04S Bellow review poll.

[lohr500]

Can you also add a small hole by the stitching on the off side (drivers) side window stitching. Apparently there are quite a few of these defects. Having mine replace as I type.

View attachment 122723

Option added.

 

[OxonCalifornia]

Mine has been in rain for a day with no issues. Several heavy showers with wind and a couple of hours of drizzle (and some sleet!). Bellows production date 18/12/23.

That's Really encouraging for later produced Bellows

 

[lohr500]

That's Really encouraging for later produced Bellows

Unfortunately, mine are dated 10/01/24 and they leak
Van collected 1st week of March.

And we have reports of vans collected later than mine which leak. I suspect the bellows on those will also be later than 10/01/24.

My gut feel still says the root cause of the leakage is either thread size/type or needle size.
All the problems appear to be stitch/seam related.

Unless a complete manufacturing process such as adding a waterproof interlayer or treating with a waterproofing agent has been omitted (seems unlikely with modern QC methods), then the focus must surely be on the interface between the stitching holes and the thread running through them.

I could be completely wrong and at the end of the day VW and their manufacturer/s need to figure out how they could get it so wrong yet again.

 

[Corradobrit]

I wonder if the temper

(and some sleet!).

Would be interesting to add this as another variable. Termperature. If low enough could the stretchiness of the fabric be reduced and therefore make the points of entrance smaller reducing or eliminating water infiltration? What was the ambient temp when you stress tested the bellows?

 

[lohr500]

Can you also add a small hole by the stitching on the off side (drivers) side window stitching. Apparently there are quite a few of these defects. Having mine replace as I type.

View attachment 122723

I have a couple of small holes like that in our bellows, but before I treated the leaking seams/stitching with Aquatex, I never saw any leakage through the pin holes.

Apart from the pin holes, did you suffer any leakage?

I agree, they shouldn't be there. I just hope your replacement bellows set don't leak.

 

[scottk]

I wonder if the temper

Would be interesting to add this as another variable. Termperature. If low enough could the stretchiness of the fabric be reduced and therefore make the points of entrance smaller reducing or eliminating water infiltration? What was the ambient temp when you stress tested the bellows?

It was cold. About 6 deg through the day and freezing at night. The day time temp with windchill was around 3-4 deg C.

 

[JuanVecino2023]

I wonder if the temper

Would be interesting to add this as another variable. Termperature. If low enough could the stretchiness of the fabric be reduced and therefore make the points of entrance smaller reducing or eliminating water infiltration? What was the ambient temp when you stress tested the bellows?

I concur with this.

Our first weekend 1 March was sub zero overnight. Lashing rain, no issues.

Second weekend with howling rain in Rhosilli and 1 degree overnight fine.

I noted wet bedding upstairs on the third trip when temperatures were 8 C overnight.

Think it’s time to talk!

 

[Swislon]

Ocean delivered in January 2024. Just been tested by Breeze and they accept it is leaking and needs replacing. No white tag in mine when delivered. PIA

 

[lohr500]

Ocean delivered in January 2024. Just been tested by Breeze and they accept it is leaking and needs replacing. No white tag in mine when delivered. PIA

Sorry to hear.
Did Breeze suggest waiting for a replacement or are they proposing to fit one straight away?

 

[lohr500]

An update on the scoring and also to remind anyone who hasn't done so already to cast your vote, or to change your vote if your circumstances have changed..

Also, please vote on this poll if your bellows are 04S manufactured after 9th November 2023, even if you have already voted on the other poll.

33 with leaks.
15 with no leaks.
9 not been out in the rain yet.

No significant change from the previous summary. 69% with leaks after being used in the rain.

 

[Swislon]

Sorry to hear.
Did Breeze suggest waiting for a replacement or are they proposing to fit one straight away?

They are suggesting waiting until there is a definitive solution from VW and have a list of all customers who are needing a replacement. Mine is leaking through the front zips which is apparently unusual!

 

[Ged1625]

I have a couple of small holes like that in our bellows, but before I treated the leaking seams/stitching with Aquatex, I never saw any leakage through the pin holes.

Apart from the pin holes, did you suffer any leakage?

I agree, they shouldn't be there. I just hope your replacement bellows set don't leak.

I did not test to see if the bellows leaked through the pin hole. There were a few minor issues with my van that needed rework so they changed the bellows at the same time.

 

[Annie Camping]

Haven’t voted as we have 04S bellows manufactured pre November. Think 10.10.23. No leakages in persistent rain for over 24 hours.

 

[lohr500]

Latest summary :

37 with leaks.
14 with no leaks.
7 not been out in the rain yet.

Failure rate based on responses to the poll is now at 73% for bellows that have been used in the rain.

The fact that the failure rate has increased since the previous summary does not surprise me.

I'm watching the main Leaking Bellows thread with interest to see how many reports of leaking 05S we see.

 

[Kevin5658]

I think I have added to the poll. Picked up Cali 5 weeks ago,first time in light rain, after 4 hours the seam about 10 inches up, there was water beading on seam , dripping inside. NOT HAPPY Put topper on , have booked the van in on 3rd June for 2 days to investigate problem.

 

[OxonCalifornia]

I think I have added to the poll. Picked up Cali 5 weeks ago,first time in light rain, after 4 hours the seam about 10 inches up, there was water beading on seam , dripping inside. NOT HAPPY Put topper on , have booked the van in on 3rd June for 2 days to investigate problem.

O4S or O5S bellows?

 

[Kevin5658]

O4S dated 05/02/24

 

[lohr500]

I think I have added to the poll. Picked up Cali 5 weeks ago,first time in light rain, after 4 hours the seam about 10 inches up, there was water beading on seam , dripping inside. NOT HAPPY Put topper on , have booked the van in on 3rd June for 2 days to investigate problem.

Sorry to hear you also have leaks, but equally sorry to say I am not surprised.
Did you take some photos? These may help if you get any pushback from the dealer.

The trouble as I see it, is that there is still not enough evidence to convince me that the latest 05S version is robust and fit for purpose. I think we have seen one or two reported failures already on the 05S version and they have only just become available.

I'm not in any rush to get 05S ones fitted on my Cali and intend to sit on the sidelines until we get more feedback from owners with the latest version.

In fact, if the Aquatex treatment continues to work as well as it has done so far, I don't think I will be pushing for a replacement at all.

 

[Kevin5658]

I am still away, when I get back I will go and speak to the dealer before it goes in for 2 days. Yes, I have photos & yes I do think it’s going to be a fight, as the salesman did suggest that they are not supposed to be waterproof & they should be put down in heavy rain as stated in the manual. As i said before, this was light rain & had to put the topper on. I had no problems with MY18 Cali.

 

[lohr500]

I think the poll served its purpose and was very helpful in confirming that the leaking bellows saga was not fully resolved by the release of the 04S version. (Or it would seem totally resolved with the latest 05S iteration).

A big thank you to everyone who cast a vote.

I've set the poll to close for voting in 1 hours time as the time has come to stop bellowing and close the roof on this poll!!

 

[Muffutd]

I think the poll served its purpose and was very helpful in confirming that the leaking bellows saga was not fully resolved by the release of the 04S version. (Or it would seem totally resolved with the latest 05S iteration).

A big thank you to everyone who cast a vote.

I've set the poll to close for voting in 1 hours time as the time has come to stop bellowing and close the roof on this poll!!

Thanks for what you did for us all

 

[Top Diner]

Unfortunately I can't edit the poll title.
For clarity I am discussing 04S bellows manufactured after 9th November 2023.

On behalf of all of those affected, I'm wanting to build a picture on the performance of the latest 04S bellows fitted after 9th November 2023, based on members' real life experience since collecting their Cali's fitted with these bellows.


Please only take part in the poll if you have 04S A bellows and please pick the poll response that is the closest match to your situation.

For those of us that are affected by the situation, I think the results will help in any discussions with VW.

Thanks

Very late to the party as I have just collected my new Cali and to my disappointment have noticed it has 04S bellows but grey on outside and cream on inside. I have not tested the bellows in the rain but will do so. I notice “Adrian” is mentioned in this thread. Apologies for my newbie inexperience but who is Adrian? It does sound from reading the thread and others on this subject that there is potentially a serious design fault with the bellows. As such they could be designated as “not fit for purpose” and as such my understanding of UK law is that VW have no choice but to replace them, preferably via a Vehicle Recall procedure.

 

[Cavvy]

Picked up my new Cali last week and have noted 04s bellows, not yet tested but will report back when I do

 

[lohr500]

Very late to the party as I have just collected my new Cali and to my disappointment have noticed it has 04S bellows but grey on outside and cream on inside. I have not tested the bellows in the rain but will do so. I notice “Adrian” is mentioned in this thread. Apologies for my newbie inexperience but who is Adrian? It does sound from reading the thread and others on this subject that there is potentially a serious design fault with the bellows. As such they could be designated as “not fit for purpose” and as such my understanding of UK law is that VW have no choice but to replace them, preferably via a Vehicle Recall procedure.

Adrian was the person within the VW UK Executive Office who was handling complaints about the leaking bellows. He has since retired and Rhiannon has taken over this responsibility.

My understanding though is that if you find your bellows do leak, then the 1st port of call should be your dealer.

From reading numerous posts on the forum it would seem that some dealers are happy to accept photo/video evidence of the leaks and will submit a warranty claim to VW based on the evidence provided.

Others will insist you take the Cali to them for tem to carry out their own leak test.

The failures are well known so if you do have a leaking set, there "shouldn't" be any issues in getting them replaced.

I would suggest you test them ASAP by leaving them open in a decent downpour with light winds blowing the rain onto the front and side panels. Or by drizzling a continuous mist of water on them from a hose pipe fitted with an adjustable spay gun.

With my 04S bellows, the areas that leaked were the horizontal and curved seams around the window zips on the front and side panels and the vertical seams joining the side panels to the front and rear panels. Look closely at these areas when you do your testing, but check the rest of the seams/joins as well.

If you are unhappy with them, you could even consider rejecting the van completely, which other have done. The sooner you reach this decision the better. I can't remember what the rules are on rejection but someone may be able to chip in and help.

If you have read through the posts on leaking bellows, you may have picked up that I had one of the early vans with factory fitted 04S bellows and decided to apply Aquatex to stop the leaks rather than opting for replacements at the time. This on the basis that I had little confidence in the replacements being any better. As we are now on version 06S, I think I made the correct decision. Should they start leaking badly before the warranty runs out, I will push for a replacement when the time comes.

In my case, VW wouldn't officially sanction the use of Aquatex, but neither did they say that any subsequent warranty would be rejected.

 

[Top Diner]

Adrian was the person within the VW UK Executive Office who was handling complaints about the leaking bellows. He has since retired and Rhiannon has taken over this responsibility.

My understanding though is that if you find your bellows do leak, then the 1st port of call should be your dealer.

From reading numerous posts on the forum it would seem that some dealers are happy to accept photo/video evidence of the leaks and will submit a warranty claim to VW based on the evidence provided.

Others will insist you take the Cali to them for tem to carry out their own leak test.

The failures are well known so if you do have a leaking set, there "shouldn't" be any issues in getting them replaced.

I would suggest you test them ASAP by leaving them open in a decent downpour with light winds blowing the rain onto the front and side panels. Or by drizzling a continuous mist of water on them from a hose pipe fitted with an adjustable spay gun.

With my 04S bellows, the areas that leaked were the horizontal and curved seams around the window zips on the front and side panels and the vertical seams joining the side panels to the front and rear panels. Look closely at these areas when you do your testing, but check the rest of the seams/joins as well.

If you are unhappy with them, you could even consider rejecting the van completely, which other have done. The sooner you reach this decision the better. I can't remember what the rules are on rejection but someone may be able to chip in and help.

If you have read through the posts on leaking bellows, you may have picked up that I had one of the early vans with factory fitted 04S bellows and decided to apply Aquatex to stop the leaks rather than opting for replacements at the time. This on the basis that I had little confidence in the replacements being any better. As we are now on version 06S, I think I made the correct decision. Should they start leaking badly before the warranty runs out, I will push for a replacement when the time comes.

In my case, VW wouldn't officially sanction the use of Aquatex, but neither did they say that any subsequent warranty would be rejected.

Thanks. I will follow this advice and report back. J.