VAT and import duties

[WelshGas]

So is my understanding of this that any goods imported into the UK are essentially VAT free but must have duty paid on arrival?

Yes.

 

[WelshGas]

Ok so in my case I have bough an item from a UK website at a price shown in £ and inclusive of VAT.

The vendor then imports my item to me from Germany and I incur customs duty on top.

Next question. From who do I claim back the VAT/import duty as I’ve effectively paid twice?

I would have thought the vendor, they have priced the goods incorrectly if you have had to pay VAT on receipt as the price shown should have been ex VAT in the first place.

 

[Wongo]

Here is the nub of the problem

 

[soulstyledevon]

Ok so in my case I have bough an item from a UK website at a price shown in £ and inclusive of VAT.

The vendor then imports my item to me from Germany and I incur customs duty on top.

Next question. From who do I claim back the VAT/import duty as I’ve effectively paid twice?

I have a near identical situation.
I’ve purchased a Turbo Trainer via Zwift. £649.99. As far as I was concerned. I was buying from a British stockist/warehouse showing in stock ready for dispatch.
This was purchased on either 30/31st of December.

It’s currently stuck at the Port in Holland, with the following tracking message:

Jan 17 2021 05:23 pm
2021-01-17T17:23:00
Your package has been delayed due to an export gateway hold.
Eindhoven, Netherlands


I’ve contacted Zwift a few times and been unhappy with their response.
I’ve emailed today and asked for a definitive delivery date or I will cancel the order and do a credit card charge back as payment was made on the 31st December.

They have stated that there is a problem about a additional charge which the courier is making for collection of VAT.
Not sure how this works as goods were purchased/paid for before Brexit officially began.

 

[sidepod]

What a fookin mess. I’m fairly confident this will all get smoothed.
It’s not as if we didn’t have years to get this crap sorted before the big date!

 

[sidepod]

I guess you have the same options as myself. Either pay the extra duty and take delivery of the turbo then, once you have all the relevant paperwork/receipts etc, you can claim back what you need.

I guess I’m a little further down the road given that my item is already here in the UK.

Unfortunately the item I bought is a German brand so it will always need to be imported. Even if I got a refund I’d still be in the same boat. God only knows how long the refund process would take.

I’ve decided the simplest way is to pay the UPS guy and claim back.

 

[WelshGas]

Here is the nub of the problem
View attachment 72257

Very true

 

[GrumpyGranddad]

@GrumpyGranddad why have you disliked my post i'm only passing on a message i don't set the prices.

Sorry, not disliking your post and appreciate your just passing on the message. Just disliking the Brexit/Covid outcomes. No offence intended.

 

[sidepod]

I’ve only spent a few minutes investigating but I think this could be the method to reclaim VAT or Import duty.

How to apply for a repayment of import duty and VAT if you've overpaid (C285)

Find out which service to use for import declarations made on the Customs Declaration Service (CDS) or Customs Handling of Import and Export Freight (CHIEF).

www.gov.uk

 

[soulstyledevon]

Hmm.
Looks fairly straightforward...

Think the easiest solution is to send the goods back and get a refund.
It’s more a want than a need. I can always have a look for the product on my next Euro trip.

There's a need for lot more diligence when buying things over the internet going forward.

Quite simply, it may create gaps in the market for British companies to build/create products here especially as products will increase in price by some margin...

 

[Amarillo]

What is the duty free limit for a shopping trip to the EU?

Is there a business opportunity to set up a click and collect, or mailbox type warehouse in Calais?

 

[soulstyledevon]

@Amarillo i think the real issue is courier companies now charging an admin fee.
What I can’t get an answer for, is what is the fee...?
VAT will always be required. So nothing new there.
But it seems an additional fee, plucked out of thin air by couriers taking advantage of the situation.

 

[Amarillo]

@Amarillo i think the real issue is courier companies now charging an admin fee.
What I can’t get an answer for, is what is the fee...?
VAT will always be required. So nothing new there.
But it seems an additional fee, plucked out of thin air by couriers taking advantage of the situation.

If it is as simple as that, market forces will eventually take over. People won’t order without knowing the admin fee in advance, and courier companies won’t deliver unless they can be fairly sure they can deliver successfully.

But if huge chunks of money are due on expensive items like treadmills, what is to stop someone ordering for delivery to a mailbox in Calais and collecting it in person if duty free allowance or non-UK VAT will permit.

 

[Velma's Dad]

But if huge chunks of money are due on expensive items like treadmills, what is to stop someone ordering for delivery to a mailbox in Calais and collecting it in person if duty free allowance or non-UK VAT will permit.

Well you'd then have to declare the goods at entry to the UK and pay the necessary duties and VAT. It doesn't matter if it comes over on a courier's van or in the back of your van, it's still an import.

Of course if it's a Cali accessory like a shelf kit, there would be little in practice to stop someone fitting it to their van in Calais before driving home. I've no idea what the HMRC rules are on declaring modifications done to a vehicle while overseas.

 

[WelshGas]

If it is as simple as that, market forces will eventually take over. People won’t order without knowing the admin fee in advance, and courier companies won’t deliver unless they can be fairly sure they can deliver successfully.

But if huge chunks of money are due on expensive items like treadmills, what is to stop someone ordering for delivery to a mailbox in Calais and collecting it in person if duty free allowance or non-UK VAT will permit.

Any item purchased in the EU would have EU VAT added. You would request a VAT receipt and at the port of exit there would be a designated place where you would present your receipt and passport and be refunded the EU VAT and then on arrival at UK Customs declare the item and depending on any personal Duty Free allowance pay the required Customs Duty/UK Vat.

 

[Velma's Dad]

If it is as simple as that, market forces will eventually take over. People won’t order without knowing the admin fee in advance, and courier companies won’t deliver unless they can be fairly sure they can deliver successfully.

I think that may take a while actually, at least when buying from smaller specialist businesses on the continent.

MANY(!) years ago I ran a UK-based business that supplied customers mostly within the UK/EU but a small proportion outside. Smallish scale but still shipping several thousand consignments a week. When negotiating our courier contracts we were almost 100% focused on lowest average cost (the price the customer was charged for shipping was not determined by the cost to us - shipping was a profit line). We wanted to deal with as few couriers as possible, just one ideally.

Our non-EU customers often complained that they'd been hit with admin, clearance, duty and other charges at their end. They usually blamed us - fair enough but it frankly wasn't worthwhile for us to try to sort it out, we just charged what we charged and if some of the non-EU customers went elsewhere that was that. There's no point jumping through hoops to retain customers that aren't profitable to service.

An EU-based small e-commerce business is going to contract with the courier that gives it the best deal on the bulk of its shipments, rather than the one that charges the lowest admin rates on occasional shipments ex-EU.

But anyway we'll have to wait and see.

 

[Bellcrew]

I think that may take a while actually, at least when buying from smaller specialist businesses on the continent.

MANY(!) years ago I ran a UK-based business that supplied customers mostly within the UK/EU but a small proportion outside. Smallish scale but still shipping several thousand consignments a week. When negotiating our courier contracts we were almost 100% focused on lowest average cost (the price the customer was charged for shipping was not determined by the cost to us - shipping was a profit line). We wanted to deal with as few couriers as possible, just one ideally.

Our non-EU customers often complained that they'd been hit with admin, clearance, duty and other charges at their end. They usually blamed us - fair enough but it frankly wasn't worthwhile for us to try to sort it out, we just charged what we charged and if some of the non-EU customers went elsewhere that was that. There's no point jumping through hoops to retain customers that aren't profitable to service.

An EU-based small e-commerce business is going to contract with the courier that gives it the best deal on the bulk of its shipments, rather than the one that charges the lowest admin rates on occasional shipments ex-EU.

But anyway we'll have to wait and see.

It is very early days, no one was certain what the deal would be until Christmas eve. There have been a number of side agreements on other things since then so anything is possible in the future.
I see the Greeks are offering a Golden Visa if you buy a property there for over 250,000 euros, as for the Irish granny route, practically half the population of the UK would qualify for EU citizenship.
As Jonesy would say don't panic.

 

[sidepod]

Good point. Just save up and bring it all back after each Eurotrip..........................or just make more Eurotrips!

I did speak with a HMRC oppo this morning and she did confirm there was some money due back to me. What did raise concerns with her was the fact the transaction took place on Dec 30th.

I did find a paragraph on one of the Gov.uk web pages stating exactly this, if transactions took place prior to 01/01/21 (Year Zero), then goods should be unaffected.

Anyway. Friday, 14-01. Beer time.

 

[sidepod]

@Amarillo i think the real issue is courier companies now charging an admin fee.
What I can’t get an answer for, is what is the fee...?
VAT will always be required. So nothing new there.
But it seems an additional fee, plucked out of thin air by couriers taking advantage of the situation.

And just for the extra kick in the nads, the VAT goes on top of the whole lot. As for the couriers taking the wee wee, can you blame them? It's the same as Eurotunnel charging for pets!

Referendum anyone?

 

[Wongo]

And just for the extra kick in the nads, the VAT goes on top of the whole lot. As for the couriers taking the wee wee, can you blame them? It's the same as Eurotunnel charging for pets!

Referendum anyone?

Yes

 

[Velma's Dad]

Referendum anyone?

Blimey that first beer went down quick.

 

[2into1]

Is the following correct?

UK imports more from 'europe' than we export to them.
Say we import £10 for every £8 we export to keep the maths simple (before vat values).
Pre Brexit, Europe collected 20% vat (£2) on the £10 we imported.
Pre Brexit, UK collected 20% vat (£1.60) on the £8 we exported.
Post Brexit, is the situation reversed? For every £1.60 we would have collected, do we now collect £2?
Assuming that's right and the trade imbalance remains the same, that's quite a tidy bonus for Rishi Sunack to collect?

No political points aiming to be scored (before Amarillo reports the post). I'm just checking my logic, and may have made a fool of myself. I blame French wine.

 

[Wongo]

Is the following correct?

UK imports more from 'europe' than we export to them.
Say we import £10 for every £8 we export to keep the maths simple (before vat values).
Pre Brexit, Europe collected 20% vat (£2) on the £10 we imported.
Pre Brexit, UK collected 20% vat (£1.60) on the £8 we exported.
Post Brexit, is the situation reversed? For every £1.60 we would have collected, do we now collect £2?
Assuming that's right and the trade imbalance remains the same, that's quite a tidy bonus for Rishi Sunack to collect?

No political points aiming to be scored (before Amarillo reports the post). I'm just checking my logic, and may have made a fool of myself. I blame French wine.

In theory if import levels remain the same which is unlikely due to Customs & handling aggro, delays and additional carriage aggro, that is why regardless of politics Customs Unions boost trade.

 

[Bellcrew]

In theory if import levels remain the same which is unlikely due to Customs & handling aggro, delays and additional carriage aggro, that is why regardless of politics Customs Unions boost trade.

Total world trade in billions of euros by the EU, amazing hey.

Rank	Country/district	Total trade
1	United States	615
2	China	559
3	United Kingdom	511

 

[Wongo]

Yes including many things such as invisible trade (Finance etc) but everyone trys to negotiate trade deals to remove trade barriers, we are putting them up, it makes no sense, regardless of being in favour or not of leaving the EU.