ID. BUZZ is too heavy for a California version.

[Pollewop]

According to several posts the ID. BUZZ will not be available (soon) as a California, because the total weight would make it illegal to drive it with a B category driving licence. So, it seems that it's then end for this project for now...

Volkswagen delays ID.Buzz California electric camper due to added weight

If you were waiting for the full-fledged electric camper version of the Volkswagen ID.Buzz, you will have to wait a...

electrek.co

 

[Corradobrit]

No surprises here. Especially given the need for at least 110kW battery for a practical real world range. I can foresee similar issues with the Multivan Cali and its payload and towing limitations too.

 

[Ch1pbutty]

Keep the ‘old’ Cali & get a decent EV as 2nd car instead.

 

[OooOooTheMonkey]

T6.1 values may well go up then when they stop making them. For some things you just can’t beat a diesel engine. In many ways I think this could be a watershed moment as regulations change to lower emissions. Even the Multivan Cali looks like it could have 2 sliding doors so not the “normal” setup.

 

[soulstyledevon]

T6.1 values may well go up then when they stop making them. For some things you just can’t beat a diesel engine. In many ways I think this could be a watershed moment as regulations change to lower emissions. Even the Multivan Cali looks like it could have 2 sliding doors so not the “normal” setup.

Van chassis and diesel engine, it’s a winning formula. Trying to base a camper on a car platform will never work.
As @Ch1pbutty said, EV car for the running around town stuff and a van type vehicle for the longer heavy duty activities.

It’s easy to see why we need to rid diesels to a point. After a recent trip to France, their town and city air pollution seems terrible.
Mostly, because everyone drives crappy little Peugeot and Renault diesels over small distances.
This is what needs eliminating…!!!

 

[RockinNRollin]

I was actually stood next to a T7 Multivan earlier this morning; my 6.1 wasn't with me, but on face value the T7 *appeared* to be smaller! I think the rear of the T7 looks really awkward too tbh.

I do like the Buzz but as a day-to-day family transport, not a camper solution.

 

[RosscoPCole74]

What about the new Transporter that is being developed in conjunction with the new Ford Transit Custom? Will there be a California version of that? When I had a look around an iD Buzz it just seemed too small to be a practical camper in the same category as the current California.

 

[Corradobrit]

What about the new Transporter that is being developed in conjunction with the new Ford Transit Custom? Will there be a California version of that? When I had a look around an iD Buzz it just seemed too small to be a practical camper in the same category as the current California.

Without a direct successor to the T6.1 I think VW will have to proceed with the Ford Transit collaboration. I wonder how the current Amarok/Ranger sales are though. I don't think I've seen one on the road in Germany.

 

[WelshGas]

There will be multiple " Californias " ranging from the Caddy California to the Grand California, with a Multivan and Ford/VW based version in-between which will possibly be petrol/ hybrid versions in the first instance.

 

[SamSara]

According to several posts the ID. BUZZ will not be available (soon) as a California, because the total weight would make it illegal to drive it with a B category driving licence. So, it seems that it's then end for this project for now...

Volkswagen delays ID.Buzz California electric camper due to added weight

If you were waiting for the full-fledged electric camper version of the Volkswagen ID.Buzz, you will have to wait a...

electrek.co

That makes me a little sad. I was rather hoping on getting one for my 60th birthday with trading in my current/next. Time to consider the Nissan EV perhaps

 

[Corradobrit]

Time to consider the Nissan EV perhaps

Sure you can live with the 100-120mile range?

 

[Borris]

"It can be done, but Volkswagen does not have the technology right now to make it practical."

Whilst Cali-ising an ID Buzz would clearly present some major issues, is this not just code for, We are in serious financial trouble and just can't afford it at present?

 

[OooOooTheMonkey]

"It can be done, but Volkswagen does not have the technology right now to make it practical."

Whilst Cali-ising an ID Buzz would clearly present some major issues, is this just code for, We are in serious financial trouble and just can't afford it at present?

Not so sure about this. They probably don’t consider a 120 mile range practical (neither do I). More range means bigger battery and that would make it too heavy. I’m not the slightest surprised it’s not doable with a decent range without excessive weight and space that may not exist on the chassis.

 

[Kernowboy]

Had to queue again at Exeter services for a charger on the way to the airport on Monday; had to give up in the end so that’ll be another hour or so in the way home at 0300 next week. The supporting infrastructure may be developing but not quickly enough to keep up with demand; the situation is getting worse not better. It’s not just the vehicles that need to improve - for now at least anything ev is great for local stuff but still a long way off before I would consider going all in.

 

[OooOooTheMonkey]

Had to queue again at Exeter services for a charger on the way to the airport on Monday; had to give up in the end so that’ll be another hour or so in the way home at 0300 next week. The supporting infrastructure may be developing but not quickly enough to keep up with demand; the situation is getting worse not better. It’s not just the vehicles that need to improve - for now at least anything ev is great for local stuff but still a long way off before I would consider going all in.

Agree. We have an EV but I would take the Cali on a really long trip unless I had luxury of time. An EV with great range helps a lot though as it gives way more freedom. Our WLTP is 340 miles (in reality can expect 300 miles of real world driving), which is enough that we have never had range anxiety with it. We can get from Winchester to Manchester in one charge in the summer. We wouldn’t want less than that as typically only charge to 80% and worse performance in the winter, so in the worst conditions it still has superb range.

In the short to medium term for a Buzz Cali ideally there would need to be pitches available with EV charging capability. Given the dire situation of some hookups currently and the investment required to do this I think it’s a very long way off. And the cost they’d charge you to use one of those pitches would be astronomical and make diesel the cheaper option probably. Without this you’d have to spend hours charging each day on route so you’re not exactly going to get far or enjoy the journey…

 

[Pollewop]

I think that in the (near) future we will see that many of the ambitious energy transition initiatives, promoting electrification and getting rid of fossil fuels, will have to be downgraded, postponed or even be cancelled. The current technology is just not developed enough.

Regarding the electrification of vehicles there are many limitations popping up:

• Loading capacity of cars is limited due to electric grid limitations. Not easy to change.
• Limited battery capacity with the current technology, leading to a limited driving range.
• For long range travelling: long loading time, leading to queues at recharging stations. Infrastructure is lagging behind severely.

Also hydrogen as a fuel is still far away (imho) and not a feasible option:

• Terribly energy inefficient to make.
• There is not enough energy available to make the required amount of hydrogen.

So it looks like that fossil fuels will be around longer than anticipated by some…

 

[Borris]

As for their being an extended range of Californias of varying sizes built on what seems like any chassis they've got handy, I can't see that being a very long lived policy.

Firstly, it's clearly a marketing ploy to piggy back off of a proven and successful product. Secondly, the traditional Cali works and I'm not sure some of these other "Californias" will have the same appeal to most potential buyers. I don't know what the sales figures of the current Caddy and Grand California models are but I would be genuinely surprised if they sell that many of either. To me at least the former is too small and the latter too big in either form to attract big sales numbers. Further variants, would have to at least tick as many boxes as the current T6/T6-1 without serious disadvantages to stand a chance long term.

The current T6 California in any form works well because it has broadly the same footprint as a family car, can go anywhere, sleeps four adults, provides it's owners with a high degree of versatility, has a long range with a good pay load, is not reliant on an iffy charging infrastructure and all whilst having a long well established pedigree. That will take a lot of beating.

 

[Kernowboy]

There was an article last week from the head of Moto talking specifically about ev chargers at Exeter services. By autumn there will be 56 fast chargers available which at least should help with queues, in the short term anyway. But it goes on to say that peak energy useage will be 8megawatts which is the equivalent to a third of the entire electrical consumption of the city of Exeter. By 2030 the expectation is that ev chargers alone will require the equivalent output of 9 nuclear power stations to feed them, just as all the current nuclear power stations go offline. The chargers will slow down to meet available power so I doubt they will be fast chargers when most are hooked up to cars.
Now I’m sat in Turkey in the baking heat with lovely green gardens around me, watered nightly. No rationing of water here. Yet at home I haven’t been able to use a hosepipe, legally, for nearly a year now. Fortunately it’s been raining hard for most of those days. Water or electric, my confidence in the utility companies, who haven’t been able to see beyond their shareholders fat wallets for many years, being able to keep up with demand is zero.

 

[Borris]

In the short to medium term for a Buzz Cali ideally there would need to be some pitches would need EV charging capability. Given the dire situation of come hookups currently and the investment required to do this I think it’s a very long way off. And the cost they’d charge you to use one of those pitches would be astronomical and make diesel the cheaper option probably. Without this you’d have to spend hours charging each day you travel so you’re not exactly going to get far…

I agree.

Since, for most buyers, the main intended purpose of purchasing an ID Buzz California would likely be to use it for touring and camping, then that experience alone is highly likely to leave them dissapointed. That will no doubt have a knock on effect on future sales figures and resale values.

As you say, how many camp sites are likely to want to make the sort of investment necessary to support EV charging across their site and even if they do, at what price to the consumer? I suspect that many campsites will instead insist on: NO EV CHARGING ON SITE.

Reduced range and payload coupled with lack of proper EV charging facilities on route or on site, does not make an EV camper van a very attractive proposition, at least in the short to medium term.

 

[soulstyledevon]

The problem with EVs is weight.
What the market needs is more light-weight, town and city concentric, affordable EVs. Think Ami with a bit more poke and seats 4.

If made lighter, you can reduce battery size. 150 miles for most families is more than enough for the majority of trips around town.

 

[RockinNRollin]

There's a fascinating 2-part documentary on iPlayer at the moment which talks about EVs and the infrastructure needed to support them. In summary; to say the road ahead is bumpy is a colossal understatement. Batteries for EVs are a major issue, power supply is also a major problem (it's not like we've got loads of "spare" 'leccy to throw at EVs) and the infrastructure is severely lacking. On infrastructure, that's not just charging points, but the national grid to distribute it everywhere. A colleague is having his entire road dug up because the electricity board said there were too many EV charging points on houses now and the supply can't cope! I think he said there were around half a dozen with chargers in a close of around 20 houses.

The fundamental issue is fossil fuels are very energy dense which makes them relatively easy (bang for buck effectively) to extract, refine and distribute. Any other source of energy, even if the source is plentiful, requires complex logistics to get it anywhere.

I wonder if the future is actually a bit more "local" focussed; it won't work for everyone or every scenario, but if most buildings had solar roofs with chargers fed by them (with a battery bank of some sort, which doesn't have to be ultra-light high tech batteries, so less competition with vehicle batteries), then the general habit of topping up would probably satisfy quite a lot of the energy demands for day to day transport with requiring the heavy infrastructure associated with "national level" development.

 

[SamSara]

There was an article last week from the head of Moto talking specifically about ev chargers at Exeter services. By autumn there will be 56 fast chargers available which at least should help with queues, in the short term anyway. But it goes on to say that peak energy useage will be 8megawatts which is the equivalent to a third of the entire electrical consumption of the city of Exeter. By 2030 the expectation is that ev chargers alone will require the equivalent output of 9 nuclear power stations to feed them, just as all the current nuclear power stations go offline. The chargers will slow down to meet available power so I doubt they will be fast chargers when most are hooked up to cars.
Now I’m sat in Turkey in the baking heat with lovely green gardens around me, watered nightly. No rationing of water here. Yet at home I haven’t been able to use a hosepipe, legally, for nearly a year now. Fortunately it’s been raining hard for most of those days. Water or electric, my confidence in the utility companies, who haven’t been able to see beyond their shareholders fat wallets for many years, being able to keep up with demand is zero.

Off topic I know, but the water is soon to run out in Turkey; the lakes are shrinking and the aquifers disappearing. It’s very political but they are up ‘dried’ creek without ‘wheels‘

 

[Pollewop]

The problem with EVs is weight.
What the market needs is more light-weight, town and city concentric, affordable EVs. Think Ami with a bit more poke and seats 4.

If made lighter, you can reduce battery size. 150 miles for most families is more than enough for the majority of trips around town.

Yes, well, as you mention this may be a feasible solution for "trips around town", but for people that use their car for summer holidays this is not an option at all. Let alone for campervans. A range of 600 km, without the need to charge in between, would be a "hard" criterium for me.
This however would need new battery technology to make batteries lighter, charge faster and double their specific capacity. Something which is currently being researched in many universities and companies, but is not there jet... Until then it will be the "good old Diesel"...At least for campervans...

 

[soulstyledevon]

Yes, well, as you mention this may be a feasible solution for "trips around town", but for people that use their car for summer holidays this is not an option at all. Let alone for campervans. A range of 600 km, without the need to charge in between, would be a "hard" criterium for me.
This however would need new battery technology to make batteries lighter, charge faster and double their specific capacity. Something which is currently being researched in many universities and companies, but is not there jet... Until then it will be the "good old Diesel"...At least for campervans...

If your only concern is a once a year long road trip. The obvious solution is to hire a vehicle for that trip.
The majority of journeys in cars is sub 5miles

 

[Borris]

If your only concern is a once a year long road trip. The obvious solution is to hire a vehicle for that trip.
The majority of journeys in cars is sub 5miles

Where did you get that statistic from? Whilst it maybe true, it does sound like another of those London centric stats. My problem with any of these EV discussions is that they tend to gloss over what goes on elsewhere.