VW T5 euro 5 issues

[TripleBee]

Hi,

I am new to this forum althought I drive my California for about 9 years already.
I have a problem, and would like to know if some of you can help me out.
In 2010 I bought a brand new VW California T5.1 (facelift). It has the CCHA engine (commonrail) with 140 hp.
Last year, France was introducing the Crit'Air vignette. Assuming I had a Euro 5 engine, I was surprised to see on my registration card that it stated EURO 4. I contacted the instancy, called DIV in Belgium, that registrates cars in Belgium. They told me that VW apparently made a mistake with the preregistration. Then I contacted D'Ieteren, they import VW in Belgium, and they could confirm that my car has a EURO 5 engine, but they did not respond to my question who was going to set this all straight.
Then I contacted the ministry of transportation, and they could only confirm that I had to set things straight.
The next step was to inform VW with my problem. They just told me that the approval office in Belgium apparently made a mistake.
On the other hand I found a British California in France that also had the wrong Crit'Air badge (euro 4), and another Belgian California that I had checked at the DIV, that also was registered as EURO 4.

Now my question to all the owners of VW T5.1 Transporter, Caravelle, Multivan, California of 2010 is: can you please check your registration card, and check your EURO classification. If you have a facelift T5, I guess only from 2010 (WV_ZZZ7HZ A H ______) specially with the same engine code like mine: CCHA, the 140 hp, it might be the wrong classification.
If someone still has the original, or a copy of the pre registration form (aanvraag tot inschrijving voertuig), I would be glad to see it together with the full VIN number, so I can send it all to VW to get a rectification.

I show you a picture of my registration with the wrong EURO classification.

I hope some of you can help me out. Maybe I can even help you out to get your wrong registration rectified?

Best Regards,
Benjamin Bisschop

 

[WelshGas]

Hi,

I am new to this forum althought I drive my California for about 9 years already.
I have a problem, and would like to know if some of you can help me out.
In 2010 I bought a brand new VW California T5.1 (facelift). It has the CCHA engine (commonrail) with 140 hp.
Last year, France was introducing the Crit'Air vignette. Assuming I had a Euro 5 engine, I was surprised to see on my registration card that it stated EURO 4. I contacted the instancy, called DIV in Belgium, that registrates cars in Belgium. They told me that VW apparently made a mistake with the preregistration. Then I contacted D'Ieteren, they import VW in Belgium, and they could confirm that my car has a EURO 5 engine, but they did not respond to my question who was going to set this all straight.
Then I contacted the ministry of transportation, and they could only confirm that I had to set things straight.
The next step was to inform VW with my problem. They just told me that the approval office in Belgium apparently made a mistake.
On the other hand I found a British California in France that also had the wrong Crit'Air badge (euro 4), and another Belgian California that I had checked at the DIV, that also was registered as EURO 4.

Now my question to all the owners of VW T5.1 Transporter, Caravelle, Multivan, California of 2010 is: can you please check your registration card, and check your EURO classification. If you have a facelift T5, I guess only from 2010 (WV_ZZZ7HZ A H ______) specially with the same engine code like mine: CCHA, the 140 hp, it might be the wrong classification.
If someone still has the original, or a copy of the pre registration form (aanvraag tot inschrijving voertuig), I would be glad to see it together with the full VIN number, so I can send it all to VW to get a rectification.

I show you a picture of my registration with the wrong EURO classification.

I hope some of you can help me out. Maybe I can even help you out to get your wrong registration rectified?

Best Regards,
Benjamin Bisschop

View attachment 43336

The problem you have is Not related to the engine in your vehicle But which Euro Standard it was tested too.
The Euro 5 standard was introduced from January 2011.
Vehicles first registered before that date would have been tested to Euro 4 Standard, But might have been capable of passing Euro 5 but would not have been tested to that standard.
Modern engines could match a number of standards depending on the tuning which is all down to the programming of the Engine Management Computer, so same engine different standards/power/fuel economy and hence emissions.

 

[TripleBee]

Hi, thank you for the response.
However, in the certificate of conformity I find under section 46.1 exhaust emissions: 715/2007*692/2008B
That code means it complies to EURO 5a.
My car was produced 25/11/2009.
"The technical requirements have taken effect in two stages, Euro 5 emission limits came into
effect for new type approvals on 1st September 2009 (and new registrations on 1st January
2011)"
So, EURO 5 was already introduced on september 1st 2009, but it was only mandatory from 20011.
VW already confirmed that my car meets the EURO 5, and every document I have, including the prospectus from october 2009.
I post some documents to prove this.

 

[B J G]

The problem you have is Not related to the engine in your vehicle But which Euro Standard it was tested too.
The Euro 5 standard was introduced from January 2011.
Vehicles first registered before that date would have been tested to Euro 4 Standard, But might have been capable of passing Euro 5 but would not have been tested to that standard.
Modern engines could match a number of standards depending on the tuning which is all down to the programming of the Engine Management Computer, so same engine different standards/power/fuel economy and hence emissions.

View attachment 43353

You have quoted the date that the specific Euro Standard must be complied with. Manufacturers produced vehicles complying with future standards prior to the legal requirement.

 

[WelshGas]

You have quoted the date that the specific Euro Standard must be complied with. Manufacturers produced vehicles complying with future standards prior to the legal requirement.

They may comply, as I stated, but they may not be officially tested to the new standard. There is no requirement for the Manufacturer to do that until the Implementation Date. Also, as I stated, the difference between one standard and the next could just be a change in software whilst still using the same mechanical components.

Also, but I might be wrong, the Type Approval Date is for NEW models and the Implementation Date is for ALL vehicles on 1st Registration, old and new models.
Now, what is the definition of a NEW Model?

 

[WelshGas]

Hi, thank you for the response.
However, in the certificate of conformity I find under section 46.1 exhaust emissions: 715/2007*692/2008B
That code means it complies to EURO 5a.
My car was produced 25/11/2009.
"The technical requirements have taken effect in two stages, Euro 5 emission limits came into
effect for new type approvals on 1st September 2009 (and new registrations on 1st January
2011)"
So, EURO 5 was already introduced on september 1st 2009, but it was only mandatory from 20011.
VW already confirmed that my car meets the EURO 5, and every document I have, including the prospectus from october 2009.
I post some documents to prove this.

View attachment 43363

View attachment 43364

View attachment 43365

View attachment 43366

If you have Official Confirmation from VW that your vehicle is Euro 5 classification then what more does your countries Authority need to change the Category on your registration Document?

 

[TripleBee]

They will charge me with extra costs to do that, while I have nothing to do with the wrong EURO standard. The only fault I made was to buy this vehicle, not the classification of EURO standard.

Now I am only looking for people who have the same engine from the same year of fabrication with also EURO 4, while it must be EURO 5.
I hoped that I might find some here on this forum.

 

[AlanC]

I have a 2010 Cali with the CFCA engine, 180BHP/135 Kw. It was registered in the UK in March 2010.

This is a Euro 5 engine and I have a French Critair 5 certificate for it together with the matching German Umweltplakette 4 (Euro 4 engines and above) certificate.

Might help.

Alan

 

[WelshGas]

I have a 2010 Cali with the CFCA engine, 180BHP/135 Kw. It was registered in the UK in March 2010.

This is a Euro 5 engine and I have a French Critair 5 certificate for it together with the matching German Umweltplakette 4 (Euro 4 engines and above) certificate.

Might help.

Alan

Don’t you mean the French Critair 2 certificate.

 

[B J G]

They may comply, as I stated, but they may not be officially tested to the new standard. There is no requirement for the Manufacturer to do that until the Implementation Date. Also, as I stated, the difference between one standard and the next could just be a change in software whilst still using the same mechanical components.

Also, but I might be wrong, the Type Approval Date is for NEW models and the Implementation Date is for ALL vehicles on 1st Registration, old and new models.
Now, what is the definition of a NEW Model?

Over the years with various implementations of Euro 'X' implementations HGV's were given the VED benefit of a substantial annual reduction for vehicles that were to the forthcoming new standard if registered before the dates that you quoted. In UK that is.
The point being that Manufacturers produce vehicles to a standard and this must be confirmed by meeting the test criteria. Complying is theoretical and in this thread issue would have been Euro 4 from the Factory whereas it is documented as Euro 5. The change from Euro 4 to 5 was a major step in pollution terms and mere software tweaks couldn't attain this. Manufacturers have to produce the forthcoming Euro emission standard some months before the official start date of that emission level. Supply chain of components, assembly, delivery, dealer prep and dealer stock must all be ready for that day. Old stock has to have time to be cleared out.
That would be the reason for this vehicle being to Euro 5 standard but as it was registered during the Euro 4 period both the dealer and the Belgian vehicle registration authority failed to do this correctly.

Probably some Euro T6's with Euro 5 on their documentation for the same reason.

I would doubt that anyone in the UK has this problem, but...

 

[TripleBee]

I have a 2010 Cali with the CFCA engine, 180BHP/135 Kw. It was registered in the UK in March 2010.

This is a Euro 5 engine and I have a French Critair 5 certificate for it together with the matching German Umweltplakette 4 (Euro 4 engines and above) certificate.

Might help.

Alan

Hi Alan,

Thank you for your response. And indeed, you mean the Crit'Air badge 2, not 5. Good to see that not all early facelifts suffer the same problem.

 

[TripleBee]

Over the years with various implementations of Euro 'X' implementations HGV's were given the VED benefit of a substantial annual reduction for vehicles that were to the forthcoming new standard if registered before the dates that you quoted. In UK that is.
The point being that Manufacturers produce vehicles to a standard and this must be confirmed by meeting the test criteria. Complying is theoretical and in this thread issue would have been Euro 4 from the Factory whereas it is documented as Euro 5. The change from Euro 4 to 5 was a major step in pollution terms and mere software tweaks couldn't attain this. Manufacturers have to produce the forthcoming Euro emission standard some months before the official start date of that emission level. Supply chain of components, assembly, delivery, dealer prep and dealer stock must all be ready for that day. Old stock has to have time to be cleared out.
That would be the reason for this vehicle being to Euro 5 standard but as it was registered during the Euro 4 period both the dealer and the Belgian vehicle registration authority failed to do this correctly.

Probably some Euro T6's with Euro 5 on their documentation for the same reason.

I would doubt that anyone in the UK has this problem, but...

Good that you mention that you doubt that anyone in the UK has this problem.
Last year I was in France, and I parked up next to a British California.
On the front windscreen I found a French Crit'Air badge with number 3, meaning: EURO 4...

I checked the VIN number and it has the same engine of mine: CCHA 140 hp.

Knowing that this engine is almost one on one the engine from AUDI, already with the EGR valve and cooler in one, this is the EURO 5 engine. The first common rail diesel engines from AUDI, in 2008 (A4 8K) had the EGR valve and cooler separately, and they were EURO 4.
You could have EURO 4 engines with and without particle filter, but they are both EURO 4. The engines with the combined EGR valve and cooler were/are EURO 5.

So now I only want to know if there are any other CCHA engines that are registered as EURO 4.
It is good to know that the 180 hp biturbo engine is registered as EURO 5, because they are basically the same engine, only with double turbo and some other adjustments.

 

[AlanC]

Don’t you mean the French Critair 2 certificate.

View attachment 43375
View attachment 43374

Sorry, yes CritAir Classe 2.

 

[TripleBee]

I'll bump my thread as no one seems to have a 2010 140 hp T5.1?

 

[Whistler]

I'll bump my thread as no one seems to have a 2010 140 hp T5.1?

We have a 2010 140 T5.1.
The V5 states Euro5. Registered Early Sep 10

Sent from my HUAWEI VNS-L31 using Tapatalk

 

[rod_vw]

You could examine the vehicle options codes in the front of driver's handbook or on the sticker under the dash. If it has the code 7MJ then the vehicle was produced to Euro 5 plus. There is a website that will enable you to decode all of the codes on the Options Sticker .

I would suggest if there is a code confirming to you that the vehicle is Euro 5 then you should go to your dealer and request a 'Car Data Print' this will give you the complete official production specification of your vehicle as it left the factory. It will be printed on a Volkswagen headed document complete with enquiry date and time and includes the engine type, transmission type VIN etc. in the same document which I would have thought should be sufficient for your authorities to change the Euro standard on their records. This is nothing to do with your Belgian importers, it's the ex-factory specification.

If your dealer will not provide the Car Data Print then I may be able to obtain one here in the UK but it will of course be in English where one from your Belgian dealer should be in your own language.

The 7MJ code exists on my 2013 T5 and on my 2013 T6 (which is an early T6 that is Euro 5).

 

[TripleBee]

We have a 2010 140 T5.1.
The V5 states Euro5. Registered Early Sep 10

Sent from my HUAWEI VNS-L31 using Tapatalk

Thanks for the reply. But you van must be MY 2011 as it is registered past june/july 2010. You can tell by the vin number WV2ZZZ7HZ B H xxx xxx.

 

[TripleBee]

You could examine the vehicle options codes in the front of driver's handbook or on the sticker under the dash. If it has the code 7MJ then the vehicle was produced to Euro 5 plus. There is a website that will enable you to decode all of the codes on the Options Sticker .

I would suggest if there is a code confirming to you that the vehicle is Euro 5 then you should go to your dealer and request a 'Car Data Print' this will give you the complete official production specification of your vehicle as it left the factory. It will be printed on a Volkswagen headed document complete with enquiry date and time and includes the engine type, transmission type VIN etc. in the same document which I would have thought should be sufficient for your authorities to change the Euro standard on their records. This is nothing to do with your Belgian importers, it's the ex-factory specification.

If your dealer will not provide the Car Data Print then I may be able to obtain one here in the UK but it will of course be in English where one from your Belgian dealer should be in your own language.

The 7MJ code exists on my 2013 T5 and on my 2013 T6 (which is an early T6 that is Euro 5).

I already have official documents, but to get everything in order, I will have to pay, because of all the bureaucracy.

 

[rod_vw]

Join the club, England is just the same and as I often have personal dealings with our DVLA (Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency) I know about the bureaucracy here!

If your importers have admitted it was their error can't you persuade them to pay for you to get the documents corrected?

 

[TripleBee]

DIV in Belgium says it is VW that preregistred the car wrong.
D'Ieteren (importer) just sent me a letter that states my car is EURO 5, but didn't answer who was going to pay and rectify it.
Volkswagen claimed some instance in Belgium apparently made a mistake.

The registration was filled out online, but I don't have the original papers anymore.
I found another California in Belgium that was registered as EURO 4 too (confirmed by DIV).
I found a British California in France, that was registered as EURO 4 too.
So it is definately not Belgium that made a mistake, but wrong information from VW itself.
So that is why I need some more T5's who are registered as EURO 4 to reply that to VW so they can sort it out.