Front end setup

sidepod · Sep 28, 2018

So I’ve been studying the tech manual with regards to front end setup.

For reasons unknown I’m running an asymmetrical front end! Hardly ideal so it needs rectified ASAP.

Interestingly the 111kw (150hp) runs more negative camber (-1 deg 40”) than the lesser power models for a ride height of 257mm (measured at front damper bolt centres)

Has anyone had a full 4 wheel alignment done? It would be interesting to see what settings were used.

Padraic · Sep 28, 2018

Can I ask what an asymmetrical front end is/means???

sidepod · Sep 28, 2018

It means that the previous owner(s) at some point adjusted the camber with different values on each side!

I’ve always thought it never quite looked even but convinced myself there had been a non standard wing put on (the 150 has slightly wider arch lips I believe?). Perhaps an odd assumption on my part but I could hardly imagine the camber would be set oddly.

Anyway I’m going to correct it and go for 2 degrees of negative with a rear ARB.
I do prefer a front wheel drive vehicle to be a bit lift off oversteery.

Padraic · Sep 28, 2018

sidepod said:
It means that the previous owner(s) at some point adjusted the camber with different values on each side!

I’ve always thought it never quite looked even but convinced myself there had been a non standard wing put on (the 150 has slightly wider arch lips I believe?). Perhaps an odd assumption on my part but I could hardly imagine the camber would be set oddly.

Anyway I’m going to correct it and go for 2 degrees of negative with a rear ARB.
I do prefer a front wheel drive vehicle to be a bit lift off oversteery.

Okay I understand. The camber should be the same on either side, shouldn't it?
Is the camber adjusted by moving the oval slot that can be seen on top of the hub when the wheel is off?
If it is, I've noticed that one side of mine is set different than the other.

sidepod · Sep 28, 2018

Indeed it is and yes it should be the same (unless you’re in an Indy car racing around an oval!!)

Castor is also adjustable via the eccentric lower arm pivot bolt.
Castor, among other things, is what causes your steering to self centre after you take a corner.

GrannyJen · Sep 28, 2018

My gin is often asymmetrical after a night away :shocked

Steve&Bev · Sep 29, 2018

GrannyJen said:
My gin is often asymmetrical after a night away

this is a technical thread, sidepod would be more interested knowing whether you toe in or out!!

GrannyJen · Sep 29, 2018

Steve&Bev said:
this is a technical thread, sidepod would be more interested knowing whether you toe in or out!!

Well mr @sidepod can dance with all his toes but the moment that humour deserts this forum is the moment this forum dies.

Steve&Bev · Sep 29, 2018

GrannyJen said:
Well mr @sidepod can dance with all his toes but the moment that humour deserts this forum is the moment this forum dies.

I was

GrannyJen said:
Well mr @sidepod can dance with all his toes but the moment that humour deserts this forum is the moment this forum dies.

oops, looks like you missed the hidden inuendo in my reply, I have been giggling all day at it.

Erbster · Sep 30, 2018

I had a 4 wheel alignment done on my 150dsg Ocean by my local dealer. Here is the data sheet

https://caliventures364847572.wordpress.com/

sidepod · Sep 30, 2018

Erbster said:
I had a 4 wheel alignment done on my 150dsg Ocean by my local dealer. Here is the data sheet

https://caliventures364847572.wordpress.com/

Wow! So it left the factory on the wee wee!!!
Almost a degree out left to right!

Interesting they used a target of just 45” of neg camber!

Unless I’m missing a measurement, they didn’t check the rake (inclination or slope from front to back? There is actually a VW special tool for checking this.

sidepod · Sep 30, 2018

My post got censored!!!

Erbster · Sep 30, 2018

sidepod said:
Wow! So it left the factory on the wee wee!!!
Almost a degree out left to right!

Interesting they used a target of just 45” of neg camber!

Unless I’m missing a measurement, they didn’t check the rake (inclination or slope from front to back? There is actually a VW special tool for checking this.

Well, I don’t know much (anything) about wheel alignment. I took the van in because of a drowning noise, which turned out to be uneven tyre wear. I expressed surprise at having to buy new tyres after less than 20k miles and that when the dealer lowered the van at purchase, I did not get an alignment report, so how did I know it was done properly...
They did not argue and did this alignment check (as well as other things to keep me happy). They did say clipping the kerb could knock any wheel out of alignment at any time.
I have since learned from @vwguru’s posts that uneven rear tyre wear is common on the T6

https://caliventures364847572.wordpress.com/

Legin · Oct 1, 2018

These numbers on a high performance car would be terrible but amount to being a non issue for a van with the exception of the rear toe in which is right on the limit and infact just over.
However meeting a spec doesnt mean its good enough its only wriggle room to save having to build and set to accurate tolerances which cost money.
Reading the numbers its no surprise that the rear tyres will scrub from the outer edge inwards.

If its adjustable for rear toe then get that corrected and leave the rest. Keep in mind your current set up is very safe as the van will understeer and as you move towards straight ahead and then toe out it will transition towards neutral and then oversteer characteristics. I would suggest you want what VW target ie 15 minutes per side at the moment your double this.

sidepod · Oct 1, 2018

How can you say it’s a non issue for a van? That’s a ridiculous statement.

Having everything pointing in the the right direction is optimising what you have.

As far as altering the characteristics of the vans handling away from “safe” is precisely what I’m after, a more pointy feel on turn in, not because I’m trying to turn it into a hot rod but simply because it’ll be a more enjoyable drive.

Legin · Oct 1, 2018

Look this isnt a response to you its for erbster who is trying to sort a tyre wear issue. Correct camber to be equal either side and I guarantee erbster will not notice. I have no idea from what authority on suspension set up you speak.

The settings have massive tolerances from VW for a reason and that is a van is far less sensitive than a lotus due to tyre wall heights and suspension kinematics.

I will leave Erbster to decide whom is the ridiculous one.