Finance deal confusion

[Elmo3]

Heads I win tails you lose

I wonder if you challenge the fact that VW failed to deliver your vehicle in the prescribed time frame stated at the inception of the contract / or within a reasonable time thereafter (delivery date stated at time of order) it was therefore VW who invariably varied the spirit of the original contract (not the customer).
which now disadvantages the customer, Who through no fault of his / her actions and who has no control over when VW chose to deliver the order, now has to pay more or lose some of the previous benefit of the agreed contract

there is a legal & moral argument which could be upheld.

fianacing in the U.K. is heavily regulated, regulators don’t like the consumer being rolled over and being asked to pay more for goods and services through no fault of their own!
the express intention of the contract was to secure business at a certain finance rate with the intention of delivering a produc within a reasonable time srated at the time of the contract (within a reasonable margin).

VW’s well documented inability to deliver orders or accurately inform customers of delays and potential variation to the original contract (in a timely manner) , should not allow VW to vary the intended contract to the detriment of the paying customer.

You don’t enter into a contract with VWFS when you order a vehicle, you choose to do so upon delivery for the dealer invoice to be settled on your behalf. I’m surprised VWFS are allocating any of their promotions budget to the Cali at all with such a full order book. Anything they offer over and above their standard terms should be treated as a bonus. In the scheme of things on a £50K+ vehicle on which you’ve quite possibly received a circa 12% discount, it’s minor. However, it does underline the importance of understanding the order contract you are signing to avoid any surprises. I understand both sides and of course, if I was in that position I’d be pushing VWFS but at this point in the process, I’d have no contract with them to enforce.

 

[andyinluton]

I agree with @Perfectos . If you happen to have some form of home legal protection/advise, then give them a call and explain along with what is mentioned by him. Very good statement of the situation from a potential claim standpoint.

Who do you think any claim is going to be against?

The OP is buying a van from VW commercials - he has agreed a price & has a signed order. VW commercials have not changed the price so no-one to go after there.

When it comes to paying for the van the OP was shown a quote from VW Financial services ( a totally separate company) as a way of financing the purchase, unless the OP has got a signed accepted finance proposal from VW Financial Services - no contract exists between the OP & VW Financial so no-one to go after there either.

There is nothing at all to stop the OP making his own arrangements for financing the van, via a different finance company.

 

[Perfectos]

You don’t enter into a contract with VWFS when you order a vehicle, you choose to do so upon delivery for the dealer invoice to be settled on your behalf. I’m surprised VWFS are allocating any of their promotions budget to the Cali at all with such a full order book. Anything they offer over and above their standard terms should be treated as a bonus. In the scheme of things on a £50K+ vehicle on which you’ve quite possibly received a circa 12% discount, it’s minor. However, it does underline the importance of understanding the order contract you are signing to avoid any surprises. I understand both sides and of course, if I was in that position I’d be pushing VWFS but at this point in the process, I’d have no contract with them to enforce.

Hi Elmo,

inagree with a lot of what you said, but let’s not forget, VWFS is interconnected with VW vehicle sales!

VWFS is the preferred finance house for dealers, incentives are provided by dealers to use VWFS!

VWFS is inextricably linked with VWUK and ultimately GMBH. The fact that VWFS has been set up as a separate shell of a company does not allow the VW brand to use that to their advantage at the expense of the customer, particularly when VW have not honoured their side of the original deal.

Why would the customer assume, at the point of contract, that VW as a Group would reneague on their part of the deal, directly causing the original contract to varied at the loss of the customer!

this is both a Morale point, point of law / Regulatory interest.

Regulation can only be put in place retrospectively to protect the consumer (i.e once an organisation steps out of line) the motor industry and Finance are heavily regulated simply because of the historical under had tactics employ within the industry, therefore regulators stepped in to set the boundaries we have today, that is not to say that if regulators feel the consumer is getting a raw deal they will not step up and take manufacturers and finance companies to task (and impose massive sanctions/ fines w here applicable)

with VW‘s relatively recent history with under hand tactics, you would have thought that making a quick buck would be the last thing they should be doing to protect their brand !

whichever way you look at this the consumer is loosing out: late delivery vs promise + pay more for the privilege ? Moral or immoral ?

IMO VW Group and VWFS would need to tread very carefully if there were enough complaints for regulators to step in ?

 

[Perfectos]

Who do you think any claim is going to be against?

The OP is buying a van from VW commercials - he has agreed a price & has a signed order. VW commercials have not changed the price so no-one to go after there.

When it comes to paying for the van the OP was shown a quote from VW Financial services ( a totally separate company) as a way of financing the purchase, unless the OP has got a signed accepted finance proposal from VW Financial Services - no contract exists between the OP & VW Financial so no-one to go after there either.

There is nothing at all to stop the OP making his own arrangements for financing the van, via a different finance company.

Hi Andy,

I understand the semantics of the issue, however, this is not normal.

VWGroup which VWFS are part of a group “VW” & have a moral duty, courts look very dimly on this type of thing, particularly where and Arm of a Group is seen to be making the consumer fill the Gap !

I wonder if you were in the same position if your stance would be the same.

 

[andyinluton]

Hi Andy,

I understand the semantics of the issue, however, this is not normal.

VWGroup which VWFS are part of have a moral duty, courts look very dimly on this type of thing, particularly where and Arm of a Group is seen to be making the consumer fill the Gap !

I wonder if you were in the same position if your stance would be the same.

1. Don't get me wrong, If I was the OP I would be extremely annoyed.

2. I'm trying to look at it objectively - both as someone who buys & sells cars high value cars frequently so know exactly what the dealers get up to & as a proud parent of someone who spends his days putting together court cases for trading standards & is bang up to date on consumer law etc.

3. having bought a few new 911s over the years, this is standard for VW. If it was a Porsche that had been ordered the OP would have been hit with a couple of price rises by now as well as the finance changing.

4. The Q1 deal coincided with a price rise, If you want the Q1 deal shouldn't you accept the Q1 price rise? I am sure it's not a coincidence that the saving on the finance deals canceled out the price rise if doing a PCP.

 

[Elmo3]

Hi Elmo,

inagree with a lot of what you said, but let’s not forget, VWFS is interconnected with VW vehicle sales!

VWFS is the preferred finance house for dealers, incentives are provided by dealers to use VWFS!

VWFS is inextricably linked with VWUK and ultimately GMBH. The fact that VWFS has been set up as a separate shell of a company does not allow the VW brand to use that to their advantage at the expense of the customer, particularly when VW have not honoured their side of the original deal.

Why would the customer assume, at the point of contract, that VW as a Group would reneague on their part of the deal, directly causing the original contract to varied at the loss of the customer!

this is both a Morale point, point of law / Regulatory interest.

Regulation can only be put in place retrospectively to protect the consumer (i.e once an organisation steps out of line) the motor industry and Finance are heavily regulated simply because of the historical under had tactics employ within the industry, therefore regulators stepped in to set the boundaries we have today, that is not to say that if regulators feel the consumer is getting a raw deal they will not step up and take manufacturers and finance companies to task (and impose massive sanctions/ fines w here applicable)

with VW‘s relatively recent history with under hand tactics, you would have thought that making a quick buck would be the last thing they should be doing to protect their brand !

whichever way you look at this the consumer is loosing out: late delivery vs promise + pay more for the privilege ? Moral or immoral ?

IMO VW Group and VWFS would need to tread very carefully if there were enough complaints for regulators to step in ?

VWFS sell their paper (finance agreements) as asset backed securities to third parties. In order to do so, they have to be a completely separate company to VW the vehicle manufacturer. A customer is under no obligation, nor do they have a contract, to use VWFS’s money to pay for the vehicle they have ordered from VW.

I understand the moral position, however, VWFS are clear in terms of dates of their promotions. I note that they now state offers apply for vehicles ordered by, rather than delivered by. I’d be having a sensible conversation with VWFS around this but fully understanding they have absolutely no obligation to offer previous terms today.

 

[Swiss Cheese]

Who do you think any claim is going to be against?

2. ... & as a proud parent of someone who spends his days putting together court cases for trading standards & is bang up to date on consumer law etc.

As I suggested, OP might call on some legal advise if he has such access that will cost him little/nothing. He may well be told he has no case, or they may suggest a strong worded letter to all parties and see what sticks.
It would be interesting to see what your son/daughter suggests if they are willing.

Ultimately it's a shame that a customer feels hard done by through no apparent fault of his own, other than perhaps not understanding or expecting the worse case to happen.

 

[VWCoastbusters]

@iain

I originally ordered my Van early December on the 3.6 APR 4 yr PCP deal but shortly after (January) a new Q1 deal came out which I was told I could switch to (and California Chris even said in his videos and the comments said we would be able to switch to). The new figures were sent to me and I agreed that's what we would proceed on (nothing signed). The new deal was better as it was lower APR (2.9) and was a 5 year PCP deal so the payments were much more affordable. Now I am being told that as my Van has arrived after Q1 then I cannot have that deal, even though it is VW's delays that have pushed me beyond that date. My options are now the new Q2 deal which is much worse or back on the original December deal which I have since totally discounted as an option and changed the amount I was putting in and the monthly payments I have budgeted for. This is all happening a few days before I am due to pick up the Van. The dealer is now going to "see what they can do" by speaking to VW finance but didn't sound too hopeful. Does anyone have any experience of this or know where I stand as I'm pretty furious? It’s actually stressing me out now and really tainting what should have been the most enjoyable purchase I’ve ever made, and it was already bad with the communication and delays.

Hi Iain

Any news on how you got on?

 

[Iain-Le-Roi]

@iain


Hi Iain

Any news on how you got on?

Hi .. I was meant to post an update today but been crazy at work. So, I have arranged to pick my van up tomorrow. Its on the original deal and over 4 years unfortunately but obviously with the better deposit contribution that was available last year so I am not too much worse off. They have thrown in a sweetener, It's not much but I wasn't going to accept absolutely nothing so it got me off their backs. Leaves a bit of a sour taste but then that's been the case with VW throughout unfortunately. Just hope its plane sailing from here on. I'm excited to be picking up the van tomorrow. The real sick-ner was I'd hoped to get the van Saturday morning for the BH weekend but they couldn't even manage that due to cocking up the paperwork.

 

[SJL178]

@iain


Hi Iain

Any news on how you got on?

Just to add my findings, Dealer contacted me today and collection arranged for Friday! Finance paperwork has been sent through and figure quoted was the exact figure i expected.

I changed from the 3.6% deal (£1000 contribution and £99 for 2 services), to the recent offer of 2.9% and £600 contribution. I have already agreed to take out a 4 service plan and extended warranty so not too fussed about the lose of the service, but i was unable to negotiate the £1000 worth of options with the move of finance deal??

All in, i am happy with the change to lower rate finance and long term will more than cover the lose of the options package.

I did contact the dealer whilst the offer was valid and had the quotation drawn out which was then approved by VW finance, maybe this was the reason i have not had to battle?

 

[Iain-Le-Roi]

This is really frustrating as after several arguments on the phone my dealer told me that it was impossible. When did you place your initial order?


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[SJL178]

I initially ordered on the 24th September, with the order being accepted by VW on the 8th October.

Such a shame that the communication and clearly the customer service is not on a par with other premium brands, does take the initial shine off. Just hope the finished product makes up for it!

Glad to hear you were at least able to reach an agreement, dont forget the photo's once you collect.

 

[Iain-Le-Roi]

I initially ordered on the 24th September, with the order being accepted by VW on the 8th October.

Such a shame that the communication and clearly the customer service is not on a par with other premium brands, does take the initial shine off. Just hope the finished product makes up for it!

Glad to hear you were at least able to reach an agreement, dont forget the photo's once you collect.

What dealership did you order through please? Sounds as if they have looked after you much better.

 

[SJL178]

Only in these final weeks, nothing from them in the first 5 months , much like the reports from everyone else. Ordered from Preston VWCV.

 

[BeagleMum]

This is really frustrating as after several arguments on the phone my dealer told me that it was impossible. When did you place your initial order?


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Iain where are you purchasing from?

 

[Iain-Le-Roi]

Iain where are you purchasing from?

It’s from Liverpool which I believe is the same group as the Preston one.

 

[BeagleMum]

It’s from Liverpool which I believe is the same group as the Preston one.

We thought it would be given the issues you’ve described. We hope you enjoy your Cali when you get it.

 

[jMacdent]

This is really frustrating as after several arguments on the phone my dealer told me that it was impossible. When did you place your initial order?


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Is you deal through Drivethedeal or Autoebid with a massively discounted price already?

 

[Iain-Le-Roi]

Is you deal through Drivethedeal or Autoebid with a massively discounted price already?

No, it was directly through the van centre