New leisure batteries but no improvement

[Tonio44]

We just completed our first 3 weeks with our Cali.
It went great (appart the short electrical problem you helped me with).
However I figured my leisure batteries were old and although with our limited consumption the fridge would keep functioning around 4 days, we had problems with the webasto heater this winter that we attributed to the batteries.
So I went to a battery specialist and installed 2 Exide gel batteries (950Wh and 650Wh) instead of the original battery at the back and a starter battery (!) under the front seat.
First thing I noticed is that after 48h on hookup I had 14.7V 100% rather than 13.2V I had before. That seems high.
I obviously didn't have the opportunity to test the heater yet but to my surprise the fridge stopped after 2 days without hookup but some driving (approx. 30 min. /day) under extreme heat I have to say but still...
Also earlier I tried to close the pop-up roof with the engine off less than 24h after unhooking the mains at a camp site and it stopped in the process asking me to start the engine. I forgot to take a picture of the console and can't remember the voltage but that was unexpected. I usually keep the engine running when operating the roof but my cali is german which means I can't run the engine without blasting the headlights in my neighbours faces when on a camp site.
I will keep checking but I hope I didn't waste over 400€ on batteries not fit for the Cali (I followed the specialist's recommandation).

I checked the voltage on each battery back at home and the batteries where each at 12.1V when the console showed 12.2V which seems about right.

 

[Hotel California]

If you put in two new lesure batteries , one in the rear and one under the front seat and you say they have diffrent specifications i think you did no good.
And you talk about a starter battery under the seat ?

All confusing .
Did a propper (VW) dealer did this ? You say a battery instaler ...
I would think about having it checked again .

 

[kave]

12 .1. Volts is almost empty, was this after driving home?

 

[WelshGas]

We just completed our first 3 weeks with our Cali.
It went great (appart the short electrical problem you helped me with).
However I figured my leisure batteries were old and although with our limited consumption the fridge would keep functioning around 4 days, we had problems with the webasto heater this winter that we attributed to the batteries.
So I went to a battery specialist and installed 2 Exide gel batteries (950Wh and 650Wh) instead of the original battery at the back and a starter battery (!) under the front seat.
First thing I noticed is that after 48h on hookup I had 14.7V 100% rather than 13.2V I had before. That seems high.
I obviously didn't have the opportunity to test the heater yet but to my surprise the fridge stopped after 2 days without hookup but some driving (approx. 30 min. /day) under extreme heat I have to say but still...
Also earlier I tried to close the pop-up roof with the engine off less than 24h after unhooking the mains at a camp site and it stopped in the process asking me to start the engine. I forgot to take a picture of the console and can't remember the voltage but that was unexpected. I usually keep the engine running when operating the roof but my cali is german which means I can't run the engine without blasting the headlights in my neighbours faces when on a camp site.
I will keep checking but I hope I didn't waste over 400€ on batteries not fit for the Cali (I followed the specialist's recommandation).

I checked the voltage on each battery back at home and the batteries where each at 12.1V when the console showed 12.2V which seems about right.

You have now got 3 different types and capacity of batteries wired in parallel. Totally opposite to good practice and what VW provide in the California.
I’m not surprised you have problems I’m afraid.
The leisure batteries as fitted to the California are Varta LA80 x 2 wired in parallel giving approximately 150 amp capacity.

 

[Tonio44]

Thanks for your replies. I have been unclear once again sorry.
1/ I got the van with what looks like the original battery from 2007 at the back and a starter battery under the front seat.
2/ I replaced them at a battery shop and they pushed me to get different sizes to get the biggest possible Wh overall. I trusted them, they looked like they knew what they where doing. And I even asked if it was OK to have different capacity.

Should I just go back to them and ask to change the bigger battery to match the smaller one ? That would be 2 exide 650Wh.

PS : 12.2V was 3 days after we came back with the fridge still running for around 24h after we stopped the engine (always set to 7C).

I didn't go to the WV dealer because I trusted the battery shop better. My VW guys told me it is normal to have no temp reading on the console and didn't even check the VW diags errors (6000 and 6001). I will go back to them to contest that.

 

[kave]

Yes, totally crazy using two difference batteries in parallel.
Battery voltage should always be measured while no load is running, ie when fridge compressor is off.
The Voltage reading when something is running off the batteries is more or less useless.

 

[AlanC]

If your California is an SE or Ocean, then it has 3 batteries fitted.

The starter or engine battery is under the bonnet with the engine in front of the driver in a left hand drive vehicle.

The two leisure batteries are under the driver’s seat (in a left hand drive van) and under the wardrobe at the back. These leisure batteries must be matched, as others have said, as they are connected in parallel and charged together from the split charge system, when the engine is running, and from the mains charger when on hook up.

The engine battery can have a different capacity is it is separate from the leisure ones and has a different use.
The engine alternator will charge the engine battery first and then top up the leisure batteries when the engine battery is full via the split charge system.

If the battery company fitted two differing leisure batteries, then they didn’t know as much as you thought.

Hope that helps.
Alan

 

[WelshGas]

If your California is an SE or Ocean, then it has 3 batteries fitted.

The starter or engine battery is under the bonnet with the engine in front of the driver in a left hand drive vehicle.

The two leisure batteries are under the driver’s seat (in a left hand drive van) and under the wardrobe at the back. These leisure batteries must be matched, as others have said, as they are connected in parallel and charged together from the split charge system, when the engine is running, and from the mains charger when on hook up.

The engine battery can have a different capacity is it is separate from the leisure ones and has a different use.
The engine alternator will charge the engine battery first and then top up the leisure batteries when the engine battery is full via the split charge system.

If the battery company fitted two differing leisure batteries, then they didn’t know as much as you thought.

Hope that helps.
Alan

The only possible explanation - Maybe they didn’t realise they were wired in parallel.

 

[rod_vw]

I will disagree with @AlanC about any sequence of charging the batteries. When the Body Control Module (BCM) detects that the alternator is charging it operates a relay under the left front seat which connects all three batteries in parallel and charges them together. Even today VW have not got around to fitting any more sophisticated Battery to Battery (DC/DC Converter) to provide better charging of the leisure battery(s).

As all above have pointed out, the two leisure batteries must be a matching pair in both type and age. The engine battery can be of a differing type and capacity to the leisure ones.
I don't know where the Watt Hour rating comes from but the best advice is to have the largest Ampere Hour rated batteries possible limited by the smallest fitting space.

If you have any doubts about what is the best battery option for a VW Camper I suggest that you speak to Martyn at 'Travelvolts' he is an acknowledged expert in all things VW electrical despite the fact that you are in France.

 

[westfalia]

What year is your van?
Mine has 2 of these fitted from new, 1 under the passenger seat
and the other under the wardrobe. 2006 model.

The starter battery is under the bonnet, on mine the starter battery has
nothing to do with the others but i think on later models it does due to the
trickle charging when on hook up.

 

[Hotel California]

It's funny that he keeps saying the starterbattery under the front seat....

 

[westfalia]

It's funny that he keeps saying the starterbattery under the front seat....

It might have had a starter battery fitted under the seat and the
guys who fitted it weren't familiar with the Cali.

Who knows?

 

[rod_vw]

It might have had a starter battery fitted under the seat and the
guys who fitted it weren't familiar with the Cali.

Who knows?

Perhaps he owned a T3 (Type 25) before!

 

[AlanC]

I will disagree with @AlanC about any sequence of charging the batteries. When the Body Control Module (BCM) detects that the alternator is charging it operates a relay under the left front seat which connects all three batteries in parallel and charges them together. Even today VW have not got around to fitting any more sophisticated Battery to Battery (DC/DC Converter) to provide better charging of the leisure battery(s).

As all above have pointed out, the two leisure batteries must be a matching pair in both type and age. The engine battery can be of a differing type and capacity to the leisure ones.
I don't know where the Watt Hour rating comes from but the best advice is to have the largest Ampere Hour rated batteries possible limited by the smallest fitting space.

If you have any doubts about what is the best battery option for a VW Camper I suggest that you speak to Martyn at 'Travelvolts' he is an acknowledged expert in all things VW electrical despite the fact that you are in France.

Yes, you are right. My error.

Alan

 

[2into1]

What the OP is saying, is when he got the van, it had the proper leisure battery in the wardrobe and an starter 'spec' battery under the seat. He doesn't think that battery starts the engine, just that he inherited a bad situation where the under seat leisure battery had been replaced by a normal starter battery..

Taking that bad situation to his battery shop that doesn't understand Cali's has led to 2 new leisure batteries being fitted, but of different capacities in an attempt to get the biggest batteries possible (obviously bad practice to those in the know).

 

[calicasas]

If you put in two new lesure batteries , one in the rear and one under the front seat and you say they have diffrent specifications i think you did no good.
And you talk about a starter battery under the seat ?

All confusing .
Did a propper (VW) dealer did this ? You say a battery instaler ...
I would think about having it checked again .

I agree with Hotel California.
Just To re-inforce these points:
Firstly - Both batteries should be of the same specification, have the same power & likewise the same internal resistance. This will minimise any potential shortening of the life of one or both batteries. If you were getting technical you would go as far as ‘balancing’ the batteries before installation, this way the batteries will function well together and will help extend their lives.
Secondly, just to clarify, (as mentioned already) the battery beneath the seat is simply a second leisure battery and not a starter battery...

 

[Tonio44]

Hi all,
firstly sorry for not updating you, it seems my last post didn't make it through
Secondly, I realise the language barrier is real because of subtle wording. Yes @2into1 is right: I inherited a crapy setup where one of the leisure battery was replaced by a starter type battery. As a matter of fact, the actual starter battery was changed by the (pro) seller, so I didn't diligently check the other batteries when buying. This is my very first step in the this campervan world so mistakes are to be expected. I fail and learn. Maintenance is much simpler on my air-cooled 'naked' motorcycle

So thanks again for all your inputs. I agree that this is very disappointing from a specialist shop and I am a lot less likely to use there services, or at least listen to their advice.
When I went back to the shop it was a different guy. I have had good business with him before this disappointing transaction and I believe he is the more knowledgeable guy. He immediately admitted that a mismatch didn't make sense. He denied that it could create weird electrical quirks but immediately suggested to exchange one battery to match the other and reimbursed me the difference on the spot.
I only tried the new setup 3 days but it seems better with the voltage dropping more progressively. Hopefully that will solve my parking heater problem. We'll see this automn.

PS: this is one of my biggest gripe with business in France. You really can't trust the pros. I have so many stories of me being disappointed by the 'pros'. Add huge taxes that make those services very expensive and you can guess why DIY is popular here!

 

[Tonio44]

Just an update almost 2 years later.
First, I didn't need to use the heater for long periods of time since I posted but it worked without issue every time I used it.
I stayed without driving nor hookup for 3 days several times wild camping with fridge on and I had no issue.
The starter battery died on me a few weeks ago, in the middle of a trip, but fortunately on the short motorway trip between 2 remote places, so now I'm sure I have a new one. And I just installed Roger's solar camper system with a 100W panel and the MPPT that also charges the starter battery for peace of mind. I do not use the van for long periods of time so I suspect that did damage the starter battery (I may have forgotten to plug the EHU some months). To early to judge on that but the quality of the kit and the helpfulness of Roger are true to their reputation.
Everyday more in love with our Cali

 

[Tonio44]

I just discovered my rear battery fuse was blown while testing why my MPPT reading was diverging from the console. So it is going to be even better! (I suspect that fuse was blown by the guys who replaced the batteries without much care and hate me for not checking. Of course it could be me while installing the solar panel).
So I had something like 13.7V on the rear battery connected to the panel and 12.1 on the front seat battery. I plugged the EHU since it seems to recharge the front battery and ordered 2 x 75a replacement fuse (to keep a spare).
Thanks again to all the forum members who share such precious information and experience!
I just have to find again the thread(s) were the order in which batteries should be unplugged/plugged to change the fuse