How did you decide how much to spend?

[The Furzleys]

Hi there, we're at the early stages of buying (hopefully!) a camper. We've got as far as knowing we want something with a Cali Beach type set up - so no built in kitchen, but pop up roof, rock and roll bed. We initially were thinking we were going to spend about £15-£20k - so we were thinking we'd get something older - and/or perhaps getting an older transporter and having it converted to the spec we want.

However the newer vehicles do look so tempting, and we do have more savings - but it would be a stretch and we're just nervous about sinking such a huge amount into a vehicle - incase we find ourselves needing the money at some point. So we've started to wonder about depreciation as a factor as well. We're wondering if maybe there are benefits to spending more, that we hadn't considered? And that maybe if we sold it in 3-4 years time is it possible that we might have 'spent' the same in that time on an old one as a new one - in which case why not spend that 3-4 years enjoying a newer vehicle?

I'd be really interested if anyone has any wisdom on this - and to hear how you came to the decision to go for the age van you went for?

If you went for a really new one, with the plan to sell again in a few years, did you find you were able to enjoy it without constantly worrying about doing something that would devalue it?

On the other hand, did you get an older cheaper van that you could really relax about using for moving furniture, trips to the dump etc?!

 

[calikev]

There are some cali's for sale at the moment that are priced more than they cost new at 3 years old so I wouldn't worry on that front

 

[Hotel California]

We can not decide on your financials .

All i know is , i saved 20y for money on the bank.
After sold my (own) flat , got a house with my (back then girlfriend now wife) i just wanted a Cali sooo bad i spent 1/4 of the price i paid at the house (before renovation) to a showroom Cali .
Very happy with it now almost 5y later

If you want it.... get it , don't buy with common sense ...buy with your hart.
Spending that ammount of money on a campervan is crazy ...but this forum is loaded with crazy people....

 

[DM]

As HC says it has to be what you are comfortable with.

Like you we started off thinking we'd be able to pick up a 3-4 year old one and then upgrade later. But when we actually started looking at what we wanted we decided the Cali would be a once only purchase that we will keep for many years - so we wanted the flexibility to choose our own options. And ended up ordering a new one and accepting the financial implications that go with that!

Whether it works out the way we intended, only time will tell. But no regrets so far

 

[Mr & Mrs B]

When we started looking at campervans we saw loads of conversions and a California. Whilst the layout of the California may not suit everyone, it's the best layout for us and our needs. We looked at the cost a second hand vehicle and compared it to a new vehicle which we could spec to our exact needs and decided to go for a new one - the money has come from cashing in my pension. Yes, it does make us slightly nervous we've spent so much money on Cali, but we don't see it as spending money on a vehicle, we see it as spending money on a lifestyle. We collect Cali on Wednesday, so we'll soon see if we've made the right decision!

 

[Max-Felix]

I'm going to cut and paste a post I made earlier tonight on another topic as I'm too lazy to write all the same again and it's relative to your used vs new thoughts:

This is an aside but do also look at the cost implications very carefully when thinking of maybe a last of line high spec 2015 T5 at maybe £45k versus going all out brand new factory fresh T6? You could be liable for the first service then after a year the MOT and then of course the warranty runs out in 2018. Two years on and it's cambelt time etc.

A pretty well specced auto 150 T6 brand new is around £55k to which you can cut a % for the usual dealer discounts - this then is truly brand new with all the benefits that brings + of course three years warranty and breakdown cover, no MOT worries etc, etc.

The biggest cost of course is depreciation which is somewhat tricky to calculate on Calis into the future as the prices have risen so much.

I've done these calcs very carefully before on certain high performance BMW's and buying new rather than three years old approved all things considered actually worked out cheaper, in part due to very large model discounts notwithstanding the fact you were in a brand new vehicle not one someone else had blatted about in for 25,000 miles!

Back to this topic:

And if you want to think about a lower budget then consider the Bilbos below just listed and try and get it for £15k. Awesome tank like good old T4 base and the Bilbos conversion means depreciation should be zero if you look after it. How I wish VW would make base models like this - steel wheels, windy windows, grey bumpers, minimal electronics, sensors, engine management - just solid engineering. A very tempting and gorgeous camper.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/252867120737

 

[WelshGas]

Hi there, we're at the early stages of buying (hopefully!) a camper. We've got as far as knowing we want something with a Cali Beach type set up - so no built in kitchen, but pop up roof, rock and roll bed. We initially were thinking we were going to spend about £15-£20k - so we were thinking we'd get something older - and/or perhaps getting an older transporter and having it converted to the spec we want.

However the newer vehicles do look so tempting, and we do have more savings - but it would be a stretch and we're just nervous about sinking such a huge amount into a vehicle - incase we find ourselves needing the money at some point. So we've started to wonder about depreciation as a factor as well. We're wondering if maybe there are benefits to spending more, that we hadn't considered? And that maybe if we sold it in 3-4 years time is it possible that we might have 'spent' the same in that time on an old one as a new one - in which case why not spend that 3-4 years enjoying a newer vehicle?

I'd be really interested if anyone has any wisdom on this - and to hear how you came to the decision to go for the age van you went for?

If you went for a really new one, with the plan to sell again in a few years, did you find you were able to enjoy it without constantly worrying about doing something that would devalue it?

On the other hand, did you get an older cheaper van that you could really relax about using for moving furniture, trips to the dump etc?!

I think you should look at it from the other side.
Have you researched the cost of a conversion of a van to the equivalent of a Beach?
Do you require more than 2 seats whilst driving?
A good Pop Top roof with bed would probably cost close to £5000 installed.
A good, pull tested Rocknroll bed, so that you can carry passengers would probably set you back £3000 + and would be in a fixed position.
Fitting a Diesel Heater, as in a Beach, with the associated electrics and leisure battery probably another £2000. Next, if you want swivelling front seats and sound proofing, ply lining and wall carpeting together with windows on the sides and rear plus flooring then you are probably looking at another £1000 - £2000.
With your budget of £20,000 that means £8000 for the Base van to convert.

You would be extremely lucky to get a reasonable mileage reliable vehicle with a good history with AirCon, electric windows etc: that a Beach has as standard and it will be classed as a Commercial vehicle N1, with Commercial vehicle speed limits.

When you come to sell you would be lucky to get back 50% of the conversion costs and the base vehicle would have depreciated further as well.

Now, if you did the conversion yourself then you could save 30% + on the costings I have mentioned, so more to spend on the base vehicle.

 

[Jay586]

Conversions can have sliding seats now. Have a look at what Celtic Motorhomes can do. Their Facebook page is pretty informative about what goes to make a quality conversion.
However, their conversions cost roughly 20k & most of that is actual components, as stated above, good quality beds & roofs do not come cheap...

 

[WelshGas]

Conversions can have sliding seats now. Have a look at what Celtic Motorhomes can do. Their Facebook page is pretty informative about what goes to make a quality conversion.
However, their conversions cost roughly 20k & most of that is actual components, as stated above, good quality beds & roofs do not come cheap...

At additional cost. If I had priced a top class conversion there wouldn't have been much left for the base van.

 

[Jay586]

At additional cost. If I had priced a top class conversion there wouldn't have been much left for the base van.

Sorry, to clarify, 20k is the cost of the conversion, not including the base van.

 

[Verity]

The way we looked at it was that a Cali would hold its value pretty well. Even if we didn't like it and only kept it a few years, the 'rental' value (i.e depreciation) would be worth it to us. I think you have to make your choice and live with it. We started off looking at conversions and older models but decided that, in the end, to get everything we wanted a VW Cali was the best option, and the safest bet for resale if we either (a) hated it (which we don't!) or (b) suffered a financial blow further down the line and needed to sell it.

 

[sidepod]

Simple flow chart.

Q. Do you want it?
A. Yes

Q. Have you got the money?
A. Yes

Buy it.

A. No.
Q. Can you get the money?
A. Yes.

Buy it.

 

[soulstyledevon]

Conversions can have sliding seats now. Have a look at what Celtic Motorhomes can do. Their Facebook page is pretty informative about what goes to make a quality conversion.
However, their conversions cost roughly 20k & most of that is actual components, as stated above, good quality beds & roofs do not come cheap...

Exact route and decisions I had some years ago. Although I had owned, self-converted vans, which will save you massive amounts of money.
However quality roofs and seat/beds are very expensive.
I did the sums and not much difference between buying a well specced Beach and converting a panel van.
After the previous self builds I had, which were very good also. We decided to go for the Beach. It was the well thought out storage of the Beach that won us over in the end.
Check out newwaveconversions also very good, not cheap though

 

[The Furzleys]

Thanks so much for all the replies - you've totally understood what I'm getting at and the dilemma we have. All really useful information - which we're going to digest (when we're not in the midst of easter egg hunts etc!) and then do more research.

At the moment the most interesting idea is Max-Felix's Bilbos idea - so that's going to be something we'll look into more. I'm still very tempted by going much newer - other half is holding the purse strings a little tighter currently

 

[Stuart]

Just hang about here and browse Autotrader for a couple of months ... suddenly spending 40k becomes quite acceptable!

 

[Mister Baker]

My wife and I spent a year looking at various T5 conversions, including some young but hard worked vans(ex Plumbers etc), some people including garages wanting some silly money because its a VW Campervan. In the end we got a California, more money than we wanted to spend, but we thought this is going to last for years and has been built properly in the VW factory.

 

[Borris]

Here's my ten pen'orth for what it's worth.
IMO, when considering buying anything in life it's always best to at least start by using the following formula:

1. Identify the best and most appropriate tool for the job in hand.
2. Work out how/if you can afford it.

The answer to step two will either result in joy or disappointment. If the latter then step 3 will almost certainly involve compromise which in my experience often leads to further disappointment. So again IMO, unless the need for a similar but less appropriate item is pressing, it can often be best not bother at all.

Re the campervan thing, after several years of research and weighing up all the various issues, for us at least, the Cali Beach showed itself to be the most appropriate tool for our purposes. Others will come to their own quite different and equally valid conclusions. Unfortunately having reached our conclusion we then discovered that unsurprisingly, there were insufficient funds in the piggy bank to cover the cost of buying one. So rather than compromising, the whole idea was shelved until our circumstances had changed. We now have a Beach and it was well worth the wait.

Given your 20k conversion budget along with the additional costs of buying a decent base vehicle, that would probably put you well into second hand California territory. So unless you specifically want to convert your own van then I would look for a good second hand California instead. That way you will be getting a wonderful purpose built vehicle that won't have already suffered a hard life as a builders van. You wont have all the hard work and you can use it straight away. Remember summer is on the way!

Just my take.

P.s Don't buy one without a parking heater.

 

[kave]

We can not decide on your financials .

All i know is , i saved 20y for money on the bank.
Afther sold my (own) flat , got a house with my (back then girlfriend now wife) i just wanted a Cali sooo bad i spent 1/4 of the price i paid at the house (before renovation) to a showroom Cali .
Very happy with it now almost 5y later

If you want it.... get it , don't buy with common sens ...buy with your hart.
Spending that ammount of money on a campervan is crazy ...but this forum is loaded with crazy people....

I realize I spent 1/2 of the money I spent on the house on a Cali

The most expensive and time consuming thing for most people is to buy cheap at first and then be less happy needing to get a better one, unless you are happy to switch cars all the time. Even though I do business for living I don't like to buy and sell cars often so when buying now I make sure I buy what I want. If I cant afford it I wait another year to get it. The worst experience I have had regarding cars is when I got a cheap Subaru without engine (100hp). I forced myself to use it to save money but ended up trading it in after 1 year. That was an expensive experience.

 

[owen_h]

I was in a similar position to the OP about 4 years ago. Had spent months (years) keeping an eye on Autotrader & other websites looking for either converted vans or reasonable spec base vehicles that could be converted. It was while in my local VW dealer looking at a used base vehicle that the salesman asked if I had considered a Beach. At that time I hadn’t heard of the Beach as it was reasonably new to the UK. The full SE California’s weren’t coming up in my searches as beyond my budget. Generally I wasn’t impressed with the majority of used conversions I looked at, either the units were poorly made or there were compromises with the roof or rear seats. The base vehicles were often low spec/ power as well, perhaps ‘chipped’ so the headline bhp looked better. Was impressed by the Bilbo’s though.

In the end I came down to 2 options: 1) buy a new or demonstrator van and take it to one of the few conversion companies that I was impressed by. Or 2) Buy a (ex demo) Beach and get a kitchen pod. For me option 2) made most sense as it meant I didn’t have to find a converter who I liked and could do the work in time for the holiday season, also I wouldn’t have to be without a vehicle while the conversion was taking place.

In terms of cost I originally had a £25k budget. Ended up spending £31k on the Beach and making the kitchen pod myself. Parking heater was added later at cost of £1200. Yes used more savings than I wanted but suspect that unexpected conversion costs would have put be above the £25k budget anyway. Don’t regret the choice of a Beach, for me it’s the best choice, fewest compromises and overspend/extra wait is now forgotten. Suspect I would get back a fair chunk of the £32k if I sold it now (but have no intention of doing so unless circumstances change).

If budget (or saving timescale) cant be exceeded then perhaps look at other base vehicles on which to convert? Transit Custom / Renault Trafic/ Toyota iLoad are all similar size and don’t have the VW ‘Scene’ premium (or residuals ) .

Oh and with a Cali you don’t get carpet on the walls!

 

[BikerGran]

I set my budget at £25k and went to look at a conversion just over that - ended up spending £32k on a 9 year old SE - but it came with loads of extras that I would probably have ended up buying later AND - I fell instantly, totally and completely in love with it - now THAT's an excellent reason for buying!

Oh yes and after enquiring about various advertised ones that turned out to be dodgy (scam) adverts I bought from a reputable dealer, which probably cost me more again but I'm happier knowing it had a full service and habitation check before I collected it, and that there will probably be a ready market for it there when I'm ready to part with it.

 

[pjm-84]

Budget started at £25k to £30k but after looking at a conversion locally it was upped. As the cost of used vehicles were relatively high we ended up buying new and having the specification we wanted.

The other thing to consider is whilst its a relatively expensive purchase the depreciation on the vehicle is low.

 

[Tetley2]

In short, if I were you I would buy the best used California you can
comfortably afford without any form of credit and then enjoy it.
Possibly a Beach and fit kitchen pod as has already been mentioned.
I personally would stay away from convertors with the possible exception of the higher end like Bilbo who can be just as expensive.
I tend not worry about depreciation either, the California facilitates the lifestyle we want and that's priceless.

 

[CYCLOPATH]

I hired different vans for a few years , just for a summer holidays
All different sorts......I quite like the bongo, they are great value
We even slept on the back of our estate....to Spain and back ...and a massive American Ford Explorer .....3 roomed Mercedes
But the Cali , for me was by far the best and Worth every penny, bought as an ex demo