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Dinghy sailing

andyinluton

andyinluton

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I’m watching this thread with interest, Every year for as long as I can remember, I’ve intended to do dinghy sailing course, 2020 I actually had one booked.

This might just spur me on to get it done this year.

Family used to own a boatyard in Maldon & had a fleet of Thames barges - a proper sailing boat.. my great uncle was the designer of the Torch sailing dinghy - it was intended for & used extensively by schools & scouts & he wrote a number of books in the 1960s including Cassells young mariners guide.
 
Nick Stubbs

Nick Stubbs

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Ocean Crossing Wayfarer: To Iceland and Norway in a 16ft Open Dinghy (Paperback)

Frank and Margret Dyer, travel in a wayfarer..
 
Amarillo

Amarillo

Tom
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One question I'm struggling to answer myself is why the GP14's draft is listed as 120cm while the Wayfarer and Enterprise both have a draft of 20cm. Is it because the GP14 has a fixed rudder while the Wayfarer and Enterprise have lifting rudders?

I do like the idea of camping in a Wayfarer. Apparently there is room for two: a mat on the cockpit floor, cover over the boom and snuggle into a sleeping bag. Sausages on a Cadac, a campfire below the high water mark (so long as the tide isn't up) and the setup is complete.

However, the Wayfarer is a beast of a boat, and I'm not sure how easy it is to handle single handed. The GP14 is 36KG lighter, 50cm shorter and 10cm narrower.
 
OGII

OGII

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However, the Wayfarer is a beast of a boat, and I'm not sure how easy it is to handle single handed. The GP14 is 36KG lighter, 50cm shorter and 10cm narrower.
I think your draft assumption is correct.

Any boat this size will be hard to bring ashore and maneuver on your own, especially as most slipways are by definition slopes. I'd work on the premis you will always have help launching and recovering. You can solo sail these boats but the question is why would you, youd probably take a Laser out instead.

As much as the Wayfarer is a beast if you are serious about transits to the IoW and true coastal stuff I'd say the Wayfarer's size and stability is perfect, especially with the 2+2 crew. Much smaller and there would be no room to move, relax etc.

I spent a week day sailing off Leigh on Sea in a Wayfarer as a double hander and it was perfect for that tidal work. As ever see and try before you buy is probably sensible. Im sure Queen Mary or a similar local centre will have one you can use.
 
Nick Stubbs

Nick Stubbs

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One question I'm struggling to answer myself is why the GP14's draft is listed as 120cm while the Wayfarer and Enterprise both have a draft of 20cm. Is it because the GP14 has a fixed rudder while the Wayfarer and Enterprise have lifting rudders?

I do like the idea of camping in a Wayfarer. Apparently there is room for two: a mat on the cockpit floor, cover over the boom and snuggle into a sleeping bag. Sausages on a Cadac, a campfire below the high water mark (so long as the tide isn't up) and the setup is complete.

However, the Wayfarer is a beast of a boat, and I'm not sure how easy it is to handle single handed. The GP14 is 36KG lighter, 50cm shorter and 10cm narrower.
Possibly a typo, my GP neverr had a fixed draft rudder.. And it would float in a puddle.
 
Amarillo

Amarillo

Tom
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Possibly a typo, my GP neverr had a fixed draft rudder.. And it would float in a puddle.

The 120cm or 1200mm is consistent on multiple web pages.

Wikipedia gives two drafts for the Wayfarer (0.2m and 1.169m) and Enterprise (0.2m and 1.17m).

So I expect they must be without and with foils.
 
Amarillo

Amarillo

Tom
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I think your draft assumption is correct.

Any boat this size will be hard to bring ashore and maneuver on your own, especially as most slipways are by definition slopes. I'd work on the premis you will always have help launching and recovering. You can solo sail these boats but the question is why would you, youd probably take a Laser out instead.

As much as the Wayfarer is a beast if you are serious about transits to the IoW and true coastal stuff I'd say the Wayfarer's size and stability is perfect, especially with the 2+2 crew. Much smaller and there would be no room to move, relax etc.

I spent a week day sailing off Leigh on Sea in a Wayfarer as a double hander and it was perfect for that tidal work. As ever see and try before you buy is probably sensible. Im sure Queen Mary or a similar local centre will have one you can use.

I have sailed quite extensively in a GP14 including in the eastern Solent, but never in a Wayfarer, so I guess I have a natural bias to the GP14.

I think that a Wayfarer is better than a GP14 overall, ~10% lower handicap (so about 10% faster), and it can be slept in, but it is about 30% heavier.

There is also a Wayfarer ship builder local to where I would keep it over the summer months.
 
Nick Stubbs

Nick Stubbs

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The 120cm or 1200mm is consistent on multiple web pages.

Wikipedia gives two drafts for the Wayfarer (0.2m and 1.169m) and Enterprise (0.2m and 1.17m).

So I expect they must be without and with foils.
Yes one will be center board down and the lesser number up.
 
Amarillo

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Tom
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I have spoken with my three brothers about what they would recommend.

They are all of the opinion that a Wayfarer is too big and heavy. While we did at one time sail a 16’ boat from the foreshore where we have a house, that was a Fireball which is considerably lighter than a Wayfarer (77Kg vs 169Kg).

Hauling a Wayfarer up the foreshore and into the dinghy park would be a multi-adult job or require a winch. Recovery by car is possible but not practical as it would involve shifting multiple boats in the dinghy park.

So I’m now back to thinking about an Enterprise. Large enough for two adults and two little children, and as the little children morph into teenagers one could sail either the Laser or Topper, or both crew the mirror, if we head out for a family picnic.

An Enterprise would be easier for me to handle solo if I have no willing crew.
 
Nick Stubbs

Nick Stubbs

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I have spoken with my three brothers about what they would recommend.

They are all of the opinion that a Wayfarer is too big and heavy. While we did at one time sail a 16’ boat from the foreshore where we have a house, that was a Fireball which is considerably lighter than a Wayfarer (77Kg vs 169Kg).

Hauling a Wayfarer up the foreshore and into the dinghy park would be a multi-adult job or require a winch. Recovery by car is possible but not practical as it would involve shifting multiple boats in the dinghy park.

So I’m now back to thinking about an Enterprise. Large enough for two adults and two little children, and as the little children morph into teenagers one could sail either the Laser or Topper, or both crew the mirror, if we head out for a family picnic.

An Enterprise would be easier for me to handle solo if I have no willing crew.
"longer sail to the Isle of Wight returning on the flood tide" possibly why the Wayfarer was suggested.
 
OGII

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Not convinced an Enterprise fits the bill but I don't think any family sized dinghy will tick all your boxes.

Sure it's lighter but if the option to recover solo on a foreshore is important they will all be a handful.

A second hand one could be a cheap way to fill the couple of years gap whilst your boys are still small enough to fit.

This thread covers similar debate https://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=5686&OB=ASC

The poster is asking about 2+1 but useful comments, especially about the Enterprise's tippy nature and it being an inland boat. I mostly sailed a club Enterprise double handed on a windswept reservoir and it got the better of us a few times, albeit in heavy winds.

Certainly a good way to while away the dull January days though, thinking about possibilities and summer adventures. No wonder the boat show used to be held about now.
 
Amarillo

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Tom
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"longer sail to the Isle of Wight returning on the flood tide" possibly why the Wayfarer was suggested.

Yes, a passage to the Isle of Wight would be out of the question with four in an Enterprise. Pottering about Chichester Harbour is all we could do as a complete family.
 
Amarillo

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Tom
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Not convinced an Enterprise fits the bill but I don't think any family sized dinghy will tick all your boxes.

Sure it's lighter but if the option to recover solo on a foreshore is important they will all be a handful.

A second hand one could be a cheap way to fill the couple of years gap whilst your boys are still small enough to fit.

This thread covers similar debate https://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=5686&OB=ASC

The poster is asking about 2+1 but useful comments, especially about the Enterprise's tippy nature and it being an inland boat. I mostly sailed a club Enterprise double handed on a windswept reservoir and it got the better of us a few times, albeit in heavy winds.

Certainly a good way to while away the dull January days though, thinking about possibilities and summer adventures. No wonder the boat show used to be held about now.

A great thread - throwing open other options: a Miracle.

My older brother mentioned the Enterprise is a bit tippy. He did a lot of family sailing when he was based on Cyprus and speaks of swamped Enterprises.

Also mentioned in that thread is the Laser 2000 - already in our flotilla, owned by my younger brother. Perhaps we already have what we want.

The GP14 and 2000 are a similar weight and can be recovered solo from the foreshore, a couple of children pushing at the back would make it easier.
 
A

Andrew Beale

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A good thread, and absolutely why our Cali Coast on order is being fitted with a towbar.

A campervan and towed dinghy are such natural companions for one another.

I have been sailing for over 50 years, and would echo the comments above, the Wayfarer being the best sea boat but a bit of a tug up the slipway. Enterprise is too tippy to be really recommended as a family day boat, GP 14 is better in this respect.

It is worth having a look at the Wanderer and Gull - both smaller versions of the Wayfarer at 14' and 11' respectively

Some more sedate options that are unlikely to capsize include
the Tideway 12', (great owners association),
12ft Smacks (they have a photo of a Cali + dinghy on their website),
Cornish Cormorant 12'

Have a look too at the Dinghy Cruising Association website which has loads of practical advice on camping, cruising etc.

And Roger Barnes dinghy cruising videos are the best there are on YouTube.

My dream boat however is the Swallow BayRaider Expedition because of the water ballast tanks which make for speedy sailing in light winds, safe sailing in heavier winds, and easy launching and recovery because of the relatively light weight.

Hope this helps.
 
RoB5urf

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Would recommend the 2000. Lighter than a Wayfarer, more stable than an Ent, arguably more fun than a GP. The asymmetric kite is a doddle to use. Also worth mentioning: it has a nice high boom and kids love the recessed foredeck. They're a very friendly bunch too. I think there are fleets at Chichester and Dell Quay.
 
A

Andrew Beale

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Would recommend the 2000. Lighter than a Wayfarer, more stable than an Ent, arguably more fun than a GP. The asymmetric kite is a doddle to use. Also worth mentioning: it has a nice high boom and kids love the recessed foredeck. They're a very friendly bunch too. I think there are fleets at Chichester and Dell Quay.
Yes the Laser 2k is a great boat, and recommended by all who sail her.
I agree with other posters that you have to think beyond the next couple of years, as the kids will grown into their own boats and out of yours.
While a 2k will hold all four of you, it will be more fun with two, and the lighter weight on the slipway is an advantage over a Wayfarer, even though they are built for very different purposes.
Like buying a Cali itself, the advice with sailing is to just get on with it, you can have fun in just about any boat - don't be tempted to dither about this or that specification, when you will be missing great sailing days out.
 

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