New Member - Needing help with my hydraulics!

[Annraoi]

Hi folks; although a new member I have my T5 California since 2012 and have had many an enjoyable trip at home and abroad - writing from Dublin.

I am seeking some guidance on an issue I am experiencing with the hydraulics on the elevating roof. Although I have read with interest the threads associated with issues experienced with the hydraulic control units and the elevating rams I have not found any reference to the hydraulic piping. My local VW dealer has advised that one of the hydraulic supply lines is perforated . .and leaking. . and will cost €7,500 (£6,500) to replace as it involves the removal of the fixed and elevating roof sections and replacement of a total of 56 parts in the process . .including the canvas roof.

I am completely shocked that such a minor component requires this level of intervention to replace. Have any of you experienced similar or are aware of an easier means to repair or replace?

Apologies for raising my woes and worries in my introduction . . and first thread!

 

[westfalia]

WHAT ?
7500€ For fecks sake, I would consider changing it to a manual pop top
if that was the case, its been done.
What kind of issues do you have with the roof ?

 

[WelshGas]

Hi folks; although a new member I have my T5 California since 2012 and have had many an enjoyable trip at home and abroad - writing from Dublin.

I am seeking some guidance on an issue I am experiencing with the hydraulics on the elevating roof. Although I have read with interest the threads associated with issues experienced with the hydraulic control units and the elevating rams I have not found any reference to the hydraulic piping. My local VW dealer has advised that one of the hydraulic supply lines is perforated . .and leaking. . and will cost €7,500 (£6,500) to replace as it involves the removal of the fixed and elevating roof sections and replacement of a total of 56 parts in the process . .including the canvas roof.

I am completely shocked that such a minor component requires this level of intervention to replace. Have any of you experienced similar or are aware of an easier means to repair or replace?

Apologies for raising my woes and worries in my introduction . . and first thread!

I think the Dealership is having you on and basically does not want to undertake the work.
I enclose a Technical document that shows the roof components and position etc: I suggest you look for another Dealer who knows the California.

 

[Hotel California]

I can understand there will be a lot of work involved this job if the diagnose is correct .
First i would go for a 2nd opinion .
And i would concider a transformation to a manual roof , been done by others and explained in detail here on the forum .

 

[jts46]

Your dealer is having a laugh, and doesn't want the job

 

[Annraoi]

Thanks for the technical document - very helpful for understanding the components in question;

There is a little bit of smoke and daggers at the moment with the service shop I am dealing with. I had the front section repaired this time last year for the rust issue which is well covered in this forum. I am of the opinion that the hydraulic line in question was compromised during this work which is now leading to premature failure; they have confirmed that this line was removed and replace as part of this work. VW deny such and following a formal complaint to VW Ireland there is a good will of €3000 being offered towards their trouble shooting and labour - although no acceptance of any culpability. Still leaving me with a bill of €4,500 . . In order to replace the hydraulic line I am lead to believe that the front roof section need to removed again - and all the work associated with it.

During a routine maintenance VW opened the roof - to fix a bulb in the reading light - and on the drivers side failed to come down. Only after 4 weeks were they able to determine the root cause as a leak in the hydraulic line. Although reading issues experienced on roof 'sticking' leads me to believe if the line is the actual or sole issue!

Have any others had issues with hydraulics after the extensive surgery to address the roof rust 'recall' work?

 

[Dylan]

Hello Annraoi,

My Cali had the corrosion roof repair several years ago with good results until 6 months ago, when the roof began to struggle to complete it’s elevation. This was diagnosed as pump failure with a replacement cost of £3500.

I’m a mechanical engineer and doubted that the pump was faulty so the large replacement cost drove me to investigate the problem. As I suspected, the cause was a low level of oil in the pump reservoir. I believe this resulted from the repair shop not understanding the correct filling procedure when they re-fitted the hydraulics on completion of the roof repair. Instead of topping-up the reservoir after operating the roof several times to fill the pipes and the elevating struts, I think that they added the oil to the reservoir and did not re-check the level when operated. The quantity of oil in the system is small and a very little lose could result in cavitation. This was obvious on my van after gaining access to the pump. Since topping-up, the roof has worked without fault.

The procedure to access the pump is not a trivial one, as a lot of trim has to be removed. All the work is from within the van. However, I have seen on this forum that VW Coventry charged one of our member £700 to top up the oil. To do this they would have had access to the hydraulic lines as well as the pump. Their costs are probably reasonable for this job. I have posted a few images to show the type of work involved.

I do hope that you resolve this to your satisfaction. Your initial response from the dealer was rediculous.

Martin

 

[WelshGas]

Hi folks; although a new member I have my T5 California since 2012 and have had many an enjoyable trip at home and abroad - writing from Dublin.

I am seeking some guidance on an issue I am experiencing with the hydraulics on the elevating roof. Although I have read with interest the threads associated with issues experienced with the hydraulic control units and the elevating rams I have not found any reference to the hydraulic piping. My local VW dealer has advised that one of the hydraulic supply lines is perforated . .and leaking. . and will cost €7,500 (£6,500) to replace as it involves the removal of the fixed and elevating roof sections and replacement of a total of 56 parts in the process . .including the canvas roof.

I am completely shocked that such a minor component requires this level of intervention to replace. Have any of you experienced similar or are aware of an easier means to repair or replace?

Apologies for raising my woes and worries in my introduction . . and first thread!

What exactly are the symptoms you are experiencing with the roof? Just the failure to lower on the one side? Any leakage of fluid?
If No leakage I would certainly check the fluid level first and also get a 2nd opinion from a Dealer who knows the California and is interested.
Also, try the Manual system for lowering as detailed in the handbook.
I would tend towards @Dylan 's explanation above.

 

[Eber123]

Hello Annraoi,

Did you go to Frank Keane in Liffey Valley? They sell a lot of the camper vans and because of this they must have a good bit of experience to look after them (at least more than others).

With the Tiguan I had a bit of a problem, which I discussed with VW Ireland. I wrote some emails and contacted SIMI as well. When I mentioned that in an email to VW I got a phone call a day afterwards....

The cost of some repairs for the California is scary. I will be in Frank Keane on Saturday around 10 am, I will ask if they offer an extended warranty...

Best of luck.

Eberhard

 

[jts46]

View attachment 31961 View attachment 31962 View attachment 31963 Hello Annraoi,

My Cali had the corrosion roof repair several years ago with good results until 6 months ago, when the roof began to struggle to complete it’s elevation. This was diagnosed as pump failure with a replacement cost of £3500.

I’m a mechanical engineer and doubted that the pump was faulty so the large replacement cost drove me to investigate the problem. As I suspected, the cause was a low level of oil in the pump reservoir. I believe this resulted from the repair shop not understanding the correct filling procedure when they re-fitted the hydraulics on completion of the roof repair. Instead of topping-up the reservoir after operating the roof several times to fill the pipes and the elevating struts, I think that they added the oil to the reservoir and did not re-check the level when operated. The quantity of oil in the system is small and a very little lose could result in cavitation. This was obvious on my van after gaining access to the pump. Since topping-up, the roof has worked without fault.

The procedure to access the pump is not a trivial one, as a lot of trim has to be removed. All the work is from within the van. However, I have seen on this forum that VW Coventry charged one of our member £700 to top up the oil. To do this they would have had access to the hydraulic lines as well as the pump. Their costs are probably reasonable for this job. I have posted a few images to show the type of work involved.

I do hope that you resolve this to your satisfaction. Your initial response from the dealer was rediculous.

Martin

It was me that you mentioned but the £782 did also include a big service and brake fluid change so i think the top up of hydraulic pump would be about £400 approx.
As a matter of fact the pump was quoted + £900 + vat

 

[Annraoi]

Thanks guys this is all very helpful.

Yes - it is Frank Keane in Liffey Valley I am dealing with. They advised me that they are the only dealer in Ireland who are authorised, and have the capability, to carry out the repair work on the roof sections associated with the corrosion issue.

There is a 2 year warranty on the repair work they carried out but this does

 

[Annraoi]

There is a 2 year warranty on the repair work they carried out but they stated that this does not cover the hydraulic line in question.

Thanks Martin for the outline of the course of action you took - you are a braver man than many to tackle this task. VW confirmed that the hydraulic pump unit and the rams are functioning OK so I am assuming that they have checked and confirmed the hydraulic fluid level.

 

[WelshGas]

There is a 2 year warranty on the repair work they carried out but they stated that this does not cover the hydraulic line in question.

Thanks Martin for the outline of the course of action you took - you are a braver man than many to tackle this task. VW confirmed that the hydraulic pump unit and the rams are functioning OK so I am assuming that they have checked and confirmed the hydraulic fluid level.

Mmmmm. How did they check the fluid level without removing all the trim etc: to expose the reservoir?

 

[Annraoi]

Apologies WelshGas; I didn't explain the issue very well in previous post. During routine service the roof was lifted by the VW service guys and on lowering the right hand side failed to come down. After some lengthy trouble shooting a leak was identified on the right hand side and a break or perforation found on one of the hydraulic lines from the pump unit to the lifting ram. I have had limited access to my vehicle and so have not seen the issue first hand. I am assuming that these lines are stainless steel and so the failure must be due to mechanical damage as opposed to corrosion. Considering the routing through the roof and the extensive work required to replace one would expect that this is a non-serviceable item and so should be designed to last the usable life of the vehicle; if so then what has lead to this premature failure? Also I am asking myself if the leak the main issue at hand or is it masking some other issue?

I think a second opinion is a wise suggestion ; although I will need to do some investigating to see if there are other dealers in the country who are familiar with California's . .

Although conversion to a manual lifting roof is an option . . and eliminates potential issues with hydraulics in the future . . at the moment it is not my preferred approach.

It is frustrating that a relatively simple system has been made so unnecessarily complicated with poor design for access and maintenance.

I hope to get some photos tomorrow of the failed pipe section which may be helpful.

Cheerio

 

[Annraoi]

Mmmmm. How did they check the fluid level without removing all the trim etc: to expose the reservoir?

Yes - this is where the smoke and daggers come in . .

 

[motacyclist]

I am assuming that these lines are stainless steel and so the failure must be due to mechanical damage as opposed to corrosion.

Stainless steel can corrode if exposed to chlorides (eg salt). The corrosion takes the form of pitting rather than rusting like carbon steel. I had experience of this on a chemical works next to the sea where SS pipe lines perforated and subsequently had to be wrapped in Denso tape to prevent the salt laden air reaching them!

 

[westfalia]

Hi folks; although a new member I have my T5 California since 2012 and have had many an enjoyable trip at home and abroad - writing from Dublin.

I am seeking some guidance on an issue I am experiencing with the hydraulics on the elevating roof. Although I have read with interest the threads associated with issues experienced with the hydraulic control units and the elevating rams I have not found any reference to the hydraulic piping. My local VW dealer has advised that one of the hydraulic supply lines is perforated . .and leaking. . and will cost €7,500 (£6,500) to replace as it involves the removal of the fixed and elevating roof sections and replacement of a total of 56 parts in the process . .including the canvas roof.

I am completely shocked that such a minor component requires this level of intervention to replace. Have any of you experienced similar or are aware of an easier means to repair or replace?

Apologies for raising my woes and worries in my introduction . . and first thread!

Did the dealer manage to fix it or did you find out
what the problem was ??

 

[Eber123]

I thought about this during the last few days. To have such an expensive repair is scary.

If it would happen to me, I would ask for a written detailed quote of the work and checked this with a bigger VW dealer in Germany. It might be cheaper to drive to Germany and get the repair done there.

Best of luck. Eberhard

 

[2into1]

During routine service the roof was lifted by the VW service guys

Do we know why they were using the roof during a service (presumed oil/filters etc).

 

[Annraoi]

Did the dealer manage to fix it or did you find out
what the problem was ??

The fault has been traced to one of the hydraulic lines connecting the control unit to the hydraulic ram - driver side.

 

[flying banana]

I reckon any reputable hydraulic company could fix that

 

[Hotel_California]

I think the Dealership is having you on and basically does not want to undertake the work.
I enclose a Technical document that shows the roof components and position etc: I suggest you look for another Dealer who knows the California.

Thanks so much for sharing this tech document. As a mechanical design engineer I want to know how things work and how to fix them especially when 2,000miles from home! The California is a bit of black box as the average owner is (rightly) reliant on vw dealers, which usually seem to know less than the owners. Bit frustrated with the common reply on these forums being take it to the dealers.... Cheers!

 

[flying banana]

Thanks so much for sharing this tech document. As a mechanical design engineer I want to know how things work and how to fix them especially when 2,000miles from home! The California is a bit of black box as the average owner is (rightly) reliant on vw dealers, which usually seem to know less than the owners. Bit frustrated with the common reply on these forums being take it to the dealers.... Cheers!

Disagree with that statement. The forum might say that but I certainly dont go to the dealer with my issues . Obvs mh warranty is out. I would rather my balls were whipped with a knotted rope than trust a dealer to fix summat

 

[Hotel_California]

Disagree with that statement. The forum might say that but I certainly dont go to the dealer with my issues . Obvs mh warranty is out. I would rather my balls were whipped with a knotted rope than trust a dealer to fix summat

Sorry, I came across the tech document (linked from another thread) and didn’t read this thread. My comments where not in relation to this thread,

 

[WelshGas]

Disagree with that statement. The forum might say that but I certainly dont go to the dealer with my issues . Obvs mh warranty is out. I would rather my balls were whipped with a knotted rope than trust a dealer to fix summat

The Dealer more likely to oblige with the Former rather than the Latter.