lookers, VW Customer Relations and even SMG in Tonbridge where I bought it) have all been aware since immediately after the 4th repair attempt last December that it was unsuccessful and therefore, I assumed (hoped?), that the original warranty case/claim remained open.

VW Customer Relations next suggestion is that I take it back to SMG, but I assume that, while VW will fund that investigation, it will still only be under this goodwill arrangement. While no one (as yet) is refusing to continue to look at the problem (15 months on) - I assume so long as VW Customer Relations continue to financially support/reimburse the dealerships - this leaves me vulnerable to that goodwill being pulled (or restricted), e.g. if no one can find the root cause, if it takes too long, gets too expensive or if I become a difficult customer pushing for a conclusion or even wanting to reject the vehicle.

Does anyone know where I stand legally please? e.g. is it correct that if a repair is not resolved fixed within the first 3 years, that the status then changes to being "out of warranty" and having to rely only on "goodwill"? And if I do now take it to SMG, am I capitulating by effectively agreeing to this and effectively allowing Martins to wash their hands of the problem?

I can't believe this is right. Otherwise a warranty issue raised a week before the 3-year period is up - but not resolved on first attempt 2 weeks later - would be then be classed as being beyond warranty cover and fall to just the discretion of the dealership (and/or VW Customer Relations) to fund or not. I did take out a VW extended warranty when I bought the vehicle and I'm looking into this, but this might only relate to new problem claims (and might not cover bodywork/paint issues anyway).

Do I need to talk to a solicitor?

 

[DMC]

Bought my California Beach in March 2019 and discovered paint rubbing/peeling problem on front-edge of pop-up roof opening in June 2021 (so well within the initial 3-year warranty period). Took to Martins in Basingstoke who opened warranty claim. It's a long story (which I've recently updated on separate thread) but after 4 repair attempts at specialist body/paint repair shop, H&L Motors (last one in December 2021) the problem is unresolved and I'm back to square-one. VW Customer Relations at VW Commercial Vehicles have been involved since just before the 4th repair. No one has ever got to root of the problem to establish what caused the problem in the first place - which is now what I'm pushing for before any more repair attempts. Everyone at VW agrees.

But while Martins are my local VW van centre, they don't sell California's and so don't feel they have the technical skills to understand the cause. So VW Customer Relations asked me to take it to another van centre who actually sold California's (and who should, therefore, have that expertise). So a month ago Lookers in Guildford had a look but couldn't see anything obvious. It was only at this stage that I was informed that, as it was beyond the initial 3-year warranty period (that expired March this year) Lookers had only been investigating under a 'goodwill' agreement. When I challenged this (on the basis that I'd raised the issue within the correct timeframe but it had never been resolved) I was told that another franchised dealership can't take over a warranty claim from another dealership. So I went back to Martins to say my only option must be for them to continue to resolve it. But now they say that anything they do moving forward can only be covered under 'goodwill' as well. This can't be right, on the basis that all VW parties (Martins, Lookers, VW Customer Relations and even SMG in Tonbridge where I bought it) have all been aware since immediately after the 4th repair attempt last December that it was unsuccessful and therefore, I assumed (hoped?), that the original warranty case/claim remained open.

VW Customer Relations next suggestion is that I take it back to SMG, but I assume that, while VW will fund that investigation, it will still only be under this goodwill arrangement. While no one (as yet) is refusing to continue to look at the problem (15 months on) - I assume so long as VW Customer Relations continue to financially support/reimburse the dealerships - this leaves me vulnerable to that goodwill being pulled (or restricted), e.g. if no one can find the root cause, if it takes too long, gets too expensive or if I become a difficult customer pushing for a conclusion or even wanting to reject the vehicle.

Does anyone know where I stand legally please? e.g. is it correct that if a repair is not resolved fixed within the first 3 years, that the status then changes to being "out of warranty" and having to rely only on "goodwill"? And if I do now take it to SMG, am I capitulating by effectively agreeing to this and effectively allowing Martins to wash their hands of the problem?

I can't believe this is right. Otherwise a warranty issue raised a week before the 3-year period is up - but not resolved on first attempt 2 weeks later - would be then be classed as being beyond warranty cover and fall to just the discretion of the dealership (and/or VW Customer Relations) to fund or not. I did take out a VW extended warranty when I bought the vehicle and I'm looking into this, but this might only relate to new problem claims (and might not cover bodywork/paint issues anyway).

Do I need to talk to a solicitor?

I would record your complaint and concerns with the Motor Ombudsman at the motor ombudsman.org and let them help/monitor your case and if necessary step in on your behalf.

 

[DMC]

I would record your complaint and concerns with the Motor Ombudsman at the motor ombudsman.org and let them help/monitor your case and if necessary step in on your behalf.

https://www.themotorombudsman.org/ - this is the link to their website.

 

[Theodora]

Many thanks. I did speak to them briefly last week, but haven't formally lodged a complaint - yet. They said they could take 6 months to respond! And that's only after I've given the respondents 8 weeks to reply with a final response. I was trying to get advice on who I actually have a case against, e.g. it it SMG who I bought it from, Martins who initiated the original warranty claim, VW Commercial Vehicles or VW Warranty Dept. The person I spoke to didn't know. I might try again and speak to someone new.

 

[Ozzy Pete]

Normally any repair paint work done by or at the instruction of VW has a 2 year warranty. So that would be 2 years after any repair was carried out. It’s the garage that carries out the work that is liable for faults and not normally VW.
The same thing happened with the California roof paint bubbling and the front panel. VW would instruct a sub contractor to do any repair work and pay them for the work to be done correctly and any comeback would be with the sub contractor and not VW. One of the reasons why VW is finding It more and more difficult to find sub contractors to carry out repairs on vehicles with a known fault history because any comeback is entirely with them.

 

[Theodora]

Many thanks. But unfortunately it's not a simple as a poor workmanship or materials issue. After 4 attempts and VW, like me, assuming it was, VW Commercial Vehicles have categorically confirmed in writing that the sub-contractor (H&L) have done everything properly and as requested by they technical (at least on the last attempt). There was some debate about the first one, but it was agreed that H&L had been underfunded by VW which only allowed for a localised front/top edge repair. Since the independent inspection/report concluded a more comprehensive repair job was needed (i.e. whole front/top aluminium pod - from the windscreen back to underneath the rubber seal - with a new seal replaced), this has been done (and H&L took photos of the process for proof).

The problem is that all are now of the same opinion that there is no point in continuing to "put lipstick on a pig" until someone gets to the root of the problem and establishes exactly what caused the problem in the first place (i.e. before it went to H&L for repair) and which continues to be a problem. If I didn't do it, it hasn't been in a crash, it can't be via 'external influence' (because it's effectively hidden with the roof closed), can't be via 'insufficient care', etc - then what caused/is causing the problem? I'm open to theories, because no one at VW has offered one yet. My only conclusion is that it must've been an inherent geometrical build/assembly fault at manufacture, causing the pop-up front-rubber seal/gasket too much pressure and or friction on that top front edge.

 

[Doorbundle]

Principles of consumer law – quality and consumer rights - Legislation and business - Edexcel - GCSE Business Revision - Edexcel - BBC Bitesize

Learn about and revise legislation and business with BBC Bitesize GCSE Business – Edexcel.

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Your first redress should be with the person / company that sold you the goods.
Also here: https://blog.moneysavingexpert.com/2013/10/how-long-do-you-have-to-take-faulty-goods-back/
I hope this helps:

 

[Theodora]

Many thanks for these. As your first article points out: "Where a fault develops within the first six months, it is presumed that the fault was there when the consumer took ownership of the product, unless the business can prove otherwise. After six months, the responsibility for proving that the fault was there when they took ownership falls on the consumer". Because I only became aware of the problem just after 2 years (as I didn't use/raise the roof during COVID) the onus appears to be on me to prove it was an inherent build/assembly fault. This would require hiring a motor technician expert in California pop-up roof manufacturing with possible access to VW's Computer Aided Design specs, measurements, tolerances, etc and laser accurate measuring equipment (e.g. g. to establish if original fixing screws holes are, maybe, 5mm too far forward or down, resulting in an interference fit, etc). Not sure where to start with this one.

Also, can I suggest you all open your roofs, climb-up and check your front-edges for similar problem(s). I only noticed it when I saw those clear plastic protective strips poking-out through the split-line/gap (dislodged to rubbing/friction/vibration/etc???) e.g. the peeling/blistering paint is effectively hidden when the roof is closed. I can't believe I'm the only unlucky soul to have this problem!

 

[Mollymoo]

Many thanks for these. As your first article points out: "Where a fault develops within the first six months, it is presumed that the fault was there when the consumer took ownership of the product, unless the business can prove otherwise. After six months, the responsibility for proving that the fault was there when they took ownership falls on the consumer". Because I only became aware of the problem just after 2 years (as I didn't use/raise the roof during COVID) the onus appears to be on me to prove it was an inherent build/assembly fault. This would require hiring a motor technician expert in California pop-up roof manufacturing with possible access to VW's Computer Aided Design specs, measurements, tolerances, etc and laser accurate measuring equipment (e.g. g. to establish if original fixing screws holes are, maybe, 5mm too far forward or down, resulting in an interference fit, etc). Not sure where to start with this one.

Also, can I suggest you all open your roofs, climb-up and check your front-edges for similar problem(s). I only noticed it when I saw those clear plastic protective strips poking-out through the split-line/gap (dislodged to rubbing/friction/vibration/etc???) e.g. the peeling/blistering paint is effectively hidden when the roof is closed. I can't believe I'm the only unlucky soul to have this problem!

Sorry to hear about all your problems.

When opening my roof last weekend a rubber grommet fell out from one of the metal support arms. After checking the other side I noticed the grommet was not in its hole but stuck to the lower arm. I refitted both and wondered if this would make a difference to the closed position? A long shot but have you checked your grommets are in position?

 

[Theodora]

Many thanks Mollymoo - I'll take a look at the weekend (if it's dry!)