Carbon monoxide alarms, pointless?

[crazygrandad]

I notice most people have Carbon monoxide alarms in their vans so I went and purchased one last week, today I tested it in the van and put it next to the gas ring and left the gas on but no alarm sounded. I contacted Fire Angel thinking it had a fault and they told me it wont work with that type of gas

 

[rippers]

I'm not sure I follow you?
The carbon monoxide is produced when the gas is burnt there is none in the unburnt gas itself. Pretty sure also the sensor would have to be up higher as carbon monoxide is lighter then air. Where as the unburnt gas is denser so goes down. Most alarms will instruct you place the detector at least 1 meter from the burner and around 150cm from the ceiling.
If you wanted an alarm to sense whether you have an actual gas leak you need a very expensive gas detector.
Carbon Monoxide alarms are not pointless and are needed for when you use the stove in a confined space as without sufficent ventilation you will poison yourself or worst

 

[GrannyJen]

As said above, it is a CO detector not a butane detector. CO is odourless, produced when there is incomplete burning and is deadly. A CO detector is essential. It can save your life.

If you have a butane leak, for example in the gas bottle compartment, then it will sink down and vent through the bottom. A butane leak within the van is unlikely to concentrate where you are breathing. CO will.

 

[Bubba Gross]

and of course you can smell unburnt butane, but you cannot smell CO

 

[briwy]

Got a free Honeywell one today at the Caravan & Motorhome Show at Newark. National Grid gas engineers had a stand there pushing the dangers of CO and gave freebies out all day. The engineer we spoke to warned about buying cheap ones that can have the batteries replaced as they are not calibrated correctly once the battery is changed. The Honeywell ones given away have a "last use date" on them, roughly seven years after which they should be replaced wth a new one.
I don't know how much it is to buy one but the entrance charge is £7 so if you are round there go and get a freebie.

 

[estresao]

What's the model they gave you?

 

[jts46]

The engineer we spoke to warned about buying cheap ones that can have the batteries replaced as they are not calibrated correctly once the battery is changed. The Honeywell ones given away have a "last use date" on them, roughly seven years after which they should be replaced wth a new one.
I don't know how much it is to buy one but the entrance charge is £7 so if you are round there go and get a freebie.

This is true of most battery operated test equipment. When i was in business it was cheaper to throw some test equipment away, as it was too expensive to have new batteries fitted and recalibrated.

John

 

[briwy]

What's the model they gave you?

It's the XC70 model, seem to be around £20 to buy.

http://www.homesafety.honeywell.com/prodxseries.html

 

[GrannyJen]

I think it may also be worth pointing out the dangers of Barbecues being used in enclosed spaces.

Almost every year there are are reports of people who have taken a BBQ into an awning or tent being overcome with CO.

BBQ's need a good draw of air. Restrict the airflow and there will be only partial burning, CO will be emitted and in some circumstances, no matter how draughty you think the tent or awning is, those gases will build up. Only two years ago a whole family was overcome and I believe it was the 14 y/old daughter who paid the final price.

Another plea to have a CO detector anywhere that there is fuel being burnt be it gas, diesel or charcoal.

Edit: A link to one story

 

[Bobbybus]

...its also been known for people to use non gas bbqs to warm the interior of a tent, not realising that CO is still being produced! Remember, it is colourless and odourless!

 

[GSX1300R]

Where is the best place to put a CO2 alarm. I dont want to drill into the cabinet and I have tried strong double sided tape and it wont stay on. So would it be ok maybe sitting on the dash?

 

[GSX1300R]

Where is the best place to put a CO2 alarm. I dont want to drill into the cabinet and I have dried strong double sided ta

 

[sue.h]

we didnt drill anything. we may be wrong but we keep it in a cupboard and get it out at night and put it on the glass panel over the hob

 

[GrannyJen]

CO alarms are free standing, no drilling required.

Place it when parked up anywhere convenient and close to the air that you will be breathing.

For me its on top of the fridge.

 

[Romke]

Where is the best place to put a CO2 alarm. I dont want to drill into the cabinet and I have tried strong double sided tape and it wont stay on. So would it be ok maybe sitting on the dash?

I'm using 3M Dual Lock - works wonders! http://goo.gl/qgZsyT
In my Beach I have the CO alarm at the top of the left C pillar, close to the ceiling.

 

[Pete Wilkins]

The way I fitted mine was to screw a metal strap on the back of the alarm which we pushed btwn the top of the wardrobe and then bent down on the inside the wardrobe

 

[snowy55]

The way I fitted mine was to screw a metal strap on the back of the alarm which we pushed btwn the top of the wardrobe and then bent down on the inside the wardrobe

Same for my alarm

 

[Fergie Collier]

Do you need a CO detector when using the diesel heating in a California at night ?

 

[GrannyJen]

Do you need a CO detector when using the diesel heating in a California at night ?

Most will say no as the fuel is being combusted outside the van.

My heart says yes as any proximity to carbon fuels being burnt lends to the possibility, no matter how slight, of drawing in CO.

I use mine all the time. The greatest risk of CO being produced is from the hobs, especially this time of year when their will be the probability of windows being closed to conserve heat.

For around £21 why take the chance? People saying "Bad luck, a million to one chance" is little comfort when your Cali converts from fun vehicle to someone else's inheritance.

 

[B J G]

Do you need a CO detector when using the diesel heating in a California at night ?

Diesel heater uses a heat exchanger method which means no diesel burner exhaust enters the cabin area. There is always the possibility of a fault developing, very small, where the exhaust gases could leak into the cabin heat input duct or that the actual exhaust gasses could enter the cabin through an open door or window, the amount would be negligible but still theoretically possible.

In reality you would most likely have diesel fumes giving a warning drawing attention to a problem.

I have a detector fitted.

 

[Ginab]

Re the position of the alarm - this is very important. There are regulations that specify where it should be put in a domestic situation and although it would be impossible to follow these in a van, the same principles apply. Because CO rises, ideally you need to place the alarm above head height to be safe; if you place it lower down e.g. worktop height, you will be dead before it goes off!

 

[B J G]

Re the position of the alarm - this is very important. There are regulations that specify where it should be put in a domestic situation and although it would be impossible to follow these in a van, the same principles apply. Because CO rises, ideally you need to place the alarm above head height to be safe; if you place it lower down e.g. worktop height, you will be dead before it goes off!

As the alarm triggers well below any lethal gas level I think you are overstating the risk in this instance.

Certainly installation as directed by the manufacturer is required but in reality the difference between worktop height and normal cabin height isn't that much. Certainly not a life or death margin.

In order to comply with the installation directions I fitted mine to the wardrobe outer wall to rear of the sliding door by a stainless self tapping screw, I'll sell the Cali with the detector as a free, bonus, safety device so no issue with having a screw fitted.

 

[GrannyJen]

If I'm sleeping downstairs then the alarm is on top of the fridge, about 18 inches above nose level.

If I'm sleeping upstairs then it is around nose level.

I'm not one for being terribly technical about these things

 

[Ginab]

As previously mentioned, you can’t get things perfect in a camper van. When ours arrives, I shall attach the detector near the top of the elevating roof but because I hope we will sleep up top, it still won’t be ideal.
I always feel quite worried about gas - unfortunately a friend of mine and his father were both killed by carbon monoxide poisoning in their own home. They had a detector but had never put it up. We don’t have gas in our village so I’ve only got the wood burner to worry about!

 

[WelshGas]

There are 2 sources of Carbon Monoxide production in the California. The Gas Hobs and the Diesel Parking Heater.
With the Diesel Parking Heater All combustion and exhaust takes place outside the vehicle cabin. Diesel engines produce very little CO and a Diesel Parking Heater even less. In fact so little it isn’t measurable by most Alarms. Also the Heater has to be in tip top condition to work. If not it will fail to ignite or run.
The most dangerous appliance in the California are the Gas Hobs. Dirty burners lead to incomplete combustion and hence CO. The burners should always burn with a blue tinged flame and if they don’t should not be used. Adequate ventilation is important.
In fact if more than 1 person sleeps in the vehicle then you are more at risk of Carbon Dioxide poisoning than Carbon Monoxide. Ventilation is very important, and that means more than just the Canvas Roof Vents.

http://www.elgas.com.au/blog/1585-why-does-a-gas-flame-burn-blue-lpg-gas-natural-propane-methane