Latest roof bellows

[RockinNRollin]

I’ve got the 4S which hasn’t got wet yet and I’m thinking of just using Aquatex and not going through the hassle of having the bellows changed. Does anyone know what the difference is between the 4&5 and is it worth changing when the 5 still leaks?

I would wait until / if it leaks. My 04S has yet to leak (although I’ve also yet to encounter truly horrendous weather in it, despite camping about 40 nights since it was installed early this year!). Yours might be fine, they don’t all leak.

 

[Corradobrit]

I don’t want to join the leaking bellows brigade.

But I thought I would sound out some wiser/more experienced minds.

Last 2 nights in Wales it’s been blowing a hoolie in techinal terms. In layman’s terms, I would guesstimate Gale Force 7 - 8. I popped the roof regardless, as these things should be stress tested way beyond their stated tolerance.

I parked with the rear facing the prevailing wind. Woke up to large pools of water in the front corners of the top bunk area.

Last night there were puddles on the worktop in front of the wardrobe (pretty certain water was just tracking down the metal hooks for the IKEA rails pic attached). I think a good 250-500 ml pooled up on the worktop (I kept mopping it up).

Before I go bellowing at VW, should I simply expect this, given the prevailing conditions?

For reference 04S 24 reg.

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Thats one of the worst leak events I've seen. Have to say you seem to be taking it very calmly. I would be concerned with seepage onto the headliner and electrics. Thats a LOT of standing water that was likely settled for several hours. From your description I would not have left the poptop up in those weather conditions. There is stress testing and there is stress testing.

 

[JuanVecino2023]

Abolutely NOT to be expected. We are in devizies in an open field. We set up incorrectly facing the prevailing wind. Spent the night in torrential rain. Not a drop has passed through the bellows. I checked very carefully.
05s bellows with two applications if Aquatwx to all the seems.

I haven’t Aquatexed yet to be fair. I thought I might just get the 05S under warranty if this is not to be expected.

I don’t want to be too fussy. But, if that’s the protocol, I guess it’s there to be followed.

 

[JuanVecino2023]

Thats one of the worst leak events I've seen. Have to say you seem to be taking it very calmly. I would be concerned with seepage onto the headliner and electrics. Thats a LOT of standing water that was likely settled for several hours. From your description I would not have left the poptop up in those weather conditions. There is stress testing and there is stress testing.

By stress testing, I meant that the manufacturers stated tolerance will be far lower than the conditions they have stress tested a component to failure in. Not that I was deliberately stress testing the water tightness or otherwise.

Not sure what wind mph VW state the bellows can safely be left up in. My guide was there were a couple of other vans with their roofs up. Not that collective stupidity is any defence, but they seemed to be staying upright & dry.

There were two folk asleep upstairs when the wind really built up and it was midnight by the time the water appeared.

I am calm insofar as, the water was in by the time I saw it and there’s nothing I can do about it. If it’s a warranty claim, it’s a warranty claim.

There is some ingress into the headliner.

 

[Corradobrit]

By stress testing, I meant that the manufacturers stated tolerance will be far lower than the conditions they have stress tested a component to failure in. Not that I was deliberately stress testing the water tightness or otherwise.

Not sure what wind mph VW state the bellows can safely be left up in. My guide was there were a couple of other vans with their roofs up. Not that collective stupidity is any defence, but they seemed to be staying upright & dry.

There were two folk asleep upstairs when the wind really built up and it was midnight by the time the water appeared.

I am calm insofar as, the water was in by the time I saw it and there’s nothing I can do about it. If it’s a warranty claim, it’s a warranty claim.

There is some ingress into the headliner.

Well in a sense you are doing the community a huge favour in that VW need to understand the damage their poorly designed/manufactured bellows can cause. Most will have put towels down or figured out there was an issue well before pooling like that is allowed to occur, and dropped the poptop.
I will be applying Aquatex once I have the 05S bellows installed next month to replace the 03S sieve.

 

[OxonCalifornia]

I don’t want to join the leaking bellows brigade.

But I thought I would sound out some wiser/more experienced minds.

Last 2 nights in Wales it’s been blowing a hoolie in techinal terms. In layman’s terms, I would guesstimate Gale Force 7 - 8. I popped the roof regardless, as these things should be stress tested way beyond their stated tolerance.

I parked with the rear facing the prevailing wind. Woke up to large pools of water in the front corners of the top bunk area.

Last night there were puddles on the worktop in front of the wardrobe (pretty certain water was just tracking down the metal hooks for the IKEA rails pic attached). I think a good 250-500 ml pooled up on the worktop (I kept mopping it up).

Before I go bellowing at VW, should I simply expect this, given the prevailing conditions?

For reference 04S 24 reg.

View attachment 128174

View attachment 128175

View attachment 128176

View attachment 128177

Sorry to hear this..poor you!
It’s an exchange for 05S then ?

 

[JuanVecino2023]

Sorry to hear this..poor you!
It’s an exchange for 05S then ?

I guess so.

Or become a soft fair weather camper!

 

[Corradobrit]

Or become a soft fair weather camper!

Unfortunately this is the tack some unhelpful dealers are taking. There are obviously degrees here but the majrity of offending O3S bellows leak even without wind being a factor.

 

[OxonCalifornia]

Slept overnight in Cali down in Poole… has been non stop torrential rain since 0100.. still raining now but with O5S plus aquatex …a bone dry night .. not a drip came through , all those seams held…. I should have slept downstairs though due to the noise of the rain on the canvas and roof but very pleased with outcome this morning. Good decision..Ironically taking van back to Breeze this morning NOT for leaky bellows but for a self rising blind that has a mind of its own!

 

[Corradobrit]

Slept overnight in Cali down in Poole… has been non stop torrential rain since 0100.. still raining now but with O5S plus aquatex …a bone dry night .. not a drip came through , all those seams held…. I should have slept downstairs though due to the noise of the rain on the canvas and roof but very pleased with outcome this morning. Good decision..Ironically taking van back to Breeze this morning NOT for leaky bellows but for a self rising blind that has a mind of its own!

Good to hear. Aquatex even if only applied to the known leaking seams eg along the bottom and the vertical front corner seams is a no brainer at this point. I don't think anyone has had leaks on the zippers and horizontal seam since the black sealing membrane was installed on the 05S.

 

[JuanVecino2023]

Unfortunately this is the tack some unhelpful dealers are taking. There are obviously degrees here but the majrity of offending O3S bellows leak even without wind being a factor.

That’s madness. My £130 Decathlon tent was fine last night.

How VW can defend their stance if that’s their approach is beyond me. An £80k the which underperforms an £0.1k one.

 

[OxonCalifornia]

That’s madness. My £130 Decathlon tent was fine last night.

How VW can defend their stance if that’s their approach is beyond me. An £80k the which underperforms an £0.1k one.

Plus a £10 can of aquatex melts all problems and anxieties away!

 

[JuanVecino2023]

Plus a £10 can of aquatex melts all problems and anxieties away!

Yes, I need to try this.

My situation - it lashed down the first night we picked it up. No issues.

Went to Rhossilli in April, blowing a gale & lashing down, minor water ingres. So minor I put it down to condensation.

A couple of rainy nights since with no issue. So, despite having read all the posts about leaks/Aquatex etc, I thought we were all good.

Hence why I had no real clue about the leaks this weekend until I saw the puddle next to me downstairs on the worktop.

By which time, it was pooled in the metal around the shutter aperture and absorbed into the headlining in the cab.

 

[OxonCalifornia]

Yes, I need to try this.

My situation - it lashed down the first night we picked it up. No issues.

Went to Rhossilli in April, blowing a gale & lashing down, minor water ingres. So minor I put it down to condensation.

A couple of rainy nights since with no issue. So, despite having read all the posts about leaks/Aquatex etc, I thought we were all good.

Hence why I had no real clue about the leaks this weekend until I saw the puddle next to me downstairs on the worktop.

By which time, it was pooled in the metal around the shutter aperture and absorbed into the headlining in the cab.

You should be able to sort any water damage through warranty and try another set of 05S for peace of mind … I heard yesterday at dealer , although not officially from VW that some sort of waterproofing towards the end of the run was taking place at the factory and from the manufacturer on the four vertical thin seams, but who knows.. what I do know is that with those four seams sprayed with aquatex taking 5 mins without dealer intervention sorts everything out and allows you to fall back in love with your Cali

 

[lohr500]

You should be able to sort any water damage through warranty and try another set of 05S for peace of mind … I heard yesterday at dealer , although not officially from VW that some sort of waterproofing towards the end of the run was taking place at the factory and from the manufacturer on the four vertical thin seams, but who knows.. what I do know is that with those four seams sprayed with aquatex taking 5 mins without dealer intervention sorts everything out and allows you to fall back in love with your Cali

It wouldn't surprise me at all if the manufacturer and/or the factory have been applying Aquatex or something similar at source.

I'm just amazed they haven't issued some form of service bulletin to apply Aquatex at the dealerships as a first level fix for any reported leaks.

 

[Corradobrit]

It wouldn't surprise me at all if the manufacturer and/or the factory have been applying Aquatex or something similar at source.

I doubt it. If they had, the 03S and 04S and to a lesser extent the 05S, wouldn't be leaking so frequently.

 

[JuanVecino2023]

You should be able to sort any water damage through warranty and try another set of 05S for peace of mind … I heard yesterday at dealer , although not officially from VW that some sort of waterproofing towards the end of the run was taking place at the factory and from the manufacturer on the four vertical thin seams, but who knows.. what I do know is that with those four seams sprayed with aquatex taking 5 mins without dealer intervention sorts everything out and allows you to fall back in love with your Cali

I love it all the same.

I guess it’s what warranties are for.

Anyway, the leak in the passenger footwell is probably more irritating, as it’s apparent every day it rains. Just going to have a look now to see if I can resolve

 

[NGC]

To save you the time the general consensus is get the latest version fitted under warranty and if you have any further issues (which would only likely be minor) then use Aquatex to treat the seams. After that you shouldn’t have any issues so can forget about it largely, though Aquatex top up might be required in the future.

Basically this is an excellent summary. My story was similar, June 24 6.1 Ocean, leaked got it changed under warranty, leaked again but not as bad, then complained to VW and got a free roof topper. Mind you, still waiting on the refund of £275! Haven’t tried the roof topper yet but heading to Doolin, County Clare, that should sort that!

 

[Paul G - 2022 Ocean]

Discovered our first minor leak after 2 years of ownership (June 2022 build) but not had the roof up too many times in rain until a couple of weeks ago with a full day of rain and wind (only 15mph/ gusting at 25mph) and we had some dripping from the lower corners of the front window seams and also intermittent dripping onto me whilst sitting in the passenger seat (whilst spun around). Didn’t seem worth bothering VW about for a potential warranty claim as it was relatively minor. And as a tent, or any other waterproof clothing, is there not an expectation for self maintenance with waterproofing agent? I also have a fear that replacing the factory fit bellows by dealers, runs a risk of other waterproof seals being disturbed and not resealed properly which would just move the issue elsewhere. I wonder if that is why so many owners who have had the bellows replaced still report leaks? I’m happy to live with it for now and will monitor it and if it gets worse then will invest in some Aquatex or similar product . But when I first bought the Cali and read about leaking belows a lot of comments said the fibres of the roof material had to get wet in order to swell and make them waterproof but I don’t seem to see those comments now. Is that because VW recognised a warranty issue? I think our bellows are Generation 02S according to the label attached to the front window zip. Anyone got the same generation with leaking issues?

 

[OooOooTheMonkey]

Discovered our first minor leak after 2 years of ownership (June 2022 build) but not had the roof up too many times in rain until a couple of weeks ago with a full day of rain and wind (only 15mph/ gusting at 25mph) and we had some dripping from the lower corners of the front window seams and also intermittent dripping onto me whilst sitting in the passenger seat (whilst spun around). Didn’t seem worth bothering VW about for a potential warranty claim as it was relatively minor. And as a tent, or any other waterproof clothing, is there not an expectation for self maintenance with waterproofing agent? I also have a fear that replacing the factory fit bellows by dealers, runs a risk of other waterproof seals being disturbed and not resealed properly which would just move the issue elsewhere. I wonder if that is why so many owners who have had the bellows replaced still report leaks? I’m happy to live with it for now and will monitor it and if it gets worse then will invest in some Aquatex or similar product . But when I first bought the Cali and read about leaking belows a lot of comments said the fibres of the roof material had to get wet in order to swell and make them waterproof but I don’t seem to see those comments now. Is that because VW recognised a warranty issue? I think our bellows are Generation 02S according to the label attached to the front window zip. Anyone got the same generation with leaking issues?

A June 2022 build would have 02S bellows (the so-called old reliable type absent of the dual layer leakage issues). If you have minor leakage then that would suggest the latest 05S is roughly of the same performance. Therefore (in my eyes) problem solved with the 05S.