Coronavirus Breathing Technique

[T6 CFO]

This falls in line with everything I’ve seen about lying on your front and breathing technique.

Get practicing folks.


Mike

 

[Jabberwocky]

So if I understand this well (the breathing video) once you are infected lying on your back is a bad thing as it closes off the small airways in the base of your lungs. This breathing technique is great if you are at home but should you be transferred to hospital and in worst case ITU then why are all the patients in all the photos/videos lying on their backs?

 

[T6 CFO]

This is something pro active you can do yourself at home and you’ve got it right.

There’s a harrowing video on BBC showing the ICU. They move patients on to their fronts to assist breathing.




Mike

 

[Velma's Dad]

So if I understand this well (the breathing video) once you are infected lying on your back is a bad thing as it closes off the small airways in the base of your lungs. This breathing technique is great if you are at home but should you be transferred to hospital and in worst case ITU then why are all the patients in all the photos/videos lying on their backs?

Some of the footage of patients being ventilated in Italy showed them prone rather than on their backs.

However... while I've no reason to believe the health practitioners in the video aren't genuine, and their advice may actually prove to be good, I'd personally be quite cautious about following health advice given out ad hoc, rather than as a considered package of advice from 'official' NHS channels.

 

[T6 CFO]

Some of the footage of patients being ventilated in Italy showed them prone rather than on their backs.

However... while I've no reason to believe the health practitioners in the video aren't genuine, and their advice may actually prove to be good, I'd personally be quite cautious about following health advice given out ad hoc, rather than as a considered package of advice from 'official' NHS channels.

I can’t argue with your comment. I thought about posting this one and on balance couldn’t see it could do any harm.

There is a link here to Daily Express discussing the video.

Coronavirus: Doctor reveals breathing technique that could help relieve COVID-19 symptoms

CORONAVIRUS symptoms can range from mild to moderate depending on a number of factors. While people experiencing symptoms may feel helpless, a doctor has shared a breathing technique that he claims can alleviate symptoms and help to reduce the risks associated.

www.google.co.uk

Mike

 

[Jabberwocky]

Some of the footage of patients being ventilated in Italy showed them prone rather than on their backs.

However... while I've no reason to believe the health practitioners in the video aren't genuine, and their advice may actually prove to be good, I'd personally be quite cautious about following health advice given out ad hoc, rather than as a considered package of advice from 'official' NHS channels.

Ah OK. I've only ever seen poor folks on their backs so thanks for the added info.

 

[AlanC]

This is something pro active you can do yourself at home and you’ve got it right.

There’s a harrowing video on BBC showing the ICU. They move patients on to their fronts to assist breathing.




Mike

That was shot at the UCH Intensive Care unit in London.
It showed the medical staff gathering around a patient to turn him onto his front to help with his breathing.
Quite difficult given the number of things attached to the patient.

I have very high admiration for all NHS staff during this crisis.

Alan

 

[WelshGas]

So if I understand this well (the breathing video) once you are infected lying on your back is a bad thing as it closes off the small airways in the base of your lungs. This breathing technique is great if you are at home but should you be transferred to hospital and in worst case ITU then why are all the patients in all the photos/videos lying on their backs?

The difference is between patients who are breathing on their own and those who are being ventilated.
Ventilated patients normally lie on their backs and normally that is OK as the ventilation and increased O2 mix is sufficient. However if the patients state deteriorates then they are turned onto their front. This is not done lightly as various venous and arterial lines, catheters etc: are inserted on the front of the body , so the patient ends up lying on them, Also, in the event of a cardiac arrest it is very difficult to carry out cardiac resuscitation with the patient face down. It also takes about 5 people minimum to turn a ventilated patient without losing the ventilation tube , iv lines and other monitoring lines, so is an action of last resort.

 

[WelshGas]

The reason lying on your front increases lung capacity and function is purely anatomical.
Examine these x-rays of the side view of the L and R lungs.

You can see the back/spine on the L side in each of these x-rays.
When you have a chest problem, lying on your back, then All the lung tissue to the Left of the yellow line fills with fluid and becomes congested and it doesn’t ventilate well and oxygen uptake falls, But the lung to the Right of the yellow line is very well ventilated, oxygen uptake is better BUT it has a smaller volume compared with the dependant ( back ) part of the lung.
Now, turn the patient onto their front and you reverse everything. You now have the larger part of the lung uppermost. A larger lung volume that is now properly ventilated and thus better oxygen uptake.

This is a simplistic explanation because the dependant lung does have better blood flow than the upper section of lung, but congested lung will decrease flow. There are a lot of variables to be considered before using face down ventilation as although it might improve oxygenation it can have depressive effects on heart function and hence kidney function etc:.
It can be a treatment of last resort before reaching for the ECMO ( Extra Corporeal Membrane Oxygenator ), but I very much doubt many patients are offered this form of therapy.

Intensive Care doesn’t cure patients, it buys time for the body to rally and heal itself. If it can’t do that then the outcome is inevitable.

 

[T6 CFO]

The reason lying on your front increases lung capacity and function is purely anatomical.
Examine these x-rays of the side view of the L and R lungs.
View attachment 57167
You can see the back/spine on the L side in each of these x-rays.
When you have a chest problem, lying on your back, then All the lung tissue to the Left of the yellow line fills with fluid and becomes congested and it doesn’t ventilate well and oxygen uptake falls, But the lung to the Right of the yellow line is very well ventilated, oxygen uptake is better BUT it has a smaller volume compared with the dependant ( back ) part of the lung.
Now, turn the patient onto their front and you reverse everything. You now have the larger part of the lung uppermost. A larger lung volume that is now properly ventilated and thus better oxygen uptake.

This is a simplistic explanation because the dependant lung does have better blood flow than the upper section of lung, but congested lung will decrease flow. There are a lot of variables to be considered before using face down ventilation as although it might improve oxygenation it can have depressive effects on heart function and hence kidney function etc:.
It can be a treatment of last resort before reaching for the ECMO ( Extra Corporeal Membrane Oxygenator ), but I very much doubt many patients are offered this form of therapy.

Intensive Care doesn’t cure patients, it buys time for the body to rally and heal itself. If it can’t do that then the outcome is inevitable.

This sort of information is why I love this BB. Yes you could go to a specialist site for every subject but you have far less knowledge of the posters.
I know it sometimes frustrates some members and causes friction but I think the benefits are greater, certainly to me.
I would have put quite a wedge on it that WG would be along soon with a full explanation and diagrams to boot

 

[WelshGas]

One other factor is Abdominal Pressure. Lying on your back , the abdominal contents press on the diaphragm, particularly the back section , thus compressing the back part of the lung, adding to the problem of fluid congestion.
Lying on your front lessens this pressure and if you have a specialist mattress with a depression/hole for the abdomen to drop into then you can completely negate this side effect/problem

 

[pjm-84]

That's interesting. I am unable to sleep on my back when I have a bad cough. I assumed it was gravity on the airway rather than the lungs. So I TRY to sleep upright (generally unsuccessfully until exhaustion take hold and then I flop into a fairly tight recovery position)

When I had a bad cough in Jan I went into the head down off the side of the bed position to allow me to cough. Never done it before, but it felt natural at the time to aid the body with the coughing mechanism