Just ordered a 4motion but would like to hear some opinions...

[Herman]

I’m trying to make sense of some replies from people who have a 4 Motion DSG but don’t seem to realise that they also have traction control. It’s not like driving a conventional 4WD vehicle. If you are on a slope and worried about getting stuck then floor it and let the DSG and traction control get you moving. It’s what they are designed to do and there is no point in faffing about trying to start in 2nd either. It’s hard to envision a situation where you would need a diff lock in the sort of places that you would be taking a Cali; they are not LandRovers. Decent tyres do help.

 

[Paulmc]

We run a 204 T6 DSG Kombi /camper at out VW specialist garage in North Dorset.
A DSG box wasn't on my wish list as the manuals offer much better low speed control
and are not exactly heavy to use. We found the DSG box either sluggish to pull away or more throttle would
spin the wheels. The fault turned out to be the low emission factory engine map it came with .A decent remap
totally eliminated this problem and am only reminded how bad it was when we get a std one in for servicing.
With regard to 4 wheel drive we have a place in the french alps and frequently encounter snow and ice with our 2wd T6. Winter tyres totally transformed it to the point 4 wd is not necessary.Most of the local french T6's are 2WD so a testiment to their ability without. I would however say that our previous T5.1 manual with the same tyres was better in tough conditions as there was a traction control deactivation button to allow snow build up in front of tyres to stop and manual clutch control is more delicate in the snow giving better getaway in slippery conditions. The 4wd Haldex system uses more fuel [approx 4mpg] even though it only engages when front wheels slip.The extra drag of front and rear diffs [not the Haldex] and extra weight costs fuel. It is usefull if driving /towing across slippery fields .if you don't need this then why pay at the pump all year just in case the situation arises. Great vans though and superb on long trips to the alps with bags of room for folks and toys.

 

[soulstyledevon]

We run a 204 T6 DSG Kombi /camper at out VW specialist garage in North Dorset.
A DSG box wasn't on my wish list as the manuals offer much better low speed control
and are not exactly heavy to use. We found the DSG box either sluggish to pull away or more throttle would
spin the wheels. The fault turned out to be the low emission factory engine map it came with .A decent remap
totally eliminated this problem and am only reminded how bad it was when we get a std one in for servicing.
With regard to 4 wheel drive we have a place in the french alps and frequently encounter snow and ice with our 2wd T6. Winter tyres totally transformed it to the point 4 wd is not necessary.Most of the local french T6's are 2WD so a testiment to their ability without. I would however say that our previous T5.1 manual with the same tyres was better in tough conditions as there was a traction control deactivation button to allow snow build up in front of tyres to stop and manual clutch control is more delicate in the snow giving better getaway in slippery conditions. The 4wd Haldex system uses more fuel [approx 4mpg] even though it only engages when front wheels slip.The extra drag of front and rear diffs [not the Haldex] and extra weight costs fuel. It is usefull if driving /towing across slippery fields .if you don't need this then why pay at the pump all year just in case the situation arises. Great vans though and superb on long trips to the alps with bags of room for folks and toys.

Interesting Paul.
I’ve found our 2017 204 has a similar issue pulling out at junctions and roundabouts. It’s either flat and a bit of a delay between acceleration and actually moving, or I floor it and end up with insane wheel spin and the dash lighting up like a Christmas tree.

I had put it down to the DSG box and potential lack of 4motion.
Never had this much issue in any of my older (manual)vans. Even had a T4 tuned from 88bhp to 145bhp and never had wheel spin issues like in our current T6...

Who did your remap...?

Concur on the 2wd vans in all the ski resorts. I think I have only ever had one transfer where it was 4motion.
Mostly the vans are 2wd...

 

[alan middleton]

Hi everyone.
I’m really pleased to have just ordered an ocean biturbo 4 motion. I was going to go for the 2wd as it seemed more of a sensible cash option but we hired one back in august from Leighton vans (definitely would recommend) and was quite shocked by how ‘grabby’ the DSG power delivery was and its propensity to spin the wheels at a roundabout...
I currently drive a golf R 7.5 with 4motion and 7speed dsg and understand it’s a completely different beast but surely the dsg haldex unit on the California can’t be that dissimilar? I called the hire guys to see if they had mapped the van as it felt like a bad map, but they confirmed it hadn’t. I was just wondering if it could be a software issue or had anyone else noticed the same thing? It almost like the Biturbo produces too much torque for a 2wd setup..

You are correct. We went from 2wd dsg T5 to our T6 210 4 motion. It still has the annoying lag when putting your foot down, but much less wheel spin when it wakes up. We’ve had numerous VWs all with dsg, some 2wd, others 4wd and the dsg doesn’t really suit 2wd if you have reasonable torque.

 

[soulstyledevon]

You are correct. We went from 2wd dsg T5 to our T6 210 4 motion. It still has the annoying lag when putting your foot down, but much less wheel spin when it wakes up. We’ve had numerous VWs all with dsg, some 2wd, others 4wd and the dsg doesn’t really suit 2wd if you have reasonable torque.

That’s interesting to read you experience the initial lag on 4motion...
A quirk of the dsg box.

The plus point of manual then. Far superior low speed control wether it be 2wd or 4 motion.

 

[Bazabailey]

Isn’t the common thread here the tyres? Lots on line incl a test of 2wd and 4wd Skoda Octavias on a ski slope. Eg Michelin Cross Climates are great in cold, wet conditions below 7 degrees where summer rubber has v limited stickiness. I have a 150 ps fwd manual which has just started to wheel spin on summer tyresas we live on a hill and it’s now wet. So may change, but having driven all types of car 4wd , rwd and fwd I’d say you can’t underestimate tyres over drive type.

Isn’t the common thread here the tyres? Lots on line incl a test of 2wd and 4wd Skoda Octavias on a ski slope. Eg Michelin Cross Climates are great in cold, wet conditions below 7 degrees where summer rubber has v limited stickiness. I have a 150 ps fwd manual which has just started to wheel spin on summer tyresas we live on a hill and it’s now wet. So may change, but having driven all types of car 4wd , rwd and fwd I’d say you can’t underestimate tyres over drive type.

I add this as I am a great fan of of 4wds, but have found Michelin cross climates a great all rounder on a previous car.

 

[Paulmc]

Interesting Paul.
I’ve found our 2017 204 has a similar issue pulling out at junctions and roundabouts. It’s either flat and a bit of a delay between acceleration and actually moving, or I floor it and end up with insane wheel spin and the dash lighting up like a Christmas tree.

I had put it down to the DSG box and potential lack of 4motion.
Never had this much issue in any of my older (manual)vans. Even had a T4 tuned from 88bhp to 145bhp and never had wheel spin issues like in our current T6...

Who did your remap...?

Concur on the 2wd vans in all the ski resorts. I think I have only ever had one transfer where it was 4motion.
Mostly the vans are 2wd...

Currently the best remap tuners are Celtic tuning in Newquay. Superchips were the best but now not supporting the UK market as of two weeks ago. There are a ton of poor remappers out there using generic manipulating software [bedroom tuners] so make sure your tuner has properly developed the remap on road and dyno over repeated runs. There are DSG box remaps but we found the problem was engine response which the remap totally fixed.

 

[alan middleton]

Isn’t the common thread here the tyres? Lots on line incl a test of 2wd and 4wd Skoda Octavias on a ski slope. Eg Michelin Cross Climates are great in cold, wet conditions below 7 degrees where summer rubber has v limited stickiness. I have a 150 ps fwd manual which has just started to wheel spin on summer tyresas we live on a hill and it’s now wet. So may change, but having driven all types of car 4wd , rwd and fwd I’d say you can’t underestimate tyres over drive type.


I add this as I am a great fan of of 4wds, but have found Michelin cross climates a great all rounder on a previous car.

Tyres are really important and I agree with that when it comes to getting out of mud or snow. With DSG and good tyres that is perfectly fine with front wheel drive as you can put it in drive, release the brake and wait a few seconds. The wheels will then slowly start turning and very carefully applied throttle should do it.

The other part of this conversation is about the general “behaviour” of DSG. This is most noticeable when pulling out of a junction from standstill. If you see a gap, the natural thing to do is floor it. With DSG, this is scary as the box does all sorts of calculations before putting all the power down through said tyres. So, first you don’t move at all, then suddenly you wheel spin into the shrinking gap. 2wd and more powerful engine equals more wheel spin. So next time you see someone slowly creeping forward at a junction, they’re probably not impatient - just allowing DSG brain to engage before they floor it

 

[PatD]

I have 2WD on my Cali and have struggled in certain situations, so for my range of driving a 4WD would be a good option. However a vital piece of the jigsaw is the tyres, as Baza and Alan mention above. About 2 years ago I swapped to good quality Cross Climate tyres, with a more chunky tread pattern. They have been suburb for grip on wet roads, mud, gravel and snow, yet performed faultlessly for my last big summer trip to the Alps (July 2019). The wear rate seems remarkably good and the only disadvantage I have noticed is a bit more road noise. The tyres are Michelin Agilis Cross Climate. When the time comes, I'll be getting the same again.

 

[Mooreml1]

Tyres are really important and I agree with that when it comes to getting out of mud or snow. With DSG and good tyres that is perfectly fine with front wheel drive as you can put it in drive, release the brake and wait a few seconds. The wheels will then slowly start turning and very carefully applied throttle should do it.

The other part of this conversation is about the general “behaviour” of DSG. This is most noticeable when pulling out of a junction from standstill. If you see a gap, the natural thing to do is floor it. With DSG, this is scary as the box does all sorts of calculations before putting all the power down through said tyres. So, first you don’t move at all, then suddenly you wheel spin into the shrinking gap. 2wd and more powerful engine equals more wheel spin. So next time you see someone slowly creeping forward at a junction, they’re probably not impatient - just allowing DSG brain to engage before they floor it

Totally agree with that, the funny thing is that the 7sp DSG in my golf R is like lightning, way faster than even the best driver could manually declutch and shift. It’s very strange.

 

[Lambeth Cali]

My brother used to drive to the Alps in a 4wd Subaru. He used to say to me that the minute you take you take your foot off the accelerator and touch the brakes you are effectively in a 2wd car.
If you’re trying to get out of a muddy field then 4wd sounds good. First sign of a crash most people touch the brakes and you’re no longer using 4wd.