Advice sought on buying a used T5 from a first time California buyer

[John_S]

Hi everyone,

My wife and I are looking at buying our first ever camper van and would really like to buy ourselves a California. We've been camping for years and but now we're at a stage where we'd love to get a camper.

We'd like to buy a T5 and we just wondered if anybody has any advice for us on what we should be looking for when we go and look at a used California?

Reading about T5s there seems to be a potential issue with corrosion on the roof and are there certain places and signs we should look for in respect of this? Should we ask the owners if they have had the VW fix roof corrosion repair work done?

Should we carefully inspect to pop up canvass and is it better if people have used the bungy cord things to help prevent the canvass from getting snagged, torn or ripped at all.

I'll admit that neither of us are particularly mechanically minded and so there's going to be a limit on how much we can inspect from a mechanical point of view but are there some particular service or maintenance milestones that we should ask about to see if certain work has been done at a certain age or mileage? Do California's have cambelts that need changing at a certain interval?

If a used T5 that we look at has the DSG gearbox are there specific things that we should look for or ask about?

Also for us budget wise we're most likely going to be looking at a T5 which is enough of a huge financial investment let alone what a T6 costs. However do people consider a T5 a good purchase or are there particular things to worry about and some potential big repair/maintenance bills that can be on the horizon for a California which is now out of warranty? If there are lots of things to worry about do people think that saving longer to buy a used T6 a better long term investment even if buying a newer California means taking more of a financial hit with the greater depreciation of a California in the first year or two from being brand new?

Thanks in advance to anyone who can offer any help & advice which will be greatly appreciated!

John

 

[WelshGas]

Hi everyone,

My wife and I are looking at buying our first ever camper van and would really like to buy ourselves a California. We've been camping for years and but now we're at a stage where we'd love to get a camper.

We'd like to buy a T5 and we just wondered if anybody has any advice for us on what we should be looking for when we go and look at a used California?

Reading about T5s there seems to be a potential issue with corrosion on the roof and are there certain places and signs we should look for in respect of this? Should we ask the owners if they have had the VW fix roof corrosion repair work done?

Should we carefully inspect to pop up canvass and is it better if people have used the bungy cord things to help prevent the canvass from getting snagged, torn or ripped at all.

I'll admit that neither of us are particularly mechanically minded and so there's going to be a limit on how much we can inspect from a mechanical point of view but are there some particular service or maintenance milestones that we should ask about to see if certain work has been done at a certain age or mileage? Do California's have cambelts that need changing at a certain interval?

If a used T5 that we look at has the DSG gearbox are there specific things that we should look for or ask about?

Also for us budget wise we're most likely going to be looking at a T5 which is enough of a huge financial investment let alone what a T6 costs. However do people consider a T5 a good purchase or are there particular things to worry about and some potential big repair/maintenance bills that can be on the horizon for a California which is now out of warranty? If there are lots of things to worry about do people think that saving longer to buy a used T6 a better long term investment even if buying a newer California means taking more of a financial hit with the greater depreciation of a California in the first year or two from being brand new?

Thanks in advance to anyone who can offer any help & advice which will be greatly appreciated!

John

1. Private sale might be cheaper but a Dealer sale comes with a VW Warranty for approved used vehicles.
2. Roof corrosion - there are 2 types and it is NOT rust, but Galvanic corrosion and non-structural but is cosmetic.
Front Panel above windscreen. VW say this was fixed Mid 2014. Pre-2014 if you have this problem then warranty for this extended to 6 years from registration and VW have a specialised repair.
Elevating roof on BOTH T5 and it appears T6 same galvanic corrosion under the edge rubber seal. On the T5 this is subject to the extended 6 year warranty but no one knows if this will be extended to the T6
3. 180 BiTurbo engine excessive oil consumption in some 2010/2011 vehicles other years may be affected, some claim.
4. Damage to the bellows caused by the Scissor mechanism is not unknown. Easily repaired and may be seen as a right of passage.
5. DSG box very popular and few complaints or problems.
Servicing costs - reasonable for Ol and filter changes about £170 from Dealer
6. DSG and 4 Motion Haldex oil changes much more expensive but only done every 40,000 miles.
7. Expensive Service at 60,000 miles or 4 years - Cambelt + Water pump about £590 from Dealer + Routine service costs.

There may be other things I've forgotten.

VIP membership gives you access to a very good Vehicle Checklist.

 

[motacyclist]

Hi John, welcome to the forum

It would be money well spent (£15 I think) to become a member to be able to access the VIP area, there are helpful downloads in there, including a comprehensive checklist in buying a California.

There is a lot of information on here about potential problems with the Cali, but do your homework and do not let reports of roof corrosion etc it put you off, it is a fabulous vehicle and you will not regret buying one.

Obviously buying new with a full warranty gives three years peace of mind, the downside being the wait to save up/wait for a build slot when you could be enjoying yourself in a used or demo vehicle. Only you can make that decision.

Have a look in your nearest VW Cali dealer and compare what they have in stock with a new van.

Good luck

 

[Michael G]

Hi John,
We probably spent 2-3 hours going through the Cali when we bought ours. It is a lot to check. The checklist on this forum is a great help for the camping part of the vehicle. The other part is a normal inspection of the vehicle itself. Go for the T5, mechanically it should not be an issue compared to the T6. Be sure to check water pump, fridge and that the roof stays up for 30 min. Sagging is a known issue. Batteries, LED lights. The awning can have several issues if left up when windy. I have seen hinges on sliding doors having taken a beating.

 

[Velma's Dad]

However do people consider a T5 a good purchase or are there particular things to worry about and some potential big repair/maintenance bills that can be on the horizon for a California which is now out of warranty? If there are lots of things to worry about do people think that saving longer to buy a used T6 a better long term investment even if buying a newer California means taking more of a financial hit with the greater depreciation of a California in the first year or two from being brand new?

Welcome John. Some general comments to start you off. The T5 and T6 are both extremely dependable base vehicles, with excellent resale values, so you'll be pretty unlucky if either proved to be a lemon. They're designed to be reliable commercial vehicles and to shrug off high mileages.

The question of new vs. used/in-warranty vs. used/out-of-warranty is slightly skewed in the case of the Cali by the slow depreciation, so that you don't save all that much by buying say a three year old vehicle as a one year old, compared to some luxury cars that have lost most of their value before they're even school-age.

But (though I have no actual data to back it up!) I suspect there is a tendency for the depreciation to be greatest on the options, rather than on the base vehicle. That is, a lot of new Calis are ordered with loads of extras and my bet is that the full value of those is typically not recovered at resale.

Others on this marvellous forum will have a lot more to say, but this will get the ball rolling.

 

[briwy]

I would suggest that if possible you get an existing Cali owner to go with you to give it the once over. They will know all the wrinkles and know which buttons to press to makes sure that everything like the the roof, fridge, heater etc is working ok. Unless you are familiar with these controls it can be a bit daunting.

 

[John_S]

Hi WelshGas, motacyclist, Michael G, Velma's Dad and briwy,

Thanks to all of you for your advice above which is really helpful and much appreciated! I didn't know about the vehicle checklist and so it sounds like that will be £15 well spent on the VIP membership to get that.

All of the above has given me loads of food for thought to think over as well as ideas of what to think about / look for when going to view a Cali.

The two places that we've been looking out for Cali's on is on this website and also the VW used vans website and I think we'll continue to keep an eye on these places. Autotrader just seems to be a bit frustrating because of the number of vans listed as California's when they're not. However maybe I shouldn't rule it out as a place to find one for risk of missing one that's right for us.

There seems to be as many California's come up for sale on this website as the VW used vans website but many of them seem to sell almost instantly which is a bit daunting for a buyer who has not owned one before and so does not have the experience or confidence of what to look for on what is an incredibly expensive purchase. Therefore the thought of having to make an extremely quick decision on a high value but used product is a bit scary but now I know about the checklist that should help a lot.

I think that if going for a T5 I'd rather go for the 140bhp engine but I say that only because I value the potentially better fuel economy when compared to the 180bhp model but having not driven either yet I'm not speaking from experience of what they're like to drive.

Following the tip above to take a California owner with me unfortunately I don't know anybody who owns a Cali, nor a campervan for that matter. So far we've been to campervan shows and so we've been in lots of VW Transporter campervan conversions however it's a California that we really want but they're a bit more difficult to track down to view but we'll keep hunting.

Thank you again for all of your help and advice!

John

 

[WelshGas]

Hi WelshGas, motacyclist, Michael G, Velma's Dad and briwy,

Thanks to all of you for your advice above which is really helpful and much appreciated! I didn't know about the vehicle checklist and so it sounds like that will be £15 well spent on the VIP membership to get that.

All of the above has given me loads of food for thought to think over as well as ideas of what to think about / look for when going to view a Cali.

The two places that we've been looking out for Cali's on is on this website and also the VW used vans website and I think we'll continue to keep an eye on these places. Autotrader just seems to be a bit frustrating because of the number of vans listed as California's when they're not. However maybe I shouldn't rule it out as a place to find one for risk of missing one that's right for us.

There seems to be as many California's come up for sale on this website as the VW used vans website but many of them seem to sell almost instantly which is a bit daunting for a buyer who has not owned one before and so does not have the experience or confidence of what to look for on what is an incredibly expensive purchase. Therefore the thought of having to make an extremely quick decision on a high value but used product is a bit scary but now I know about the checklist that should help a lot.

I think that if going for a T5 I'd rather go for the 140bhp engine but I say that only because I value the potentially better fuel economy when compared to the 180bhp model but having not driven either yet I'm not speaking from experience of what they're like to drive.

Following the tip above to take a California owner with me unfortunately I don't know anybody who owns a Cali, nor a campervan for that matter. So far we've been to campervan shows and so we've been in lots of VW Transporter campervan conversions however it's a California that we really want but they're a bit more difficult to track down to view but we'll keep hunting.

Thank you again for all of your help and advice!

John

Could be worth hiring one for a long weekend?

 

[Meoncoast]

a hire may help. WG said it 1st

 

[Hotel California]

Welcome , if you are not very familiar with Cali's i suggest you'd go and check out a few 2nd hands for sale at dealers .
They will probally have them on display and you can see them roof up ...
then visit some private sales and compare.
Many useful info on the forum here also.
Download the handover checklist once you become VIP member

 

[Velma's Dad]

I think that if going for a T5 I'd rather go for the 140bhp engine but I say that only because I value the potentially better fuel economy when compared to the 180bhp model but having not driven either yet I'm not speaking from experience of what they're like to drive.

We have a 180bhp which has stacks of power, lavish for a campervan. I never test drove a 140 but I suspect I'd have been perfectly content with it - like many 140 owners on this forum.

I did test drive a conversion which was on the 102bhp base van - and a lot of convos use the 84bhp. The 102 didn't feel particularly sluggish.

Interestingly, there's actually relatively little difference in fuel consumption between the various T5 engines: 84, 102, 140 and 180. ... although perhaps not so surprisingly actually, as they're all the same basic 2.0L engine just with different mapped outputs plus bi-turbo, intercooler etc pimping at the top end.

Incidentally the Bluemotion option (Start/Stop, regenerative braking) does add a significant boost to mpg, at least according to VW (and the honesty of their testing regimes is... well, legendary ).

[EDIT] I should have said for clarity that I'm talking here about the "T5.1", ie from 2010 onwards. T5s before that had completely different engines, a 1.9 and a 2.5L.

 

[kernow]

Picking up on the previous item, I have a 140 and it's absolutely fine to live with day to day. I say that as someone who uses my Cali as a daily driver.
The 180 does have more grunt, but if you are looking at T5s and see one with the smaller BHP don't fret too much. At the end of the day its personal choice, but either choice is just fine.
Enjoy the search!

 

[MattBW]

My 114 is absolutely fine to be honest too, although you can't get an SE with that, only the Beach.

 

[Palm]

140 HP works fine it is it is after all a camping car for relaxed vacations as vell as commuting. My best guess is that over all fuel economy and service costs are higher on a 180 HP biturbo engines. Consider your use cases beside camping and vacations.

 

[John_S]

Hi All,

Thank you very much for your advice above about the different engines and also for your tips to hire one for a weekend and that's definitely something that we'll look into.

Also I just wondered if anybody has any thoughts on the pro's and con's of buying a California which has had a previous life as a rental vehicle?

Looking at the VW Used Vans website (and some for sale on this website) I suspect that a few of them on there are ex-hire/rental Cali's. There's even one on the VW Vans website which clearly shows a hire companies branding sticker on the vehicle on the photos. Anyway I just wondered if people have any thoughts on these vehicles and whether there are extra pre purchase checks they would take as a precautionary measure.

Obviously there could be good and bad used vehicles that have only been owned by one single private owner according to the care taken of them and the use that a vehicle has had. Therefore you have to weigh up each used vehicle on its own merits. However I'm just wondering with an ex hire vehicle whether they have potentially had a slightly harder life than some privately owned used California's that are out there for sale?

Thanks again for all of your help & advice.

John

 

[Velma's Dad]

However I'm just wondering with an ex hire vehicle whether they have potentially had a slightly harder life than some privately owned used California's that are out there for sale?

Even if they haven't been owned by a hire company, the dealer stock vehicles may well have been loaned out in various ways.

If the van has had a 'hard life' then I'd say that's almost certainly going to show up in the interior - an excessive number of scuffs, nicks etc. You can check that for yourself, just crawl all over the van systematically, inside as well as out. Eg, pull down every window blind, check every cupboard latch... every inch of the roof bellows, and so on. Use one of the checklists on the forum. But it doesn't need any special skill or knowledge.

If it's all reasonably tidy, and has the correct service record (really do scrutinise that), I'd say don't worry too much about who owned it.

Just one thing though - if you don;t intend to own the vehicle for very long, you might limit your resale value somewhat with an ex-hire. But if it;s a good price in the first place, then so what?

 

[BillyCasper]

As long as it's clean, there may be advantages: early life failures and snags sorted out; it's been used, mechanical equipment likes being used.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Palm]

It is value in the options added by the previous owner (mentioned before in the thread).
I bought mine second hand well equiped with alot of must have and nice to have gadgets. We have removed some of them to make it suit our needs.

 

[SimonB]

Welcome to the club. How soon are you thinking of buying? If you were able to go to a meet of other owners, you would learn a lot from talking to them and being shown over their vehicles. Our first Meet was 18 months ago and at a riverside pub. There were about 18 owners there and we learned so much in the few hours of daylight, which stood us in good stead ever since.
There is a Meet in May at Brean near Weston, but that might be too far away and too long to wait.
There might be a Meet nearer to you. You'll find we are a friendly lot and very happy to talk about all sorts of things, especially Californias. Simon

 

[B J G]

If in doubt you could pay for a Professional Inspection. nearly £300 but looks like they do everything, including finance & history/ownership checks.
In this day of cons and rip offs may be the way to go.
No personal knowledge of the Company.

http://www.macic.co.uk/

 

[zisdorf]

I recommend you test the leisure batteries. We battled with weak leisured for our first 6 months of ownership (until we bought new ones for 700€); having them tested by VW wasn't useful: apparently the bar for "bad" batteries is pretty low according to formal testing.

How to test? My only suggestion is to turn on the heat for 30 (or more?) minutes and make sure the voltage reading on the control unit stays above 12.5v. Maybe someone else has a better test.

If the voltage drops, no worries, just demand an extra 500£ off the price. Even if they say "oh, it isn't charged", don't trust them.

....now, a return question. We live in Germany and bought our left-hand-driver there. We are considering moving to London for a year and then selling our beloved California after the year. Will anyone buy our left-hand-drive in UK? Would you? Or will we need R find a continental buyer from afar? Thanks!!

 

[B J G]

I recommend you test the leisure batteries. We battled with weak leisured for our first 6 months of ownership (until we bought new ones for 700€); having them tested by VW wasn't useful: apparently the bar for "bad" batteries is pretty low according to formal testing.

How to test? My only suggestion is to turn on the heat for 30 (or more?) minutes and make sure the voltage reading on the control unit stays above 12.5v. Maybe someone else has a better test.

If the voltage drops, no worries, just demand an extra 500£ off the price. Even if they say "oh, it isn't charged", don't trust them.

....now, a return question. We live in Germany and bought our left-hand-driver there. We are considering moving to London for a year and then selling our beloved California after the year. Will anyone buy our left-hand-drive in UK? Would you? Or will we need R find a continental buyer from afar? Thanks!!

Reference your Left Hand drive.
There was one for sale in UK a few months ago which sold pretty quickly. From that I'd say you shouldn't have a problem just be careful with offers to export it as you may end up with no Cali & no money.

 

[Gavinskii]

I recommend you test the leisure batteries. We battled with weak leisured for our first 6 months of ownership (until we bought new ones for 700€); having them tested by VW wasn't useful: apparently the bar for "bad" batteries is pretty low according to formal testing.

How to test? My only suggestion is to turn on the heat for 30 (or more?) minutes and make sure the voltage reading on the control unit stays above 12.5v. Maybe someone else has a better test.

If the voltage drops, no worries, just demand an extra 500£ off the price. Even if they say "oh, it isn't charged", don't trust them.

....now, a return question. We live in Germany and bought our left-hand-driver there. We are considering moving to London for a year and then selling our beloved California after the year. Will anyone buy our left-hand-drive in UK? Would you? Or will we need R find a continental buyer from afar? Thanks!!

I went out to buy a LHD model specifically. With the higher spec (only just being seen now on some of the T6's) and a liking of European adventures, it was a no brainer for me. I think it will sell very easily over here, even more so if you go through the process of getting it a V5C.