Batteries drained - solar panels not working

[WilliamsDar]

Having battery issues!
I’m currently touring Portugal and for some reason my leisure batteries have decided to completely drain themselves in one day. Haven’t charged anything apart from my phone and the fridge being on.
I have a 100w solar panel with a Victron Mppt 75/15. For some reason it’s staying in float mode.

Any advice greatly appreciated as I’m currently stuck with no electricity!

 

[yossarian]

If your Mppt is in float mode it thinks your batteries are full.

To get help you could fill some blanks:

How does your MPPT connect to the leisure battery system?
What voltage does the MPPT indicate for the battery?
What voltage does the control panel indicate?
Are there any weird incations on your control panel? What does the battery bar graph indicate?
Can you charge normally using the engine or EHU?
Anything else you think relevant?

 

[WilliamsDar]

If your Mppt is in float mode it thinks your batteries are full.

To get help you could fill some blanks:

How does your MPPT connect to the leisure battery system?
What voltage does the MPPT indicate for the battery?
What voltage does the control panel indicate?
Are there any weird incations on your control panel? What does the battery bar graph indicate?
Can you charge normally using the engine or EHU?
Anything else you think relevant?

Hi
Thanks for your reply.
1. MPPT connects to the leisure battery under the wardrobe. Been installed for 2 years now.
2. Attached screenshot of Mppt info.
3. Nothing strange on the control panel. Just showing that leisure batteries are drained.
4. Started engine and ran it for 45 mins and the leisure batteries still stay at zero.
Been in the van for 11 days now and all was fine until last night when I parked up it said 30 mins left in batteries. Did nothing out of the ordinary yesterday.

I’ve disconnected all the solar panel cables and reconnected to be sure all is ok but this didn’t change anything.

 

[yossarian]

Hi
Thanks for your reply.
1. MPPT connects to the leisure battery under the wardrobe. Been installed for 2 years now.
2. Attached screenshot of Mppt info.
3. Nothing strange on the control panel. Just showing that leisure batteries are drained.
4. Started engine and ran it for 45 mins and the leisure batteries still stay at zero.
Been in the van for 11 days now and all was fine until last night when I parked up it said 30 mins left in batteries. Did nothing out of the ordinary yesterday.

I’ve disconnected all the solar panel cables and reconnected to be sure all is ok but this didn’t change anything.

View attachment 111124

Hmmm, your mppt is putting 2.10A through something... It looks like the mppt is working normally and it's fuse is intact. Next thing to look at is a photo of the control panel status graphic? The picture of the van and battery.

 

[WilliamsDar]

See pic attached. Thanks for your help

 

[yossarian]

See pic attached. Thanks for your help

View attachment 111125

The measured voltage suggests your batteries are full. The sensors that detect battery state of charge appear to be in a non sane state.

The most likely cause is that your mppt negative feed is connected directly to the battery negative and not the vehicle's chassis ground.

If so, you can reset the sensors by unplugging and replugging their two pin connectors. There is one on each battery negative. Resetting the sensors is a temporary fix and a permanent solution would be to rewire the mppt negative feed to the chassis.

You could proceed as above if you think this is the problem or, if not, lets take a look at the connections on the rear leisure battery.

 

[WilliamsDar]

So still no luck.
Disconnected the two pin connectors on the battery under the seat.
Disconnected all the solar panel cables and reconnected again and still not charging.

Also did a test of disconnecting the solar panel and mppt charger then started the engine to see if the batteries would charge and sill nothing.

Not looking good

 

[yossarian]

The two pin connector of the wardrobe battery?

 

[yossarian]

still not charging

Look past the bar graph: both your mppt and control panel are showing a charge.

Your symptoms are of an indication problem not a charge problem.

 

[yossarian]

Once you have reset *both* sensors you can look at J608.

Btw: connecting the mppt to the wardrobe battery negative primarily affects the sensor attached to the wardrobe battery.

 

[WilliamsDar]

Update:
I managed to remove the rear battery. Disconnected the sensor cable and checked the cube fuse. This didn’t work.

Then I disconnected the whole battery from the van and reconnected it. This fixed the problem and I’m back to 60+ hrs of electricity displaying on my control panel.

Thanks for your advice and help.

 

[dspuk]

Update:
I managed to remove the rear battery. Disconnected the sensor cable and checked the cube fuse. This didn’t work.

Then I disconnected the whole battery from the van and reconnected it. This fixed the problem and I’m back to 60+ hrs of electricity displaying on my control panel.

Thanks for your advice and help.

When you say "whole" battery do you mean leisure or starter? Just so we know in case any other member needs to do the same at any point.

 

[yossarian]

Is your mppt connected directly to the battery negative?

 

[WilliamsDar]

When you say "whole" battery do you mean leisure or starter? Just so we know in case any other member needs to do the same at any point.

The rear leisure battery was disconnected then reconnected. Fixed the problem instantly.

 

[WilliamsDar]

Is your mppt connected directly to the battery negative?

Yes correct

 

[yossarian]

Yes correct

So this is the underlying cause, you need to fix this. The problem will recur anytime the solar produces an appreciable portion of your charge.

I'm not sure why disconnecting the IBS didn't work but disconnecting the battery did. On post MY 2019 or so this should do the same thing. Perhaps the IBS needs to be disconnected for a little time to reset. Or perhaps the IBS needs a few minutes to initialise? Or perhaps J608 is slow to recognise the reset?

Anyway, glad you got it going. Enjoy your holiday, thanks for reporting back it helps whoever reads this in the future.

Edit: on further study of the wiring diagram it's evident that disconnecting batteries one are a time will have no effect on either IBS or on J608 if the various fuses are intact. Disconnecting both batteries at once will reset all three units and the control panel.

But the least intrusive way to reset the IBS is to disconnect the two pin plug on each. And for J608 it's to remove the 4 fuses outlined in the California supplement.

 

[WilliamsDar]

Hi everyone.

Ok so I want to find a permanent fix for this issue I had while travelling!

After my last post it did happen again and I had to AGAIN disconnect one leisure battery and reconnect it to get some power back in the van!

I really do not want this to happen to me again and also I am soon installing another similar solar kit in a friends van T6.1.

So for any experts out there - does anyone know how to fix this issue forever. @yossarian you mentioned the problem was because I have the negative connected directly to the battery? Can you explain why this is a problem? And if I need to connect the negative somewhere else then where?

I look forward to hearing back from you all. Has anyone else had this issue?

For reference my van is a Cali Ocean 2021 4motion

 

[yossarian]

does anyone know how to fix this issue forever. @yossarian you mentioned the problem was because I have the negative connected directly to the battery? Can you explain why this is a problem? And if I need to connect the negative somewhere else then where?

The most common place to connect your solar is to the battery hold down clamp bolt. Roger usually supplies a ring terminal that is large enough to go on there.

Briefly the reason is that your solar energy bypasses the battery sensor if you connect directly to the battery. You could search here for more info key phrases: IBS, Solar, Battery empty please charge now, etc. The sensor measures aggregate energy in and out of the battery and if some energy is not measured the sensor becomes wildly inaccurate.

 

[yossarian]

See this guide by @dspuk . I've linked to the post with the pic of the hold down clamp. https://vwcaliforniaclub.com/thread...w-panel-to-a-my21-6-1-ocean.46234/post-599834

 

[WelshGas]

Hi everyone.

Ok so I want to find a permanent fix for this issue I had while travelling!

After my last post it did happen again and I had to AGAIN disconnect one leisure battery and reconnect it to get some power back in the van!

I really do not want this to happen to me again and also I am soon installing another similar solar kit in a friends van T6.1.

So for any experts out there - does anyone know how to fix this issue forever. @yossarian you mentioned the problem was because I have the negative connected directly to the battery? Can you explain why this is a problem? And if I need to connect the negative somewhere else then where?

I look forward to hearing back from you all. Has anyone else had this issue?

For reference my van is a Cali Ocean 2021 4motion

One question. Did your fridge stop working?
If it continued working then your Leisure Batteries were charged as the fridge stops working below 11.5 volts.
On the T6.1 the " Hours " is inaccurate regarding the actual charge status of the battery. It relies on " spot " data of voltage and amps use and will vary significantly depending on the spot current usage ie: low hours when fridge compressor running and high when compressor off.
Wiring the solar to the battery -tve means you bypass the battery monitor. So the Control Panel sees voltage readings and amps usage that are outside its parameters. The Control Panel then has a hissy fit.
Wire the Solar Panel -tve to the chassis using the battery clamp bolt. Then the battery monitor is in circuit and the Control Panel will see amps IN from the solar and general usage amps . The Control Panel " Hours " will still be very variable but shouldn't have a " hissy fit "
However the Voltage displayed is accurate.

 

[yossarian]

disconnect one leisure battery and reconnect it to get some power back in the van!

I've been through the wiring diagram and if this procedure works then you most likely have a blown cube fuse or some other problem. On a properly working T6.1 disconnecting the battery without disconnecting the IBS should not reset the sensor.

 

[dspuk]

See this guide by @dspuk . I've linked to the post with the pic of the hold down clamp. https://vwcaliforniaclub.com/thread...w-panel-to-a-my21-6-1-ocean.46234/post-599834

My understanding is that while the battery clamp is the safest and during install the easiest, any ground to chassis will do really.

 

[yossarian]

My understanding is that while the battery clamp is the safest and during install the easiest, any ground to chassis will do really.

Agreed with the caveat that the terminology "battery clamp" is confusing in this context. I'd suggest you edit to "battery hold down clamp." It's quite common for the attachments to the terminals to be called "clamps."

 

[WilliamsDar]

Thanks all for your helpful replies.

To answer @WelshGas my fridge was not working when the battery "died".

Thanks for the graph you posted - very useful.

I will change the wiring and bolt the negative to the battery hold down clamp and see what happens.