Water seeping through bellows

[OConnors]

Hi
We have a 2017 California and the water bleeds through the bellows side panels very badly. Upstairs is unuseable in wind/rain. My dealer can not replicate the problem with his hosepipe and therefor says the problem is unwarrantable so I must pay £1100 to buy new bellows. He does not know why the problem occurs. Has anybody else experienced this to such an extent and has anybody had the bellows replaced on warranty as a consequence. If you had I would like to use your experience to demonstrate inconsistencies throughout the network. I found an old post from 2012 where this happened. Thanks in advance and if anybody has any ideas why it is happening then they would be
Much appreciated.

 

[ArunAlec]

I’d keep trying to replicate with a hose, using the different spray settings. Does it occur on all of the canvas or just one panel? Maybe a faulty batch of material?

 

[Amarillo]

Condensation - occurs in rain because of the temperature differential, and also because in rain you have all windows closed so poor internal ventilation.

Cures-
Roof topper
Improved ventilation


Follow my blog: www.au-revoir.eu

 

[Alan Andrews]

With these photos it appears to be a clear warranty claim.

The canvas can bleed if something is touching the canvas wall. Is this a possibility?

If you are convinced that the canvas is faulty, then it might be worth exploring a neutral test centre where the canvas can be tested for seepage and a full and proper report provided.

If vw still deny any responsibility, then you have the option of a court claim or magazine article. The threat is likely to bring vw to their senses to avoid bad publicity.

 

[Volkywagen]

You have solid evidence with the pictures that it isn’t waterproof and is leaking. I would go back and ask that they are Replaced under warranty and stand your ground. If they can fob you off they will do. Might be easier alternatively to buy a topper for wet weather camps.

 

[flying banana]

If its not been wet many times it may improve over time. It could be condensation especially from Cooking or boiling water. I found heavy sideways lake district type rain can come through eventually... Especially if you touch the sides with something like a quilt or sleeping bag. It could also be faulty but I'm not sure. In bad weather a topper is a must for me.

 

[Brembo]

View attachment 38353

Hi, had the same problem,dealer could not replicate with hose pipe.
However they did not hesitate in replacing bellows under warranty.

 

[Wobble’s Mum]

This happened to us when we took a dealership Cali to Scotland last year.
It was NOT condensation as it occurred in one panel only and nothing was touching it.
It seemed to be occurring due to driving rain and wind and only happened the once whilst we were away, despite most nights being bloody awful weather wise.

I read somewhere that you should coat the canvas with water before taking it camping, as the fibres tighten once they have got wet for the first time but unsure how true this might be.

I would pursue a warranty claim if it is a continuous issue as they are clearly not fit for purpose!

Hopefully someone who has already taken that route will comment as I know I’ve seen it on here!

 

[OConnors]

Hi Brembo. That is exactly the same as ours! Definitely not condensation please could you tell me what dealership it was and how long ago. VW and my dealership are adamant it is not a warranty issue but the have to show continuity of service throughout the country you might just save me £1000! Thanks in advance.

 

[Brembo]

Hi the OConnors,
Took loads of photo's of the water ingress,and emailed them to dealer,(Lookers,Baillieston in Glasgow),they contacted VW,and bellows were replaced within a couple of months.
Hope this helps,
Regards,
Dougie.

 

[larrylamb]

Hi Brembo. That is exactly the same as ours! Definitely not condensation please could you tell me what dealership it was and how long ago. VW and my dealership are adamant it is not a warranty issue but the have to show continuity of service throughout the country you might just save me £1000! Thanks in advance.

Looks like you buy quite a few Cali's/Transporters, I would be looking to change my dealer if he is reluctant to help when there is a problem.

 

[Perfectos]

Is the canvas fit for the purpose it was designed for?

I would suggest that VW specially designed the canvas to keep water out of the sleeping / habitation area.

The fact that not every canvas leaks like this is proof alone, that the problem is specific to the particular canvas.

All mass manufacturing processes are not perfect, and therefore you would naturally expect a small number of problems to exist, and for VW to acknowledge when a fault occurs or is apparent!

For example:
If you bought a tent that was designed to keep out the rain, and was subsequently not water proof, you would be within your rights to return it to the retailer as “not fit for purpose” or “faulty goods” and you would either be entitled to replacement or refund under U.K. law.
The retailer then claims the costs of replacement or repair from the manufacturer.

In this instance the canvas is part of a wider product, designed as a “camper” by the very nature and specific description of the product and the intended use.

you have a claim under either of the “descriptions” of “faulty” or “not fit for purpose” given above and by the fact that the product does not do what it is intended to do.

I would suggest a frank conversation with the service manager, to point out the facts and your rights under U.K. consumer law.

Failing that a call to trading standards and a strong letter to VWUK. And look for a dealer who will cooperate and who want your future business.

 

[Buddy]

Back in 2012 we had the same problem. Carrs of Exeter replaced the bellows under warranty but the second one was no better. They eventually gave us a goretex inner liner that was both waterproof and added insulation. We now have a 2010 Cali with the older canvas material which is completely waterproof. While Carrs did not hesitate to offer solutions under warranty I did involve Trading Standards on the basis that VW advertise the Cali as sleeping four people which is misleading if you can't sleep in the roof in wet weather. Contacting Trading Standards may help you get a better response from the dealer.

 

[Perfectos]

Excerpt from Cali brochure
“You can count on us long after your purchase “ we’ll fix any defect”

I would not call a “ warm cosy” “ comfortable bed” one that was wet on cold when used as expected?

Unless Of course I live on the streets ! But then again I would not be living on the streets if I had £50k+ to spend on a “camper van” that has a “sixty year heritage” with a “cosy bed”

That’s insane stance for the dealer to take, Let alone considering the additional damage the damp will do to the rest of the van and it’s fittings, which will result from the faulty goods they sold you if they fail to correct the issue you have made them aware of which they will be / are liable for !

 

[daisyduke]

i had same issue with my bellows on a wet and windy night. I'd left the roof up to see how it faired. Wasn't good. The dogs who slept on the front seats were wet ( thankfully they had their coats on, so they were fine) but inside camper van was wet not damp and was not condensation. Local dealership( Exeter) did the hose test- waste of time and i was told it was fine. I decided after a posting on here where some people thought it needed to get soaked in order to work/ others mentioned just protecting it/ using toppers. I have a topper but too much hassle for the odd night so never use it. I did however go down the route of using marine quality waterproof protector and painted it on. Not been in same conditions to 'test it' but feel more confident not going to be soaked inside again. VW state water resistant not water proof.
The fact they sell/ make toppers kind of says not water proof but when you spend big bucks i think extremely poor for it not to be weather tight and withstand some wind and rain.
There does seem to be a mix of people with the issue and others not. Is that due to poor quality on some or lower expectations from some people?? i figured by the time VW take it, replace it, damage something else while doing it, the amount of hassle and time without it i just did my own fix- this was nearing end of warranty period but was within at the time. I think the fact we have to prove the issue, dealership has to then replicate it, when that isn't achieved the dealership is then in 'rock and hard place' with VW. Some dealerships value customer relations and have bitten the bullet and swallowed the cost i'm guessing?

 

[Meoncoast]

Never had such an issue with T5 or T6 bellows. Also never had or used a topper. I would discuss directly with VW HQ.

 

[OConnors]

The official outcome is that the dealer carrs of Exeter say this is not a warrantable issue so they cannot submit a warranty claim in case they don’t get paid by VW. It doesn’t meet warranty criteria. They admit it leaks and the solution is new bellows. VW customer service are terrible. Full of cliches like we need to be guided by the dealer. I may as well not even have spoke. To them. They have suggested I could try another dealer but why should I. All dealers should be equal. They have also told me I can not escalate the case above my case manager so that is the end of it. I have evidenced similar problems and been told all cases are different etc. Really fed up. Considering options.

 

[Perfectos]

Have you asked the dealer to put their findings in an email, stating that the bellows are clearly faulty And in their opinion the remedial action required is fitting new bellows.?

Clearly a call to trading standards would be in order “ Not fit for purpose” & “faulty goods” would spring to mind.

Your contract is with the dealer not VWUK, it is the dealers responsibility to carry out the remedial action required, what the dealer does regarding claiming the cost from Vw is not your concern.

Good luck

 

[Kernowboy]

Your contract is with the dealer not VWUK, it is the dealers responsibility to carry out the remedial action required, what the dealer does regarding claiming the cost from Vw is not your concern.

So how does that work when you take the van to a dealer other than the one you bought it from? Surely the warranty is provided by VW and not the dealer, thus you can take it to any dealer for the work to be assessed and carried out. I don't see why it's the dealers responsibility to carry the work out if they aren't going to be reimbursed for the work by VW.

 

[Perfectos]

The dealer says it’s not warrantable, so cannot submit a claim to vw, but it is faulty !

Vw squarely put it back to dealers as the seller!

Consumer law says the contract is with the seller, not the manufacturer.

It is up to the seller to sort out the issue with the purchaser and them sort out any issues with the manufacturer. i.e the seller has the responsibility to sort out the issue regardless.

Example, you buy an electrical item from Dixon’s, item develops a fault within warranty period, not necessary the period stated by the seller, you bring the item back to the seller, the seller either repairs or replaces the item, as is required under consumer law.
The seller deals with the manufacturer (their supplier)

 

[Perfectos]

https://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/advice/what-do-i-do-if-i-have-a-faulty-product



The after ingress has been acknowledged as a defect in manufacturer or workmanship, refer to the above printed in the sales brochure.

Vwuk do not carry out the repair themselves, they use the franchised seller to carry out all repairs, the seller claims from Vw under the specific terms of their agreement.

https://www.volkswagen-vans.co.uk/en/service-accessories/warranties.html

Importantly I noted the additional damage that may occur(post 14) this would not be covered under warranty, so it is important to state the case robustly stating that spadditional damage will occur as a result of the dealer taking no action, which may result in legal action against the dealer failing to carry out the prescribed remedial action required under the warranty Conditions

From Vw website listed above : (post 23)
“We would ask that you report any defect to a Van Centre as soon as it becomes apparent. Any consequential damage arising from the continued use of a vehicle with a defect may not be covered under warranty.”

It needs sorting PDQ by the dealer or a dealer !

Ask VwUK to suggest a dealer whom you may approach ? As the dealer whom you bought the vehicle form refuses to carry out the works, despite the clear consequential damage that “will” occur.
make sure your dealer knows you are doing this by copying them into the email !

 

[OConnors]

This has been a right eye opener for me. Dealers must repair things under strict warranty criteria and then they bill VW. If it doesn’t fit warranty criteria they cannot claim. So if you can’t replicate a fault, 4 hours of wind and rain, then they won’t do the work as they can’t claim. VW customer services expect the dealer to pick up a goodwill tag. This is where things get sketchy. Some dealers will claim through VW fradulantly saying something else is wrong with the roof fabric but why should they? Others are more honest. Some will show goodwill others won’t. I have been asked by customer services to take my van to another dealer in Glasgow who has replaced a roof like mine. They will pay my fuel. Nothing for 1500 miles wear and tear or two days labour plus accommodation! How stupid is that. All dealers need to be equal. I am also disappointed how my roof is clearly faulty but neither my dealer or UK customer services have either the interest or clout to go to the warranty dept at VW and tell them they have to repair this. Photographic evidence should be enough. There are a lot of politics at play and I feel as a customer I am a pawn in the middle of everything. I have to keep interrupting customer services and my deals and saying hold on I don’t care about the different departments and businesses involved. As a customer I see VW uk, VW Germany and every independent dealer as the same company. Does anybody know if you can buy a California direct from VW or a VW owned outlet in the UK. Not a privately owned franchise as most or even all of them are ?

 

[Amarillo]

This has been a right eye opener for me. Dealers must repair things under strict warranty criteria and then they bill VW. If it doesn’t fit warranty criteria they cannot claim. So if you can’t replicate a fault, 4 hours of wind and rain, then they won’t do the work as they can’t claim. VW customer services expect the dealer to pick up a goodwill tag. This is where things get sketchy. Some dealers will claim through VW fradulantly saying something else is wrong with the roof fabric but why should they? Others are more honest. Some will show goodwill others won’t. I have been asked by customer services to take my van to another dealer in Glasgow who has replaced a roof like mine. They will pay my fuel. Nothing for 1500 miles wear and tear or two days labour plus accommodation! How stupid is that. All dealers need to be equal. I am also disappointed how my roof is clearly faulty but neither my dealer or UK customer services have either the interest or clout to go to the warranty dept at VW and tell them they have to repair this. Photographic evidence should be enough. There are a lot of politics at play and I feel as a customer I am a pawn in the middle of everything. I have to keep interrupting customer services and my deals and saying hold on I don’t care about the different departments and businesses involved. As a customer I see VW uk, VW Germany and every independent dealer as the same company. Does anybody know if you can buy a California direct from VW or a VW owned outlet in the UK. Not a privately owned franchise as most or even all of them are ?

I had a loose door handle fixed under warranty in Spain. We went to a VW dealer in Logroño who identified the part required. They phoned ahead to a dealer in a town we'd be visiting three days later to have the part ready. The second dealer in Oviedo replaced the broken part and fixed the handle while the boys played in a playground overlooked by an impressive star shaped prison.
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