A Schengen Visa for a longish trip

[Amarillo]

This is a Facebook post from a couple planning a trip shorter than 90 days in France, but spending over 90 days in Schengen in a rolling 180 day period. They would be cycling around (but just within) the entire border of France on their tandem. The post highlights the difficulties and frustrations of getting a short stay visa. This would be multiplied if they were planning a trip through multiple Schengen countries.

=======

We have gone through our lives regularly visiting France

and enjoying the freedom of movement that being a part of Europe

allowed. We now find, through no fault of our own, that if we want to spend a few months cycling

round France

then we need a Visa.
The extra cost of this is one thing - the application for this is altogether a bit of a challenge. Now this post is purely from my own experience. If you are used to applying for Visas then the process is possibly more straightforward and there may be short cuts, and some of this would now be ‘obvious’. This is how it went for me as a virgin, touched for the very first time

.
So what I thought I knew.
. We would be in France

for less than 90 days which meant that we would not need a long stay visa
. I could apply for a Visa 6 months before needed
. It was likely to cost around £50
I wanted this all sorted (stress free) so I worked on the visa in November - 7 months ahead of our trip. I had to go to a France Visa website to complete the application. First registering an account to use the site and then collecting the information needed.
I discovered that I had to complete two applications, one for each of us. You’d think … oh, never mind.
I then discovered that I would actually need a long stay visa. The visa isn’t for 90 consecutive days but 90 days within a rolling 180 day period. Damn, we shouldn’t have booked that 10 day trip to Mallorca

in spring and that 4 day cycling club trip to Spain

the week before our tour starts! (Yeah, ok, so it might be obvious to you).
Anyway, applications complete I now just needed to wait until the 6 month to go alarm

goes off and submit my application.
6 months to go came. I logged on and submitted my application and was then directed to ‘TLScontact’ to register another account and input 2 new sets of information about each of us and our reference numbers for our original applications. All done and I go to press submit when I discover.
1. Short term visas can be applied for 6 months in advance
2. Long term visas need to be applied for no more than 3 months in advance
Logically that makes no sense to me but hey ho, now we need to wait another 3 months.
3 months arrived. Of course, the TLScontact site had not retained my information so I had to do it all again with multiple attempts for it to accept and then remember a password. Nonetheless I finally hit the submit button which took me to a calendar of times and dates to book an appointment in London.
1. I was expecting this
2. I wasn’t expecting it to be booked up until 10 days before our Mallorca trip
This created a problem. I was advised that the process takes about 15 days. I wouldn’t get our passports back in time for the Mallorca trip. The whole need for a long term visa is because of these holidays - yet I was struggling to fit in the process for a visa because of these holidays.
I booked an appointment for the first day back after our Mallorca trip. This would now give time for the return of our passports and visas with 22 days until our Spanish trip and 28 days until our tour begins. Needlessly stressful.
Having gone through this process I think I would now hit the submit button in advance of the 3 month date as I wouldn’t be surprised if the official submission date is not actually until the appointment takes place. I could then have got an earlier appointment. I don’t know if that would work.
The cost? About £33 each fee, presumably to TLS contact for the appointment. And 99 euros each for the visa.

I didn’t vote for Brexit, but I sure am paying the price.
I’ll update this post to let you know if it all worked out ok.

 

[andyinluton]

This would be multiplied if they were planning a trip through multiple Schengen countries.

No it wouldn't - from FAQ re visas


13 My visa has been issued by, for example, the German Consulate. Could I use this visa to make a trip to other Schengen States?
Yes. According to the Schengen rules, the Schengen visa is generally valid for all the countries in the Schengen area. Please note, however, that you always have to apply at the consulate of the country which is your primary destination (see FAQ no 5). The territorial validity of your visa is indicated on the visa sticker under the heading "Valid For". You will find information on how to read your visa sticker on this page of our website: How to read/understand the visa sticker. See FAQ no 16 on checks at the external borders.

 

[Amarillo]

No it wouldn't - from FAQ re visas


13 My visa has been issued by, for example, the German Consulate. Could I use this visa to make a trip to other Schengen States?
Yes. According to the Schengen rules, the Schengen visa is generally valid for all the countries in the Schengen area. Please note, however, that you always have to apply at the consulate of the country which is your primary destination (see FAQ no 5). The territorial validity of your visa is indicated on the visa sticker under the heading "Valid For". You will find information on how to read your visa sticker on this page of our website: How to read/understand the visa sticker. See FAQ no 16 on checks at the external borders.

I think FAQ that is for a Schengen short stay visa for up to 90 days, and as British nationals they don't need this visa.

If I understand correctly, for longer than 90 days in any 180 day period national visas are needed. But I am happy to be corrected if I have misunderstood. While my tandemist Facebook Friends' trip around France is planned for 75 days, other trips tips their time in Schengen just over the 90 day limit. After initially thinking they could get away with a short stay visa, they have now discovered (unless mistaken) that they need a long term French Visa. If I have it correct, and I may well have it wrong, this would allow them the time of their French visa in France plus up to 90 days in any 180 day period in Schengen countries other than France.

 

[andyinluton]

But I am happy to be corrected if I have misunderstood.

If I have it correct, and I may well have it wrong, this would allow them the time of their French visa in France plus up to 90 days in any 180 day period in Schengen countries other than France.

The FAQ was relating to a French 180 day Visa.
You have misunderstood the 180 day Visa - it gives them 180 days in Schengen countries, not 180 days just in France. So they should have applied before their first trip & the same Visa could covered all their trips.

They have made it far more complicated by trying to do some days using the allowance of 90/180 for some trips & then trying to get a visa for the French bit - it could be seen the same as someone trying to get a 270 day visa.

The French 180 day visa is the current favourite for anyone wanting a longer stay in their Spanish Villa. As long as France is the entry & exit point to Schengen no-one seems to care.

 

[The Tall Luthier]

@andyinluton Have you got a link to the 180 day visa please, I can't find reference to it on the gouv.fr website?

I can find the long stay visa 90 - 365 days. But that specifies that days spent in other Schengen countries is still limited to 90 days in 180.

 

[andyinluton]

VLS-T (Visa de Long Séjour Temporaire)

Used for visits of up to 6 months
You cannot work
EHIC and GHIC are accepted for medical insurance

 

[Amarillo]

VLS-T (Visa de Long Séjour Temporaire)

Used for visits of up to 6 months
You cannot work
EHIC and GHIC are accepted for medical insurance

A quick Google and it seems new rules came into force at the beginning of this year. Like you, my Facebook friends thought they could get away with a short stay visa, but they have now found out they need a long stay visa.

This page only adds to the confusion as it contains the rules in 2021 and the rules in 2023 which are different. It seems to imply that a 90-365 day visa is required.

180 days in france - VLS-T Travel to and from France

Introduction This page provide guidance of about travel to and from France when you hold a VLS-T visa. It was revised in December 2022.It is written in the context of those who travel by plane, car or ferry. Things may be different for those who enter and exit France in private boats and are

sites.google.com

 

[andyinluton]

Like you, my Facebook friends thought they could get away with a short stay visa, but they have now found out they need a long stay visa.

@Amarillo
Try reading the earlier answers carefully & stop miss-quoting me.

Not like me!
Where have I said they could get away with a short stay visa?

I've said they need a VLS-T = a type of long stay Visa thats valid for up to 6 months.

@The Tall Luthier
My understanding is that during the Visa period only, your usual Schengen period 90/180 is not being used up, but that you need to get your passport/visa stamped at entry & exit to start & stop the visa usage.

You can use your Schengen allowance after expiry of your visa period but you need to have left the EU for 24 hours & get your passport stamped for entry again.

ie. you cant do 180 days in France on a visa, stay put on a campsite & use a further 90/180 days. You must have a day out of the Schengen zone between the two stays.

 

[The Tall Luthier]

@Amarillo
Try reading the earlier answers carefully & stop miss-quoting me.

Not like me!
Where have I said they could get away with a short stay visa?

I've said they need a VLS-T = a type of long stay Visa thats valid for up to 6 months.

@The Tall Luthier
My understanding is that during the Visa period only, your usual Schengen period 90/180 is not being used up, but that you need to get your passport/visa stamped at entry & exit to start & stop the visa usage.

You can use your Schengen allowance after expiry of your visa period but you need to have left the EU for 24 hours & get your passport stamped for entry again.

ie. you cant do 180 days in France on a visa, stay put on a campsite & use a further 90/180 days. You must have a day out of the Schengen zone between the two stays.

Thanks. So I wonder how that might work if you are in France, then hop across to Spain/Italy/Switzerland for a week here and there and then to France again?

In practise you wouldn’t need your passport to cross the borders.

 

[andyinluton]

Thanks. So I wonder how that might work if you are in France, then hop across to Spain/Italy/Switzerland for a week here and there and then to France again?

In practise you wouldn’t need your passport to cross the borders.

Thats what the English in Spain seem to be doing - as long as it's stamped in France for Entry & Exit at either end no one seems to care. The Visa is for a 6 month stay in the Schengen Zone not a 6 month stay in France.

 

[GrahamB]

Thank goodness we have escaped all that bureaucracy we used to put up with. Anyone know where I can buy some tomatoes?

 

[Tarquers]

Technically the same 90 day limit applies to any EU citizen or resident, difference is enforcement and chances of getting caught. Doesn’t help anyone much, but just worth pointing out that 90 days rule was always there, people just ignored it (primarily those living in Spain!).

 

[The Tall Luthier]

Technically the same 90 day limit applies to any EU citizen or resident, difference is enforcement and chances of getting caught. Doesn’t help anyone much, but just worth pointing out that 90 days rule was always there, people just ignored it (primarily those living in Spain!).

That’s simply not true.

Membership of the Single Market gave four freedoms, one of which was ‘freedom of movement.’ You can, without paperwork choose to live in any country, work there if you wish, for as many years as takes your fancy.

The 90/180 is a visa limit placed on many 3rd countries.

 

[Tarquers]

That’s simply not true.

Membership of the Single Market gave four freedoms, one of which was ‘freedom of movement.’ You can, without paperwork choose to live in any country, work there if you wish, for as many years as takes your fancy.

The 90/180 is a visa limit placed on many 3rd countries.

I know the rule as I am a Brit with residence married to an EU Citizen. You have the right to live anywhere but bound by a legal requirement to register after 90 days. You cannot just decide to turn up somewhere and keep your residence in your home country without letting anyone know. I accept that the 90/180 rule doesn’t apply in this case, it’s after 90 days continuous and applies to all EU citizens.

To assume that this can be done “without paperwork” is a misunderstanding and simply not true. Each country in the EU retains sovereign rules and has to accept other EU citizens but with different paperwork and rules.

 

[The Tall Luthier]

I know the rule as I am a Brit with residence married to an EU Citizen. You have the right to live anywhere but bound by a legal requirement to register after 90 days. You cannot just decide to turn up somewhere and keep your residence in your home country without letting anyone know. I accept that the 90/180 rule doesn’t apply in this case, it’s after 90 days continuous and applies to all EU citizens.

To assume that this can be done “without paperwork” is a misunderstanding and simply not true. Each country in the EU retains sovereign rules and has to accept other EU citizens but with different paperwork and rules.

This is different to your first comment.

You are right that each of the 27 countries have different processing requirements. For example the UK had the option of registering EU citizens but never thought it was important enough to put into practice.

However, there is NO 90 day limit, as you suggested, which restricts the time you can spend in another country, although I accept that some of the EU member states may require you to register your residence there. States also have a right to refuse your entry or eject you if they have evidence which suggests you are undesirable citizen.

 

[Tarquers]

This is different to your first comment.

You are right that each of the 27 countries have different processing requirements. For example the UK had the option of registering EU citizens but never thought it was important enough to put into practice.

However, there is NO 90 day limit, as you suggested, which restricts the time you can spend in another country, although I accept that some of the EU member states may require you to register your residence there. States also have a right to refuse your entry or eject you if they have evidence which suggests you are undesirable citizen.

See below. EU website. Good enough?

 

[The Tall Luthier]

See below. EU website. Good enough?

View attachment 105561

I think that means we agree then.

There is no 90 day limit to residence in another member state, although you MAY have to register.

Forgive me but I agree with your last two posts, your first in this thread, was contradicted the latter ones .