VW California T5 ONLY Roof Corrosion - General Discussion

[Nottledim]

Not sure if this has loaded but the elevating roof corrosion seems to have identical characteristics to that of the front section.

I'm going to South Hereford on Friday to get the fault registered and will get it resolved when the front section is done.

A

 

[Nottledim]

Here's another view taken this morning.

 

[SootyBob]

Apologies for not responding to the forum email sooner and a HUGE thank you for doing a great deal of work highlighting the issue and working on our collective part. I was at the Bristol Balloon Festival and started chatting to a stand which had a 2010 Cali who hadn't heard of the problem. On checking we found the same corrosion all over the roof.

To answer the questions in the email, I have an early 2009 Grey Cali I bought in Inverness; I now live in Bristol. Heritage Bristol happened to ring me, as they usually do once a month and I managed to turn their sales push into a roof inspection carried out 8 Jul 14, titled COROSION (sic) ON ELEVATING ROOF AND FRONT WIND DEFLECTOR - HAVE APPLIED 6 YEAR WARRANTY TO THIS, PAINT DEPTHS TAKEN. I was told to expect contact then from VW which might take a while due to the scale of the problem.

I haven't looked for any further corrosion since my first assessment, but due to the scale of the problem I don't think I would be able to recognise anything new.

Having now read the email which indicates I should have heard from VW within a few days, I'll now be contacting them having heard nothing for over 1 a month.

I've had no contact with VW Customer Services to date, just Heritage Bristol.

 

[SootyBob]

Previous post was roof photos. This post has deflector photos

 

[SootyBob]

Last couple of photos

 

[777111]

Have I got this wrong or are people getting confused?

Corrosion on Front Panel - VW have identified the problem and have a fix in place both for existing Cali's and on the production line (issue exists for owners with Cali's over 6 years old not being covered)

Corrosion on the Main Elevating Roof - VW have not accepted this as a fault at this point and no documented resolution from VW is in place (bodyshop have spoken about zinc content in the paint and fitting a new seal).

I would be nervous about having the main roof repair until VW have identified the root cause and remedial action...

Mark,

In respect of the main roof panel I too am in the same position - I am not allowing remedial work to be done until until I know what it is AND that it is going to be a permanent fix.
We have a 6 year warranty on all roof parts, a ridiculous queue and I cant see why I as a customer should be further disadvantaged by VW's manufacturing incompetence.

Fortunately for me my front panel appears to have been one of the new modified parts fitted from July 2013 onwards and has no apparent corrosion.

It has irritated me from the outset that VW refuse to be up front with cause, affected vehicles or a clear an unambiguous remedial action plan.
Thankfully there are hundreds of us that are unwilling to tolerate this and some forum members that have taken up the initiative on all our behalves.

 

[Tangle Foot]

Our 2009 has gone into Leicester Van Centre today to have the severe front end wobble addressed.... whilst there I've requested a survey is c/out on my corroded roof and panel. Let's hope this goes smoothly?!

 

[calikev]

I hope you have better luck than I did

 

[Tangle Foot]

I hope you have better luck than I did

With Leicester VW? Or with my van?

Take it yours has been rejected?

 

[calikev]

No I meant VW leicester .I had my pictures taken by a salesman at Kettering he promised to send them to the warranty guy I heard nothing.I then took it to Listers in Coventry it was inspected at 11.00 o'clock in the morning I got a phone call at 3 its been approved. I think VW Leicester are more interested in sales than aftercare

 

[Tangle Foot]

The guy I bought the van off said exactly the same thing!

Just that little bit too far to Coventry

 

[DavidofHook]

If the corrosion over the windscreen is caused by dissimilar metals why is the repair not replacing it with steel rather than aluminium? No galvanic action would then take place.
Or am I being dense here?

I hope that I have put this on the right post.

 

[shambly]

My understanding is that whilst galvanic action was initially believed to be the root cause - and hence the changes to the gasket in March 2013 production - it turned out that the bigger problem was with paint itself adhering to the aluminium panel due to the copper content of the aluminium. Hence the recomposition of that pressing in late 2013 / early 2014. With the aluminium correctly protected, and the new gasket, galvanic action should be minimised...

Hence the need to replace the front panel rather than refinish it.

I am assured by VW that the main roof pressing does not have the same compositional issue.

 

[DavidofHook]

Thanks Shambly, maybe if they had used a lump of steel there would never have been a problem in the first place.

 

[Woody135]

Hi there all,
We own a 56 plate Cali and soon after VW had established cause of problem had a corrosion survey completed by our local VW dealer (Breeze VW). Damage almost entirely limited to front panel, especially at either end where water sits in a sealing groove that has no drain feature. Heard nothing back so thought a visit was overdue. Called in today to find that they had raised the issue with VW Customer care - Commercial, and had been sitting on the results since 9/7. Not impressed.
Reply from VW CC was a flat rejection of any Warranty work as more than 6 years old. As far as Breeze are aware only 1 Cali > 6 years old has been accepted for warrantee work. This one had been repaired under original 3 year warrantee, so this will be a re-work of the first repair.
This situation is particularly galling I have been monitoring VWs glacial progress on this issue for a number of years - unaware of the 15 year perforation warranty, so could have made a claim much earlier!
Between the three south coast VW dealers they are aware of some 90 claims in op with estimated costs of £2.5-3.0K per vehicle.
As other contributors have stated we are not impressed with current situation as we now have a vehicle with corrosion damage, and no obvious route forward. Apart from monitoring situation with others in a similar predicament, only immediate address is to
1. See what they say on part exchange and watch the sales staff have a punch up with the Warranty staff or
2. Go into dealers at the weekend and sit in the Cali demo and discuss issue with potential buyers. I wonder how many sales I could pour cold water on before they took some action?

Only advice Breeze could offer was to wait until VW had established extent of problem (potentially 100% of production) and then see whether they will relax their 6 year deadline.

I am now awaiting a call from technical dept within VW CC to discuss the issue in greater detail and mention in passing that over the last 20 years I have been the owner of 9 vehicles from the VAG production line, with hope that it might add some weight to my bargaining position. Any flying pigs passing by ??

 

[Stu]

Only advice Breeze could offer was to wait until VW had established extent of problem (potentially 100% of production) and then see whether they will relax their 6 year deadline.

I don't think this is going to help you as it is only going to be a further delay.

It's a bitter pill to swallow, and probably one you shouldn't be swallowing to be honest.

 

[gooseyj]

would suggest all Cali owners invest in a bottle of this

Hi gooseyd - Thank you for your purchase. Your order will be dispatched to 7 .

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ACF-50 Anti Corrosion 950ml & Spray Bottle Caravan Scooter Motorcycle Bike Car
Google it, looks like it will slow the corrosion down till I save up £5k on my 6+ cali to replace parts not fit for the purpose they were meant for.

 

[SusiBus]

Thank you to all the other people who are taking the cause forward regarding roof corrosion but could I please ask you to make sure that your facts are correct when making statements ie the repairs were originally done under the 3 year paintwork warranty (later extended to six years), NOT the 12 year bodywork warranty which states perforation by rust forming on the inside (cavity) of the car body and causing holes in the sheet metal.

However, the corrosion on the front panel is starting from within a box section on the front portion of the roof, but is not actually perforating the metal. It has now been recognised by VW as a manufacturing defect by the fact that they have now altered the construction of this part of the roof.

One thing that still concerns me with regard to the repair of the elevating section of the roof is that the root cause has not been eradicated ie the rubber seal has not been modified and still contains a metal band which is a contributing factor to the problem of electrochemical corrosion. By not modifying the seal, corrosion can reoccur. I have heard that during the repair the replacement unmodified seal is being stuck to the elevating roof which will make checking for early signs of corrosion impossible in the future. Can anyone confirm this?

If you intend writing to VW, please note that Mr Alex Smith who was the Director of VW Commercial Vehicles has now left the company and his replacement (name unknown) is not in post until September.

We are waiting for a reply to an email about roof corrosion which was sent on the 7th July. Chasing this up yet again, we were informed yesterday that it has been referred to the Press and Legal Dept before any information is released to go on the Forum. This shows that they are taking the actions of the Forum seriously but doesn’t seem to make them hurry to address our concerns.

 

[robo]

Carl zu Dohna has been appointed as Brand Director for Volkswagen Commercial Vehicles in the UK, with effect from 1 September 2014. He succeeds Alex Smith, who assumes the position of Brand Director for Volkswagen Passenger Cars.

https://www.volkswagen-vans.co.uk/about ... -director/

rob

 

[Stu]

Would this be a little naughty :mrgreen:

 

[777111]

Would this be a little naughty :mrgreen:

Good one - try a "friend" request next.... :evil:

 

[primrose]

I've been checking my roof over the last 2 weeks and have yet to find evidence of rust. I will continue to check and if any is found I'll be sure to post. Thank you for drawing this to my attention.

Fingers crossed though I don't have to post....

 

[Andy]

I've been checking my roof over the last 2 weeks and have yet to find evidence of rust. I will continue to check and if any is found I'll be sure to post. Thank you for drawing this to my attention.

Fingers crossed though I don't have to post....

You will not find rust on an aluminium panel. You are looking for bubbling of the paint.

Please all be careful & be accurate in your statements, especially if you contact VW as requested by SusiBus a few posts up.

 

[PatH]

As a bystander and potentially interested buyer of a secondhand California the situation is very confusing. I would not be put off one that has the problem and the agreed fix in place but end of the day it's hassle. You want to buy something to keep and use, not be driving around in something that will inevitably have to go in for a 2 week repair (which people still don't know whether is adequate, for long term ownership).

As an aside, and perhaps food for thought for owners of > 6 year old Calis, in the States a class action was raised against Porsche, in particular the Boxster engine for 2001 - 2005, as it was shown that the intermediate shaft bearing was a design fault. Through a forum I think they collected about 200 owners who had the problem and were prepared to take it to court, they won the case and reached a settlement, with Porsche paying compensation (meeting the cost) to all owners who had experienced the problem and had forked out to get it fixed. It basically resulted in total engine failure and a repair bill of between 5k to 9K.

The court case was only recent, so for Porsche to admit the problem and pay out big money to owners of cars > 10 years old shows that if enough people get together, there is maybe hope?

I know we are not as litigious here in Europe compared to the States, but the six year rule just seems arbitrary to me, and I'm sure if enough people got involved it would swing things in the favour of all T5 Cali owners.

I'd be fed up as, 6+ years for an expensive and high quality vehicle is nothing really, so I hope there is a groundswell of opinion and someone prepared to fight it out with VW.

 

[snowy55]

Finally had a peek under the seal on our 30th Jan 2014 build Cali SE. So this vehicle is only 7 months old.

Pulled back about 1ft to see whats going on.

Here are 3 pictures of the same area and as you can see,multiple blistering of the paint and the circles in the third picture highlight what looks like red rust stains that must be from the steel in the seal. No point in revealing anymore.

Can't see any corrosion on the front panel, I didn't know it went that far down the side, past the back of the drivers door.

The horizontal lines under the seal look like an imprint of the inside of the seal as if it was put on before the paint had gone hard / cured or whatever they call it on modern paints.







Not surprised by what I have found but still disappointed.Some people think we must be insane spending that amount of money on a vehicle, perhaps they are right!

Not in a rush to report it until they have admitted there is a fault, found the cause and can therefore make a proper repair as I am sure that using a different primer/undercoat and then putting the same old type of seal on will not cure it for very long and all the people having them repaired now will soon be going through it all again.

The waiting time to get these repairs carried out is also making matters worse.

If a roof showing light blistering of the paint like mine could be repaired now then I feel sure you stand a better chance of a long term cure then letting the corrosion get hold and get deeper into the metal. If it penetrates deep into the metal you can't see, with the naked eye, how much metal to remove and by the look of some of the previous photo's in this thread it must be going a quarter of the way through the panel. So is the panel being ground back and then filled?

I think VW need to have a serious look at this problem and get expert advice from say the aircraft industry to solve this problem.

The warranty on both sections of roof also needs to be looked at, 6 years is not enough and will not give any confidence to the long term reputation of these vehicles or VW. It needs to be longer and that date has got to start from when the repair is carried out and not the date of registration, as I am sure this problem is undermining the reputation not only of California's but the whole VW brand.