Reverse polarity help

[Jenny Smith]

Im off to France on Friday and having checked a few reviews for the site I booked, I suspect they have reverse polarity. I have bought and adapted a two pin extension to plug into my euro plug, and have swapped over the live and neutral. My question is, does it actually damage the Cali if you don't swap it over? I understand everything will work, (albeit still be live when turned off) but does it actually damage the van/ battery charger etc or can you still use it as normal?

 

[Martin]

Hi Jenny, no damage will be done , however what we do to be on the safe side is turn the control panel off when you arrive at site and plug your tester in to the UK socket behind the passenger seat, then connect to the hook up, if it is reversed then unplug from hook up and change over live/neutral, if it says it is OK just carry on as normal.

You probably already have it but there is a handy guide in the downloads section.

http://www.vwcaliforniaclub.com/downloads/Reversed_Polarity.pdf

 

[Jenny Smith]

Thanks for the help.

 

[Andy]

Does the rcd inside the rear cupboard not trip on reversed polarity ??

 

[ChrisandPenney52]

No, it doesn't trip when the polarity is reversed.

Taking the discussion a step further ...

I have a 2008 Cali that has a continental plug, not a three pin. I use a polarity tester, but I must admit that I just plug my adaptor in upside down if polarity from the mains is reversed. This then shows up correctly on my polarity tester so any device I use inside the van is (a) earthed and (b) correct polarity.

The net effect of this is that everything is correct EXCEPT that the polarity is reversed downstream of the RCD. What I've read suggests that he RCD would still trip in these circumstances in the event of a fault and it doesn't care about reversed polarity.

My adapter is a continental plug to four UK gang, and is earthed.

Any electricians care to comment?

 

[spf]

I have to be honest, I am somewhat confused about the concern here. The article quite correctly describes a scenario that could happen in a household situation for example when changing light bulbs, which is clearly dangerous. It then goes on to extrapolate this to some campervans, and then it has somehow been mapped onto the California.

The Cali has intrinsically only a 12v system, so there is no risk when changing light bulbs etc. So we can ignore any of the systems except the 240v, unlike the household scenario. The only 240v access point, unless one is servicing the 240v electrics, whilst plugged in to the 240v! is from the single socket in the kitchen unit.

However, the circuit breaker for this is a dual pole modern rcd, not an elcb type, which will cut off both live and neutral when turned off or automatically in the case of a fault in just a few mS, far faster than any fuse. It does this independently of which way around the inlet supply comes in, and similarly no equipment plugged in will care either. An rcd simply measures the difference in current between the live and neutral and uses any difference to power the trip, as it is ac power, it is independent of the polarity.

So I fully understand the general concern for household, some caravans and some campers, which the source article quite correctly describes, but not how it relates to the California. Can anyone clarify?

 

[Andy]

There is an inbuilt battery charger that is activated when hookup is connected. Surely this will charge the batteries backwards & do damage if left running for any length of time.
Anything with a motor in it will run backwards.

Apart from the fact it is simply not good practice to use reversed polarity electrics any where.

 

[calikev]

I think if the van wiring developed a fault
It would be fine the problem is if your appliance
Develops a fault the fuse in the appliance
Will blow leaving the circuit live

 

[Martin]

I am assuming the battery charger on the Cali is AC input and DC output, so it should not do any damage if initially connected the wrong way round? I may be wrong :?

 

[Andy]

I am assuming the battery charger on the Cali is AC input and DC output, so it should not do any damage if initially connected the wrong way round? I may be wrong

You've obviously never seen jump leads connected back to front then ..... My father did it years ago on a tractor & the side blew off the battery, acid every where ! Needless to say I'm always very careful when connecting batteries !

 

[Californiaman]

I think most things including the van will be fine whilst the polarity is reversed. The issue comes that the earth is not correctly wired. Should a fault occur, the body of the van could become live. Also the power safety features of any devices plugged in may not work - fuses may not blow etc..

 

[m4rky]

It would seem that we have an adaptor that converts the hook up lead to a UK 3 pin plug for use when at home.

Thinking that through - Would it not be a good idea to have an adaptor for the hook up lead that converts it into a UK 3 pin socket?

That way you could plug your hook up lead into a foreign supply and then check it for polarity before plugging it into your Cali?

Oh copyright marky :rofl

 

[spf]

There is an inbuilt battery charger that is activated when hookup is connected. Surely this will charge the batteries backwards & do damage if left running for any length of time.
Anything with a motor in it will run backwards.

Apart from the fact it is simply not good practice to use reversed polarity electrics any where.

the inbuilt charger is ac powered, so itworks with either polarity.


Most of the world, except the uk, use mains plugs plugs which can be inserted either way around. As it makes no difference.

 

[spf]

I think most things including the van will be fine whilst the polarity is reversed. The issue comes that the earth is not correctly wired. Should a fault occur, the body of the van could become live. Also the power safety features of any devices plugged in may not work - fuses may not blow etc..

The earth connection remians in the centre, It is not affected. the rcd does not rely on the earth connection unlike the older elcb types.

I can think of an unusual sequence of events where a blown fuse could become dangerous, if the polarity later becomes incorrect, e.g when moving sites, however, there is an equally likely reverse sequence where the corrected polarity could become dangerous. IMHO, there is no net advantage to buying the polarity checker/reverser, BUT only for the CalifornIa, all other wiring that I have seen needs it.

 

[calikev]

Glad we got that sorted out

 

[calikev]

When you take your UK kettle or mains radio to Europe, you have a 50% chance of "normal" or "reversed" polarity. All of your appliances will work OK - reversed polarity will not harm them. But now let us imagine that you have a fault in your UK appliance - say the fuse blows - then with normal polarity the power is cut by the blown fuse before it reaches the appliance. If the polarity is reversed - then the fuse will still blow and cut the power - except that the power is cut on the way back out of the appliance. Then if you decided to investigate the fault, but without first unplugging, then the inside of the appliance is still live. This is potentially fatal - but requires you to open up an appliance without unplugging first.

 

[spf]

When you take your UK kettle or mains radio to Europe, you have a 50% chance of "normal" or "reversed" polarity. All of your appliances will work OK - reversed polarity will not harm them. But now let us imagine that you have a fault in your UK appliance - say the fuse blows - then with normal polarity the power is cut by the blown fuse before it reaches the appliance. If the polarity is reversed - then the fuse will still blow and cut the power - except that the power is cut on the way back out of the appliance. Then if you decided to investigate the fault, but without first unplugging, then the inside of the appliance is still live. This is potentially fatal - but requires you to open up an appliance without unplugging first.

Agreed, this was the unusual scenario that I was thinking of. However, even in this case, the rcd of the Califoria will trigger as soon as the neutral fault wire, which is now live, is plugged in to the mains, long before prying fingers can get in to dabble! in fact this is why most countries do not have a fuse in the appliance, and can thus have reversible plugs, as it really only protects the appliance, not the human being, which as you point out, fuses can make it more dangerous for people. Instead they rely on fast trip double pole fuse back at the fuse box.

 

[calikev]

Some really good points made. Many thanks