The dreaded roof not closing - any new tips?

[DG1]

A couple of days ago I put up the roof on our T6 Ocean to clean around the bottom channels and unblock the drainage holes. I used a car wash brush on a hose to clean away dirt and leaves. However, when I tried to close the roof, it wasn't shut fully on the driver's side, sticking up about 5 cm. There was no error message
I know there have been many threads about Ocean roofs not closing properly over the years, but was wondering if there are any new, sure fire tips to get it to close.
Firstly, the van was level when I operated the roof, as being unlevel can cause issues.
Secondly, I have tried putting the roof up and down a few times, as this is supposed to get rid of airlock, but no result.
I wondered if the water used to clean the channel was the problem, so took off the plastic cover over the hydraulic piston assembly and position sensors to let it dry out, but actually it was all dry and I could see no signs of hydraulic fluid leakage.
I have also lubricated all the sliders and pivots.
Today I am going to connect the van up to the mains and put up and down the roof 10 times to see if this gets rid of any lock.
I am due to go on a long trip next week, so if it is not sorted I will tape the front gap and run a luggage strap across the front of the roof fixed to a bolt in the awning channels.
Finally, any recommendations for specialists in Cali roofs in the Nottingham - Derby - Leicester area please?

 

[vbk1975]

A couple of days ago I put up the roof on our T6 Ocean to clean around the bottom channels and unblock the drainage holes. I used a car wash brush on a hose to clean away dirt and leaves. However, when I tried to close the roof, it wasn't shut fully on the driver's side, sticking up about 5 cm. There was no error message
I know there have been many threads about Ocean roofs not closing properly over the years, but was wondering if there are any new, sure fire tips to get it to close.
Firstly, the van was level when I operated the roof, as being unlevel can cause issues.
Secondly, I have tried putting the roof up and down a few times, as this is supposed to get rid of airlock, but no result.
I wondered if the water used to clean the channel was the problem, so took off the plastic cover over the hydraulic piston assembly and position sensors to let it dry out, but actually it was all dry and I could see no signs of hydraulic fluid leakage.
I have also lubricated all the sliders and pivots.
Today I am going to connect the van up to the mains and put up and down the roof 10 times to see if this gets rid of any lock.
I am due to go on a long trip next week, so if it is not sorted I will tape the front gap and run a luggage strap across the front of the roof fixed to a bolt in the awning channels.
Finally, any recommendations for specialists in Cali roofs in the Nottingham - Derby - Leicester area please?

I would say you have almost certainly dislodged some of the covers or clips on the side that won’t shut. The other thing to check is that the hook that is in a sliding channel on underneath of the roof panel hasn’t been dislodged. A number of people have found this in the last few months.

I genuinely don’t think this is hydraulics and given it worked before you cleaned it, I think it will just be a case of ensuring everything is where it should be, us the other good side as reference.

 

[DG1]

Thank you so much for your quick and helpful reply. I think you are right.
I hadn't noticed this hook on the underside of the roof before. The hook was loose, so I tightened it up. And the plastic clip it fits into on the roof strut below was broken. Is this necessary for the roof to shut properly? Having removed the two broken pieces, the roof still doesn't shut fully.

 

[vbk1975]

Thank you so much for your quick and helpful reply. I think you are right.
I hadn't noticed this hook on the underside of the roof before. The hook was loose, so I tightened it up. And the plastic clip it fits into on the roof strut below was broken. Is this necessary for the roof to shut properly? Having removed the two broken pieces, the roof still doesn't shut fully.
View attachment 139037

You should replace the plastic bit but shouldn’t affect the closing. Almost certainly the hook is just slightly in the wrong position. Use the other side as a reference and check for witness marks for where the grub screw was. I would move it slightly backwards to start with say 5mm

 

[DG1]

Aaagh, I hate the Ocean roof! I wish we had the manual roof from the coast.
I have tried loosening the grub screw and moving back the plastic hook to various positions, but no joy. I gave also checked the plastic covers for the piston and over the front drain holes are correctly seated, and looked for any objects that might be getting in the way. The roof still doesn't go down :-(
I have ordered part 5 from the roof schema, the bellows support arm end cap, but I can't see how the lack of this would stop the hook above from engaging.

 

[vbk1975]

Aaagh, I hate the Ocean roof! I wish we had the manual roof from the coast.
I have tried loosening the grub screw and moving back the plastic hook to various positions, but no joy. I gave also checked the plastic covers for the piston and over the front drain holes are correctly seated, and looked for any objects that might be getting in the way. The roof still doesn't go down :-(
I have ordered part 5 from the roof schema, the bellows support arm end cap, but I can't see how the lack of this would stop the hook above from engaging.

Can you move the hook completely forward in an area that is well out the way or can if it be removed (I guess not) - can you also check the part that engages with the hook, there is also a bit of clear plastic hose around one of the pins in the scissors, check it is in one piece. I am also going to ask, and don’t take this the wrong way, but have you absolutely checked there is nothing on the bed or metal area that the roof closes on, inc the cigar plug flap being open. Also maybe remove all the plastic covers you can and that takes them out the investigation

 

[DG1]

Thank you for your suggestions. None of them applied in this case, except for the hook position.
Hurray! I am really pleased to say I have now got the roof down. Phew!
I had moved the plastic roof engaging hook to the back without success. But using a metre rule to measure the distance if the hook edge to the edge of the rear scissors bracket on the other side, I found the hook on the faulty side was actually too far back rather than too far forward. Because it fits with grooves either side like a track, the hook was actually much looser than it appeared. It may have been getting looser over time and slid back when I had the roof up and was cleaning it.
While it is good that the position of the hook can be adjusted, it is a shame that VW didn't include some marker to show the optimal starting position.
I have now used a marker pen to mark either side in case the hook moves again.
Your instincts were right VBK 1975, so thank you! Because I have experienced the roof airlock problem twice over the years when parked for several days in hot weather, I was convinced this had happened gain.

 

[DG1]

Spoke too soon. As the hex bit I had was worn, I went to screwfix to get a new one to check the hook was well fixed. But on opening the roof, the hook was loose. The roof won't close again, and after tightening and trying different positions, the hook is loose again and thevroof won't shut even with the hook in exactly the same position as the other side.
I am tearing my hair out. Clearly something is getting in the way. It doesn't help having an awning as you can't see the alignment of the hook when the roof is nearly closed.

 

[vbk1975]

Spoke too soon. As the hex bit I had was worn, I went to screwfix to get a new one to check the hook was well fixed. But on opening the roof, the hook was loose. The roof won't close again, and after tightening and trying different positions, the hook is loose again and thevroof won't shut even with the hook in exactly the same position as the other side.
I am tearing my hair out. Clearly something is getting in the way. It doesn't help having an awning as you can't see the alignment of the hook when the roof is nearly closed.

On our awning side the distance from the front of the rear scissor bracket to the start of the hook bracket is 65cm exactly.

 

[DG1]

On our awning side the distance from the front of the rear scissor bracket to the start of the hook bracket is 65cm exactly.

Thanks for that. That is the same distance that I have on the passenger side. Though the star hex head grub screws tight, after testing the roof the hook is loose again, and the screw tip is gouging the aluminium bar along the roof.

 

[DG1]

After sleeping on it, I decided using a meter rule to position the roof retaining hook was protector to errors. I guess in the factory vw must use a jig to determine its correct position. So I thought I could use a piece of strip wood as a guide, cutting it to the exact distance between the hook and the next bracket behind on the passenger side. I also put silicone lubricant on the uppermost surface of the hook where it engages with the strut in front as the roof is about to close fully. But still no joy. On opening the hook was loose on its track again for some reason and there is a gouge developing in the aluminium bar where the hex grub screw makes contact.
Two thoughts. Maybe the plastic bellows support arm end clip that was broken is essential after all for the hook to engage. I have one on order from Campervan Bits and hope to collect it tomorrow.
Or maybe the base of the hook where it slides on the aluminium bar is broken in some way so it can come loose, or perhaps the thread is worn so the grubscrew isn't fully engaging, although it seems tight each time. As it fits around the aluminium bar like a track, I xantvsee how it can be removed without removing the hinge bracket towards the front so the hook can be slid off. It is an expensive part to buy, around £35...

 

[KevH]

Forgive my ignorance, can I ask what it is that seems to be pushing the hook along the track against its will. To force the grub screw to gouge itself into the metal suggests it is subject to some force, so could the hook be fine but whatever it is that is pushing it be at fault?
It’s raining at the mo so I can’t have a look at our roof.

 

[DG1]

Forgive my ignorance, can I ask what it is that seems to be pushing the hook along the track against its will. To force the grub screw to gouge itself into the metal suggests it is subject to some force, so could the hook be fine but whatever it is that is pushing it be at fault?
It’s raining at the mo so I can’t have a look at our roof.

I have now idea, as what is happening is hidden when the roof is nearly closed. My only hope now is that replacing the last

 

[DG1]

Oops.. posted by mistake. I hope that replacing the plastic end cap may help. The fact that the roof did close once suggests it is a matter of fine adjustment.
I have spent ages studying the mechanism and can't see anything out of place or causing an obstruction.

 

[DG1]

This is my plan b for my trip down the M5 next week. I have some u shaped brackets of an old roof bike rack that happen to fit into the awning slots and allow me fit a hold down luggage strap. I think some water proof tape to seal the gap at the front and deflect the wind would be a good idea.

 

[vbk1975]

View attachment 139061View attachment 139062

After sleeping on it, I decided using a meter rule to position the roof retaining hook was protector to errors. I guess in the factory vw must use a jig to determine its correct position. So I thought I could use a piece of strip wood as a guide, cutting it to the exact distance between the hook and the next bracket behind on the passenger side. I also put silicone lubricant on the uppermost surface of the hook where it engages with the strut in front as the roof is about to close fully. But still no joy. On opening the hook was loose on its track again for some reason and there is a gouge developing in the aluminium bar where the hex grub screw makes contact.
Two thoughts. Maybe the plastic bellows support arm end clip that was broken is essential after all for the hook to engage. I have one on order from Campervan Bits and hope to collect it tomorrow.
Or maybe the base of the hook where it slides on the aluminium bar is broken in some way so it can come loose, or perhaps the thread is worn so the grubscrew isn't fully engaging, although it seems tight each time. As it fits around the aluminium bar like a track, I xantvsee how it can be removed without removing the hinge bracket towards the front so the hook can be slid off. It is an expensive part to buy, around £35...

Can you slide a thin metal strip in between the hook and rail and give the grab screw something to clamp down onto that isn't the alloy rail and spread the camping force. Would a Stanley knife blade slide in?

 

[vbk1975]

View attachment 139064
This is my plan b for my trip down the M5 next week. I have some u shaped brackets of an old roof bike rack that happen to fit into the awning slots and allow me fit a hold down luggage strap. I think some water proof tape to seal the gap at the front and deflect the wind would be a good idea.

Are you sure the rubber gasket around the roof hasn't come out, it certainly doesn't look right at the front. is it worth checking it hasn't come a drift at the rear. The awning comes off with two screws and two people to lift it off.

 

[DG1]

Can you slide a thin metal strip in between the hook and rail and give the grab screw something to clamp down onto that isn't the alloy rail and spread the camping force. Would a Stanley knife blade slide in?

Interesting idea, it sounds worth a try. But as KevH says, something must be forcing the hook in some way

 

[DG1]

Are you sure the rubber gasket around the roof hasn't come out, it certainly doesn't look right at the front. is it worth checking it hasn't come a drift at the rear. The awning comes off with two screws and two people to lift it off.

Thanks for that. No, the roof sealing gasket seems fine. I think you may be seeing some black foam rubber sheet I put under the strap to protect the paintwork of the roof.

 

[vbk1975]

Interesting idea, it sounds worth a try. But as KevH says, something must be forcing the hook in some way

Worth putting some blue-tak or other soft material on the hook internally and externally and the place where the plastic clip was on the scissors mech (as this is clearly where the hook engages) and see if you can see what is and is touching and where

 

[DG1]

Worth putting some blue-tak or other soft material on the hook internally and externally and the place where the plastic clip was on the scissors mech (as this is clearly where the hook engages) and see if you can see what is and is touching and where

Nice idea, thanks!

 

[KevH]

Oops.. posted by mistake. I hope that replacing the plastic end cap may help. The fact that the roof did close once suggests it is a matter of fine adjustment.
I have spent ages studying the mechanism and can't see anything out of place or causing an obstruction.

Best of luck with this, it must be driving you crazy.

 

[DG1]

UPDATE
A big thank you to everyone who has suggested solutions. What a great resource this forum is.
And a really big thank you to Nick at Campervan Bits. I went up there this morning to get a replacement for the plastic end cap that was broken. I got two just in case.
Nick at the shop very kindly took a look at the roof as he is a very experienced Cali owner. Standing on a convenient wall ge took a good luck as I put the roof up and down. He noticed some slight wear on the base plate where the front scissor arm comes down, suggesting the roof might be slightly off centre to the right. When he pushed at the front right of the roof as it came down, the roof closed, and the seemed to be OK without being pushed the next time I closed it. Nick thought it might relate to air in the hydraulics, as he said the roof wasn't coming down evenly. But I also wonder if the roof is slightly out of alignment at the rear hinges. What the role of the roof hook is, and why it was moving after the roof was closed, I don't know.
Whatever, the design of the roof is not good if such a tiny bit of misalignment can stop it working.
Finally a shout out for the Campervan Bits shop. If you have not been, it is an Aladin's cave of Cali and camping accessories.