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L

Lightning

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Ah yes, Teenagers.. The generation that bunked off school to demonstrate against us oldies who are responsible for damaging the environment and climate change.
Do you think all teenagers are the same then? There are some oldies who are not morons too, you may know even know some.
 
Amarillo

Amarillo

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Ah yes, Teenagers.. The generation that bunked off school to demonstrate against us oldies who are responsible for damaging the environment and climate change.
Which living generation(s) would you hold responsible for the rise in CO2 from 300 parts per million ~100 years ago to 400 ppm now?

Do you think that bunking off school for one day a week has been an effective way for one child to heighten the global population’s understanding of climate change?
 
WelshGas

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Do you think all teenagers are the same then? There are some oldies who are not morons too, you may know even know some.
Umm, you bought up the subject of Teenagers.
I was just commenting that Fly Camping seemed to be a rather apt description for the people who camp but definitely do leave a blot on the landscape.
 
WelshGas

WelshGas

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Which living generation(s) would you hold responsible for the rise in CO2 from 300 parts per million ~100 years ago to 400 ppm now?

Do you think that bunking off school for one day a week has been an effective way for one child to heighten the global population’s understanding of climate change?
There is no one blameless generation, unless you know differently, and no spreadsheets please.
 
Amarillo

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There is no one blameless generation, unless you know differently, and no spreadsheets please.
I think the younger generations shoulder less of the blame than older generations- and those of the younger generations trying to accelerate change even less.
 
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John Slater

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The term wildcamping does not apply to campervans and motorhomes in the Scottish Outdoor Access Code however responsibly you do it.
 
L

Lightning

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The term wildcamping does not apply to campervans and motorhomes in the Scottish Outdoor Access Code however responsibly you do it.
The parking section of the code applies, providing you park responsibly.
 
Digger

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The code does not allow parking to camp and does not give any right to take a vehicle onto any private land. As almost all land in Scotland is privately owned seems sensible to ask permission rather than risk causing aggro and bad feelings. It is when confrontation and arguing starts we all suffer. Stealth and good manners win. The right to roam has introduced a freedom with real responsibilities attached and penalties. It could also be taken away very easily if abused.
 
L

Lightning

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The code does not allow parking to camp and does not give any right to take a vehicle onto any private land. As almost all land in Scotland is privately owned seems sensible to ask permission rather than risk causing aggro and bad feelings. It is when confrontation and arguing starts we all suffer. Stealth and good manners win. The right to roam has introduced a freedom with real responsibilities attached and penalties. It could also be taken away very easily if abused.
This is what the code says.
Overnight stays in campervans and motorhomes
Access rights do not include motor vehicles and there is no specific guidance on campervans and motorhomes in the Scottish Outdoor Access Code. There is no legal right to park beside the road overnight, but there may be no objection to this in some instances - so extra care is needed.

Advice from Scottish Natural Heritage is as follows:

  • Managed caravan/camp sites should be used where possible. More information about campsites and caravan parks can be found on the Scottish Camping and VisitScotland websites, and at VisitScotland iCentres
  • Follow the Highway Code and observe any local guidance, including specific requests not to park overnight in particular places.
  • Follow the general guidance in the Scottish Outdoor Access Code: respect the interests of others, care for the environment and take responsibility for your own actions.
  • Follow the guidance in the Code on parking, taking care not to block forest, estate or farm entrances, and the guidance on litter and human waste. Only empty any chemical toilet waste in designated chemical waste areas.
 
Digger

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There is no legal right to park beside the road overnight as you point out. That says it all. SNH is only advisory and has no legal standing where a complaint arises. I am not arguing a point but stating the case that the legal side is one where we have to respect and recognise our responsibilities. nmtbs.
 
L

Lightning

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There is no legal right to park beside the road overnight as you point out. That says it all. SNH is only advisory and has no legal standing where a complaint arises. I am not arguing a point but stating the case that the legal side is one where we have to respect and recognise our responsibilities. nmtbs.
It is not illegal to park on the highway providing you are not causing an obstruction or on yellow lines etc.. It is also not illegal to sleep in your van. It is illegal to drive when tired. Furthermore there may be no objection to you parking beside the road as the code points out.
These communities also need to respect that people can legally park and sleep anywhere on the highway, they have no legal basis to object.
 
L

Lightning

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This is an FOI request made in Cornwall. The response is clear that they do not actually have the power to enforce any ban on people sleeping in vehicles that are not causing an obstruction.
 
flying banana

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It is not illegal to park on the highway providing you are not causing an obstruction or on yellow lines etc.. It is also not illegal to sleep in your van. It is illegal to drive when tired. Furthermore there may be no objection to you parking beside the road as the code points out.
These communities also need to respect that people can legally park and sleep anywhere on the highway, they have no legal basis to object.
Exactly. How do people think truckers get away with it. And I'm sure not all lorry drivers throw their bottles of 'truckers tizer' in the bushes but unfortunately a small minority of them do. I don't know why we are arguing about it. As for the nimbys saying it's not nimbyism it's interesting to note that the 3 people here that say don't go to Scotland are all from there. Best take our money elsewhere imo . I was thinking of heading up that way soon but i reckon my crisp 20s will spend easily enough elsewhere.
 
Herman

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Exactly. How do people think truckers get away with it. And I'm sure not all lorry drivers throw their bottles of 'truckers tizer' in the bushes but unfortunately a small minority of them do. I don't know why we are arguing about it. As for the nimbys saying it's not nimbyism it's interesting to note that the 3 people here that say don't go to Scotland are all from there. Best take our money elsewhere imo . I was thinking of heading up that way soon but i reckon my crisp 20s will spend easily enough elsewhere.
As one of the 3 people from Scotland saying don’t go there; I was caught south of the border when the Scottish lockdown rules were announced restricting travel to 5 miles for essential purposes only. Unlike Dominic Cummings I abided by the rules. When the rules were relaxed and the floodgates opened, I decided to stay where I am for the time-being. Incidentally, I have also kept away from Bournemouth beach.
 
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Graeme Ferguson

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My understanding from a research report I posted previously, is that they are unable to enforce the permit scheme, as the ban conflicts with the highways act, although the permit scheme which was very expensive to introduce is still active. In my view it is at least in part Nimbyism. Happy for visitors to stay on sites in the area, not happy for them not to.
 
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Graeme Ferguson

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My understanding from a research report I posted previously, is that they are unable to enforce the permit scheme, as the ban conflicts with the highways act, although the permit scheme which was very expensive to introduce is still active. In my view it is at least in part Nimbyism. Happy for visitors to stay on sites in the area, not happy for them not to.
The Highways Act does not apply to Scotland where the main legislation is the Roads (Scotland) Act. In some parts of the Highland Council area they have raised traffic orders (Road Traffic Act) that prevent overnight camping in certain lay-bys and there are a number of location where this is signed and includes the details of the traffic order. Just to further muddy the waters some of the NC500 is on trunk road and some is on local road so different Roads Authority and different use of traffic orders.

The terms now being used in Scotland is wild campers for those travelling the hills using their right to roam and dirty campers for all of the neds escaping to the country to get pissed and leave all their crap being
 
flying banana

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As one of the 3 people from Scotland saying don’t go there; I was caught south of the border when the Scottish lockdown rules were announced restricting travel to 5 miles for essential purposes only. Unlike Dominic Cummings I abided by the rules. When the rules were relaxed and the floodgates opened, I decided to stay where I am for the time-being. Incidentally, I have also kept away from Bournemouth beach.
It's ok. We aren't coming
 
L

Lightning

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The Highways Act does not apply to Scotland where the main legislation is the Roads (Scotland) Act. In some parts of the Highland Council area they have raised traffic orders (Road Traffic Act) that prevent overnight camping in certain lay-bys and there are a number of location where this is signed and includes the details of the traffic order. Just to further muddy the waters some of the NC500 is on trunk road and some is on local road so different Roads Authority and different use of traffic orders.

The terms now being used in Scotland is wild campers for those travelling the hills using their right to roam and dirty campers for all of the neds escaping to the country to get pissed and leave all their crap being
They are unable to enforce their scheme in Loch Lomond, as previously posted, and pasted below. For the same reasons they will be unable to enforce such a ban elsewhere in Scotland.
Also, the yellow ‘No Camping’ signs seen in many Scottish Lay-bys have been proven to be unlawful as they are normally not backed up by an order. The wild campers in the hills are also in the papers for leaving their rubbish behind, and lighting bonfires on the fells. In fact as they do not have on board toilets they must be worse than campervans. Most people are responsible, fine people with littering if they do, no matter what they are sleeping in.

The Loch Lomond permit scheme to manage wild camping is proving tricky and expensive to enforce. Somebody has performed a thorough analysis of the situation in the attached link, as there are proposals to introduce similar schemes in other areas in Scotland.
  • And, for reasons explained above, the Park has effectively had to abandon all attempts to ban the parking of campervans and caravans because of its misunderstanding of the relationship between the camping byelaw provisions in the 2003 Act and Road Traffic legislation.
The reason referred to is that you are allowed to sleep in your car for safety reasons to prevent tired driving.

parkswatchscotland.co.uk

Response to Scottish Parliament Petition 1751 to “Create no wild camp zones in Scotland” - parkswatchscotland
In September, the local SNP Councillor for North, West and Central Sutherland, Kirsteen Currie (see here), lodged a petition with the Scottish Parliament petitions Committee to create no wild camp zones in Scotland (see here). The petition was prompted by perceived concerns with the impact of...
parkswatchscotland.co.uk

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Digger

Digger

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They felt sorry for old Charles but then evicted him. As for Loch Lomond it is enforced and will continue to be so by police scotland. No one wants to stop tourist and visitors are welcome but there is a limit to capacity and too many disrespect the countryside. If you think dumping toilet waste is ok you are not on the welcome list.
 
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